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STeP-IN SUMMIT 2018
August 30, 2018, Karnataka, India
STeP-IN SUMMIT 2018
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Panel Discussions - Interviewing Testers in the Age of AI
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About the talk


About speakers

Himansha Tyagi
Software Tester at Moolya Software Testing Pvt Ltd.
Pradeep Soundararajan
Co–founder at Appachhi & Founder at Moolya
Srinivas Padmanabhuni
CTO at CityMandi
Rahul Mirakhur
Director - QA at Atimi Software
Ajay Balamurugadas
AVP-Delivery at Qapitol QA Services Pvt. Ltd.
Ashutosh Trivedi
Co-Founder at Spext
Saritha Route
Global Test Automation Leader at IBM
Ramit Manohar Kaul
Vice President Delivery at Moolya Pvt Ltd.

I am on a mission to build a software testing start-up that solves fundamental unaddressed pain points in testing. 15+ years of experience as a hands on tester, independent test consultant and now a businessman.

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Dr. Srinivas Padmanabhuni was awarded the title of "Eminent Engineer" by the prestigious and renowned organization "Institution of Engineers" (IEI). The award was given to Dr. Srinivas Padmanabhuni in recognition of his experience and contributions to the profession of Computers at the 32nd Annual convention of IEI His vast experience in the computing field, including marquee area of Artificial Intelligence (AI), brings a unique blend of academic, research and industry orientation, a rare combination. He has been the past president of ACM India, the top professional organization of computing professionals. Srinivas Padmanabhuni is a Ph.D. in Artificial Intelligence. He is the chief Mentor for Tarah technologies an AI consulting company through which he does marquee training and strategic consulting work in AI. Srinivas Padmanabhuni cofounded CityMandi.com a next generation AI enabled smart B2B startup in Food Tech. He is also a Governance Board member of Totalstart. an entrepreneurship development organization. He specializes in areas of software engineering,AI and Machine Learning. Earlier, he was a Principal Research Scientist and Associate Vice President at Infosys where he overlooked the university innovation ecosystem, alongside research and innovation group in Infosys Labs.

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Ashutosh is a serial entrepreneur and has built startups with deep Artificial Intelligent technology. He is currently Co-Founder and CTO of Spext, a Silicon Valley based startup which is bringing power of AI to media by making it more smart, intelligent and interactive. He has been doing research and building products in AI space for last 6 years and is one of the most sought after expert in this filed in India. His research work had been published in leading IEEE Journal and he has been an active open source contributor notably in Apache Spark MLlib. Ashutosh has passion for teaching and shares his knowledge through blogs, open source conferences and meetups.

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So how do you find the interviewing so far? All of us have gone through the experiences of going to interviews. We are on the other side of table and I've often wondered if we sort of switch the sides. See, if I have a question and in my eyes, the other person is not performing. What if I switch the table, and the same question is asked, for me, what? I passed the test. So, entertaining of this is a very important aspects of violin in the conference as we keep talking about Advanced Tech and advanced this. And yeah, and blockchain and agile and this and that, and we often

forget the fundamentals. 2226 Paramount seen in the last couple of years, how the firm is evolving. It's ready to experiment, take the risks, we see sometimes magician's coming in, we see stand-up comedians coming in so that our lord of experiments going on. And there's this idea of. So you'll never see such Arrangement usually, because you see we tried to put now debate back in panel discussion. We have lot of these nodding heads. People said they seem to agree on everything nobody

wants to take that risk. So as a foreign we reached out to pradeep sleeps on the legend. So he's a man of ideas that man how to put the bed back into our location. So he said that they'll let there be a group debate. So you see the chair arrangement? So you're going to see two groups of panelists on the seemingly opposite side of the agenda. So there's going to be one set of panelists. Who are the interviewer at is one set of panelists, who are the interviewees. And I'm going to get them from space once they're in because I don't want to be in the stage while

this is going on, and I just hope and I request everybody to be honest. Absolutely honest, because we are amongst friends, select speaker, heart out. So for interview is especially if it's going to be more of a role-play. So they need to not only empathize about themselves but the other the plight of interviewees and similarly, same as the case for interviews, what they go through when for hiring one person, they have to talk 200 engine is today. So so you see. It's not an easy side of the story. For either of the site and put air into it, put ml into it, put all this Advanced Tech to

water. The advancements in interviews, which should be happening there. Botellas. So, so when other exceptions with, with all humility, I'm trying to take his, they would not be any introductions today. Okay? So so don't expect those long. Why did the introductions for everybody? Most of these places that need no introduction. Are you have the agenda with you? You check about their work. These are the people who are known by their work. So I'll start announcing the names before I get down from the stage leaves on Dragon. On the interviewer side,

on the interview East Side. Srinivasan Cinemas padmanabhuni. We can continue clapping in the middle of the cell. So the left hand side, we can interviews can be seated. On the right hand side interviewees can be seated. Zohan. Maheswar as an interview as an interviewee? Cinemas Kulkarni as interview and call as interview. Come to you also. So, there's a part of the panel, which is missing on stage in that panel, is you. So, let's try to make it fast so that we can extend the final end to all this eating, right to the back benches. I don't know why. Don't you come

home? Please, thank you. So we get started. So at this point, I would like to invite two people from two people from each side, okay? To make an opening statement, representing the group. So you'll start with the side which I empathize morbid, and that the interviewees site. So so please Volunteer. Anyone could please take up, I would like to request that any statement with you, make him find it to 1 and 1/2 minutes 2 minutes max. Okay, really quickly. There is no objective assessment when I'm part of a game, but I'm on the other side of the table giving an interview.

I don't know how I can do demonstrative capability of what I have against the matter qualities, I can be very good in speaking. I can be great in my I can be very smart looking very handsome but I don't know how I can demonstrate what I know. I don't know how my videos of skills will be checked in the in a fast-changing thing. So if my communication is more has more British than you know, I said my coding skills or anyting how. I don't know if you have the interview at himself and

think of where does Moringa ML and everything but we're our Innovations in hiding and interviews. I'd like to start as interview question. I didn't either your guy. Why do people start questioning Supposed to bring in a driverless car, that's a future ex-wife. The Fabulous car. Car. who do you protect I think it's the norm in the future baby talking about. Asking the question picture. I stopped up. Opposed. You're off to develop. Play Mystic 80% volume on 20%.

Thank you. Make an opening statement volunteer from the interview site being from the background of a I can definitely answer your questions to the interview interview. Recite if I empathize from their point of view, you know, there's different kind of testing right. One is functional and which is mostly getting automated. And the kind of things which are, which you are talkin are exceptional cases. Which I think even the developer wants to avoid not just a tester or even the company overall everybody involved in that

project ones to avoid that. So that's not a question to the testers really. That's a question to whether we want a i to take decisions at that critical moment or whether we want to hybrid system right now. Because a, I can be something which, which gives You know, you can, you can make intelligent machines by giving them decision-making power, but there are certain places where I will never give decision-making power where humanity is involved. So that's the point where I think it's not a question for the testers, so I can

validate your question for that. The second thing is so can you I have a theme song. What would be changed the state of school wrestling? Tell Me A Star is Born. Loving the public is faster. Are you scared? I will do the best. I wouldn't be looking at. Important. Thank you. So guys, do you feel we're playing too safe here? To save to collate. Okay, so okay, so let's see you if you do, how do we add spice? So let's make it 1 to 1. So can I request Evancho to put a challenge

to open challenge? So I think if I'm interview, like if you're going to bring me so it should be on my testing skills. That's what I feel like I don't know about much about life sciences, but currently in the Life Sciences. So I am into it and I'm older because I have tasted so I'm not from a background tester. So if you're testing me for my testing skills, I think so bad that even the interview is like an idiot. Trying to break the ice District. and that person is awesome, pretty eyes but also for the one next to us right now, if you have to change

it, As an industrial and let's talk about what are the challenges that that the interviewees face is being affected. How is this going to change? And it has been our responsibility to defend. So we have Okay. Okay. Okay, okay, just Nishant, can you please spell it? Show shoulder chewbaru Buffy, please. So in the, so when we say that we want to ruin that the age of a learned skill up so that he can be ready for the interview if you see that state. Now, the people are struggling or like to write very good automation tester. So

how do bees Caleb? And how do you think that the change will be there for the engineers to basically be ready for the interviews related to the systems and Adamant. They are spending billions of God. A minority. What's the matter? The child. To pick up folding related skills and put pudding in it. So I think that's good. Thank you. nothing, you know, I just Programming. And the testers have blown up in the programming and add value. And the biggest problem that I have had even has an interview as an interviewee. Who is that

guy still? If the job description says that we need a job. All the delegates inserted into the resume. So I do you want to do whatever it is that you want to say something about Earth are two people on the battle who didn't get a chance to speak so far questions. Can I answer? So what did you mean? But it's not able to either demonstrate or convey the message, my question to the entry analyst jobs and why can't you play AI to the resumes and the job profiles to the all the portals and figure out the right candidate, their self. And then why do you need to have an interview?

Thank you. So, so who would you like to read this? I think that is always welcome. How do I get people to adopt a little bit? I think why you think? Make a call. I haven't. I don't know something to bring up that experience in that you presented to. Why do you think that is happening and, you know something I think I think, you know, starting with your point good tester. When was the last time you have seen in a TV, require a good tester? Not disturb good tester. Have you ever ridden a nice job description? We require a good tester. Okay, so you get you an answer why we don't are not

getting good testers because you're not asking for good testers. You're just asking for one point. Coming to you pretty. I'm not specifically talking about any organization, there are exceptions, but you look at the Jetties today. 3 years of experience required, a person should be able to should be able to swim. Should be able to breathe underwater. Should be able to should be able to do should be on top of it person. Should be able to not have a 3. How is that? What are we

doing? Different from any man? Anita jobs. Okay, so, where where I was trying to lead you to this. There are three fundamental things that, you know, can be given into your try to find a job the process behind it. And finally the interview itself My question is very simple, have the put, any fundamental changes to the process. It is still a person who selects majority doesn't know any of the difference between Java and JavaScript are when it comes to human prices in interviews. It is still I like you and you're a lot of people

who say 5 minutes and we select a guy & Final still a question and answer thing but it has not demonstrated the capability of the person sitting right across the table. While they're still a question and answer. I just want to I just want to add a point to it for programmers. There's a lot of a platform where they prove themselves like Heckler than right there. So many places where they prove themselves why there's no such place for testers. What is that? That have never been tested, you know, across the capabilities and why is there? No,

there is a Greek, there's a Twist to the Palace Station. Okay. So you see your ring roleplay. So you suddenly became interviewer although you have pain on the sides of interviewee and you suddenly started behaving like your interviewees and biting people are going to swap positions. Okay so you want to be the interviewee interviewer, please one more, one more pair, please. One more. All right. So, let's see how the game changes. Okay, so it was a recent question asked from this side of the table, you're

on that side now. You can answer that as well. So how about why? Such a platform does not exist for testers. So you're on that site, why didn't you create such a platform so far? What are you talkin about? So still in the movie Hangover. Each one's different. My experience in last. Maybe 5-10 years in three times, why everything too if I was better than the one of the pattern that came out is in all history interviews, The argument was like, okay I wanted

to do this and did not like my answer as a personality type and the biases, the interviewers can we would like to be in my painting of last 15 years? I have drinks, test cases, and all that. So that if you are arguing with that interview, as you as a human suppress, your own biases, Army you applied to the wrong job. You you, you knowing yourself as as the argument eighth of Indian. You should have chosen the right companies to apply to today. I think we spread out as

it's like a pamphlet to be and I think over time maybe the pressure that makes great sense. But I want to work with Do you think I resemble that I quoted was from three different companies? People interviewed me different kind of background, can we have official argument from the interview? you're so pretty Barbie, not looking for bold encourages testers diamond ring by saying, Football encourages testers who can speak to the customers people, because that person is not enough. It also tells

the Cure culture that they want people who will just listen to what they want. What what we know the business at the organization to hire for the courage and the boldness, they want people to speak up. You got a point. This would be the last pair of connotation on stage so that we can sort of move to the extended panel. So so, so the the first and foremost, the way people speak yourself, okay? We will actually get to know that, okay? But I know people who

are soft, but we need to do certain, you know, different kinds of interviews to do a walking interview that our company's to do on the floor interview that are companies who do in a different kinds of. I think, if we take the interview out of a room, okay? That's when, you know, you don't let them in the natural abilities of like, how, how, how do you handle the situation and leave it? Like, for example, what I'm what I like about, you know, some of the Practical example, if you have to

drive a car and that is still somebody who will see how you handle the traffic situation, that is how we are actually supposed to happen. And it is coming to our ability to assist, somebody based on our experience with you, if we have to assist people on you, no different than what your skillset, the interview discussion cannot be the same discussion us. Everything, you know, about job interview, okay? So we need to identify two or three qualities. That is absolutely critical for us and focus on those. The ones I

technically, then we have to move to the root word. How does this person communicate with the others? How is this person handling? Okay, thank you. I love you. All right, so just to add to that. These answers are all great. That sounds great. But right now out there, this is not how the world is working, and I've been working in this industry. The last 20 years, this is not how it was working today. There are few in there are spots that are these supernovas. But gently

in the space there's this dark matter, right? So you can fight fight that. However every one of us has a power of hearing this kind of dogs and changing themselves just a little bit. I think it needs time so yeah, I know that's awesome. Interviewers It's not because of that, I wanted to Mike. Okay, I wanted to tell you that there are a lot of you know, Heather qaqa heads over here if they make up their mind today, then the other industry can change their mind.

Because this reminded me of a conversation, I was having with that dark matter and questions like what's the difference between bi-weekly and Sanity testing? What's the difference between quality assurance and quality control? If it is, well, I Believe In by, but he's a lot, so that's okay. A question to all of you are going to be three questions. What is difference between verification and validation? You don't want to answer that, that's okay what is difference between?

Flu A and Q C. So now what is the difference between verification and Are there tests to spend? How do you flush a toilet? So you see, we saw an unsafe part of this conversation in a safe part? Do you have unsafe questions to the interviewee? Interviewer. Alright, okay, just speak. What do you think that you are there for improving a person? Can I get the question like that? How do you decide the eligibility of an interviewer? What is the credentials certification? What is 20 into decimal? He's also qualified, right? So that's one of the biggest challenges we have

is that you just pick up one engine are Elite in Orlando. Cannot go into this, 20 people today, right? And you're not even prepared for it, so that that's one of the deep end. So, just wanted the question, is it generally comes through experience dumb luck or seniority. Gently do the three, most common reasons why you get into the other side of the table. And if you keep That comes later, right? You don't lie are in jail in smaller firms. You are entering even before you are a manager and if you do it long enough to manage to say this is great, I can save my time, let him keep doing it. And

after few, as you become that manager and recursive, we have people interviewer so that they feel good about themselves. And hence they want to retain them. So, that is, that is how most of the interviewers are born. And, and, and, you know, at this point I think an interviewer needs to be a good student of the craft and should be able to assess. Will this person help me, learn better in my job. Will this person help me solve the problem faster than the job? Even though I may not know. So I can go get. That is how I supposed to be gone

but that's not the right now is to quickly Cheryl so that it's very easy to direct discussion at somebody else. I actually reached one of the larger organization I was working for and I asked this question about myself. How do you know I'm the right interviews? Where is it raining stormy? How do you know that? I'm not getting the wrong people in for your organization for years later? Also that never happened. Okay, so that's the state, that's the same qaqc question and all those things. So we talk a lot of big buzz words on stage

or in a conference. But we go back to the same dark matter as we have another question and would you like to address the next question, please? So, that more and more people can talk to the panel. Is that, okay? My question doesn't mean to offend any of the interview panel, but it's a serious, for a guy who is going for an interview and the person is looking in Google and asking questions, why does the guy other guy wants to be in? The Google are not answer to the question. I'm just

like you. It may be touching the sky to the person who is interviewing, you can ask, how many bricks are there in this world. He got the answer in the, Google he can ask. If I answered 48. So interview should be fair enough. I mean to say, Someone is that. Google Play. You want to talk to me? Google. 116. to say that this is, Give me the project and tomorrow really a team member. But that is all, there is a bond. Who got the job. So so so you see you have a tee time scope of conversation.

Yeah, I have a few patients on one for the interview visa and how is the job description? And he's cool that you're introduced to work on a day-to-day basis as accurate as a resume is regionally, get Having, you know, when both sides of the table, listen to that site. Or on the side there is no Silver Bullet in which you can identify a candidate but the candidate is fit for that particular job or not. You just have to identify whether the person is Even if you have, you know, that's why I'm going to step to, you know,

even if you have a dirty, you cannot cover everything. In an interview, typically has more a funeral when you go inside an interview and start discussing with the person. That is where you have to Showcase your skills. I have done it going to, you know, my weekend hobby, was to go and do interviews. I had to get them 38 Tools in my resume, I'm talking about, you know, 2007-8. I just used to you. I was not married. I was not hooked up. So the only way to make somebody's weekend bad creative writing on both parties late.

So when writing job, descriptions people on the outside, they get creative. And when writing resume, 16 Pages for Tavares. I don't know who real world by the way. Bible Scottish my Christmas to the interviewers. First of all, I find that agility is not practice across hiring number one. We're talking about identity in engineering department and other functions. Why? There's no identity in hiring. When you drop a resume, you get a response. Number one second. Somebody was talking about my

introduction into spinning resumes to What is the kind of attitude interviewers have these days? They look at the technical abilities. Only They don't have a full rounded interviewing process. I feel that adults in the way, introduce a connected today because I believe. So I'll just say this technocrats are becoming managers. They don't they lacked some of this soft skills that interviewing shouldn't have why interviewers are not having the ability to find out the attitude and aptitude of the person instead of

looking at. But do you know, Java? Whether you know, python Nobody has got fired for doing planet. It's such a pleasure. Discovering good people in Auto Parkway. Why do you? What questions are valid? Yeah. And what are you at? And what you just said is what I actually experienced when I give the first interview, I was expecting this to happen but this this is a kind of feeling sweetheart, when I had the same experience, what you're talking about, it's not about Technologies. It's about another part. Is it it's not that the wastage of time just of interviewee just imagine a

person who has to sit and do nothing to lose in a day on a weekend. Right. One person comes for that Saturday, not hooked up does not as not married, 45 minutes and I'll be there in 5 minutes to conclude and couple of things to put together before that. I'm sorry and I are sorry no more questions running out of time and One more teeth and conversation, the wonderful fellow coffee of questions directed at interview so far. So you'll have to park all the questions.

I know this is getting interesting. So question, last question from the audience for interviews, this is the question for interview. 5 years down the line, you're going to write a check. And y'all going to select an interviewee. What is he look like? And you still say that I'm not going to write a line saying that he needs a Java and it's an AI Amazon. How do I need a person short that person will be there for an 1 year in your company help for this. Again coming back to the kids. Today started out with the 20% cases, which are

the what I call the Corner cases, I think the ability of any tester will be in the future decided by how thorough, or how comprehensive. Identifying this 20% cases, it does not matter because it is a science technology engineering where you have to expect. So people believe me so hard because when we have an accident scenario, offered a police car with ghosts and hits a truck, which are the same color as the sky color. Identify this corner cases. I think that is going to be critical in the future because all accidents of AI systems are

going to happen in those Corner 5%. What, what is the Jerry going out of context? Different technology. Different situations and ask him to come up and analyze the situation and given direction of that or find the Jenny has to be approved by the HR head. So that's not happened to, you can come up with water. One final thing. If you want, one one last Savino. It is imperfect. We know both sides. Now, it's not a perfect world. It's easy to sit on interview Eastside and blame

interviews. It's easy to sit as an interview and blame the interviews. Okay, so the purpose of this conversation have okay, was not the blame game. It was to put all these blames as a transparent things. I technically don't have it in front of all of us. So, some of the other side of the people, from interviewers perspective, one word of, what would you look for in an interview? One word, one word on superheroes. It's a hard question. I'd like to pass on the mic. One thing, one thing that you look in an interview,

Easy intelligence in Telugu. Honesty intelligence intelligence, I think ability to learn new things, okay? So you understood how stupid question? Play. Let's close on that note. This is an example of a bad interview question. How can you describe something in one word station with you? Might remember that the best way to shut somebody up. Who is knowledgeable in that thing? How do you sort a vehicle that person could be speaking order for a single sentence? You so much, you're lovely and

thanks for.

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