Christine A. Fisher - Implementing BDD - How One Team is Making it Work

About speaker

About the talk

Welcome. 00:03 My name is Chris Fisher, 00:03 an we're going to talk today about implementing BDD how one team is hopefully maybe. 00:06 Making it work OK and I don't see a clicker in here, 00:13 so you're going to have to excuse me 'cause I tend to wander. 00:15 So I'll probably be over, 00:18 there at some point when I need to be slipping slides so before we get started. 00:20 I just wanted to introduce myself. 00:24 First of all I have my LinkedIn. 00:26

QR code up here so you can scan that from the app. 00:28 Or if you want to search for me on LinkedIn and Christine Ketterling for sure. 00:31 But I would love to connect with all of you. 00:34 Continue having conversations here at the conference or later, 00:36 on, so feel free to do that. 00:40 So let me give you just a little bit of background about how I went from high school teacher. 00:42 To test manager Alright so right, 00:47 I have no idea what I'm doing. 00:49

I'll just tell you guys that right now. 00:51 So I started my career as a high school teacher graduated with a degree in secondary education and taught. 00:55 Social studies for 6 years I taught grades nine through 12. 01:01 Geography government world history USS 3, 01:06 did it all. 01:10 At Let's go team try not to be too impressed by this, 01:10 but I was also the head, 01:15 cheerleading coach OK. 01:16

I know I know yes, 01:16 yeah, we placed 3rd at skate one year that was the best free did with my competitive. 01:19 So I was a high school teacher and when I decided to leave teaching then I went into professional services. 01:23 I took a job training. 01:31 In software and I wish I could tell you that, 01:33 like I really researched. 01:35 What my options were, 01:35 and thought about what I wanted to do. 01:37 But I didn't like that was a fluke. 01:39

I took a job that sounded good, 01:42 but that's fun this entire second karere. 01:44 In it that I've had. 01:47 So when I went into professional services. 01:49 I started like I said as a trainer managed a group of trainers. 01:52 Wrote training and development project management consulting did all of that for quite awhile. 01:55 It traveled quite a bit with that. 02:02 And so 6 years ago, 02:05 I had my daughter and when I did I decided I wanted to stop traveling. 02:06

And so I moved over to the development side and when I moved into development. 02:12 I went to a be able. 02:17 Which was a very natural fit for me? 02:19 I've always been a writer I love my documentation? 02:21 It was a good fit and professional services, 02:26 a lot of what I've been doing was writing implementation specs. 02:28 Writing client facing materials. 02:31 Hum. 02:31 Running a few basic implementations scripts with that. 02:36

I became a business analyst really enjoyed that piece, 02:39 figuring out what the client needed documenting that being the middle man between. 02:42 The development team and the stakeholders. 02:47 So I've been talking for a few minutes now and I've never once mentioned QA right. 02:50 So at my previous company, 02:56 I was on 2 different teams as a BA and when I switch to the second. 02:57 We were a large company. 03:02 We had a large office in Bangalore also an the solution. 03:04

I was working on had been in Bangalore. 03:08 For the last 10 to 12 years and they decided to bring that back to the US because we had a DOD contract into that had to be done. 03:10 That development had to happen in the USA. 03:17 So when that came back to the USS we created a new team. 03:20 There were 5 of us, 03:23 I think to start with. 03:24 And we all had experience at the company. 03:26 But we didn't have experience together and we didn't know that. 03:29

Solution so we didn't have any norms. 03:32 We didn't have any team processes or standards or anything, 03:35 and we Also at that point did not have a tester. 03:39 We had an opening and we needed to hire A tester. 03:42 But we didn't have someone and I said, 03:45 I will just do that. 03:47 And I'm actually not a good tester an I am. 03:48 Find to admit that I can write a test. 03:51 I can review a test. 03:53 I understand how all of those things. 03:54 But my mind is really with the VA side. 03:56

I tend to get caught up in all of the details and. 03:58 All of the documentation and people who are great at QA have a different mindset than I do. 04:01 They can look at something and really start to poke holes in it? 04:06 And that's not what I do, 04:10 I say, well, what can I document about all of this. 04:11 So I could do it and it was a stopgap for awhile, 04:15 but need taking that position, 04:18 while we were hiring somebody happen to coincide. 04:20

With what was happening at our company in the testing organization across the company, 04:23 which was all of the. 04:28 Shift left moving away from long scripted has starting to look at automation, 04:30 all of those things right that we know. 04:34 Are good but because we did not have a? 04:36 Process on our team, I just was able to say. 04:41 Hey, I'll figure this out. 04:44 So we didn't have anything that we had to change we had kind of a sister. 04:45

Team that they had been in the USA, 04:49 the entire time. 04:51 And they had very, 04:51 very deep processes around how they did their testing in the communication with that and we didn't have any of that on my team. 04:53 So I said, well I'll figure this out and so I did that did a little bit of the testing, 05:00 but there's a lot more of the process. 05:05 In the mean time, then I hired a QA for that team I was able to hand her that. 05:07 Framework. 05:12

And then she was able because she did have that QA mindset to really personalize all of that and figure out what to do. 05:12 So we did that and we ended up rolling out what we had done how we had kind of. 05:20 Transformed what we were doing even though we weren't doing anything first, 05:26 but would work for other teams to then the rest of. 05:29 Our organization, which is about 300 people, 05:32 but I think that was really my first foray into QA process. 05:35 Hum. 05:39

A little over a year ago, 05:41 I had an opportunity at a new company to manage a team of VA's. 05:42 And I thought well that would be really good expand my skill set and I don't know what I was. 05:46 About the QA piece like Oh sure I understand the importance of QA and I can do that right. 05:52 I don't know I think I may be thought that I would be focused a lot on the VA because that's really. 06:00 Features like supposed to have pets that we always do. 06:04

But then once I got in there, 06:11 if you would have told me 14 months ago that I would be Speaking of the testing conference. 06:12 I would not have believed you but once I got in there and realized the process in the things that needed to be done to improve what we were doing. 06:17 I didn't have to have those. 06:23 Asking skilled I had to have some process skills and he needed to understand the work that was being done. 06:24

And in the last years I've really jumped into this world so I've got my QA in my question mark. 06:30 I still don't always know what I'm doing but I'm really enjoying it so that's a little bit of my background. 06:36 And how I got here. 06:41 So our goals today, I'm going to talk to you about how my team is working through a significant process change, 06:44 so we're going to talk about BDD. 06:49 But if you are not doing DDD if you're not interested in BDD. 06:51 That's fine. 06:54

We're going to talk about how you need to make a process of the things you need to do to make a process. 06:54 Change on your team because it's really hard to change the way you're working because the work still has to be done. 07:00 Right you can't just quit everything your doing and learn something you were going to talk a lot about what we did with that. 07:06 I'm going to talk about why I think DDD is right for us and then I'm going to share some tips. 07:11

Successes and failures that we've seen in the last. 07:16 You are so that's how it felt when I first learned about BDD and it was about 2 years ago, 07:19 so it's still. 07:25 Company and its into the talk by a developer who was talking about BDD. 07:25 It was the first time I had ever heard about it and notice. 07:31 All of my exclamation points here right so a lot of buzzwords an can you tell me what the main buzz word was? 07:34

Write automation automation automation, so he talked this through we can have these scenarios, 07:41 and it's going to be living documentation. 07:46 And reports and it's easy to read and we can all do this remember that, 07:49 we can all do that. 07:52 'cause I'm going to talk about how that didn't actually happen in a minute. 07:53 And then all of the automation. 07:57 I. 07:59 So at the end of this talk, 07:59 he challenged us to go back to our teams and Tribed and so I looked at. 08:02

My tester and said you want to give this a try and she said sure so we went back, 08:07 I told my boss. 08:11 Will try this will try and figure it out? 08:11 He said great he sent me links to a couple of articles. 08:14 And that was it and then we didn't have any idea of what to do I read the articles. 08:18 We looked at like the given wind in scenarios, 08:24 but what we had gotten from the talk was that we didn't need requirements. 08:27 And so if we didn't need requirements. 08:33

I didn't know what I was supposed to do as a BA. 08:35 But she wasn't quite ready to write all of those scenarios, 08:39 so if she took that then put job was, 08:43 I doing? 08:45 And if I took that what job was she doing because she was not automating those were supposed to pass those scenarios. 08:45 Who are engineers we did not have any autumn QA automation art? 08:53 Right so we struggled a little bit and try to figure out exactly how we were supposed to do this. 08:58

And then it is old really quickly, 09:06 and then it completely stop. 09:08 'cause I left so we just ended that little experiment right there. 09:10 Alright so I went to. 09:13 A new company and I'm thinking about BDD like there's some value there that. 09:16 I just I didn't understand based on what that talk like that entire development team can participate at one point. 09:23 I stopped the developer who gave the talking like. 09:30

Hey, you know, we're really struggling with this we're trying it. 09:32 We can't quite figure out like where the division of work is between CA and QA So what did you guys? 09:35 Do on your team? 09:41 Who's like? 09:41 Well, we didn't involve them. 09:42 OK, so that's not actually be Dee Dee Ann. 09:44 I didn't know enough about it at the time they were just. 09:47 Automating tests using that given and then format that's great. 09:51

There's nothing wrong with doing that, 09:55 but they weren't really doing BDD. 09:58 So he told me that and it just didn't sit right. 10:00 But I still didn't know enough about it. 10:03 Hum. 10:05 To to understand that that was OK or not OK, 10:05 so this was the first intro that I had to be DD. 10:09 And then I went to a conference last year with the Agile Conference and I happen to pick up this. 10:13 And I don't know if anybody in here has read it the BDD books discovery. 10:18

And this is actually supposed to be a series of 3. 10:23 The last time I checked it was the first one was still the only one published. 10:26 So I don't know if the other two are out. 10:31 Yet or even the second one, 10:33 but I would highly recommend this book if you have. 10:35 Any interest in BDD at all. 10:37 It's a quick read. 10:39 It's short. 10:39 It's easy to digest. 10:40 I read it on the flight home from that conference. 10:40

So when I read this book, 10:45 you know, sometimes you have a light bulb moment and you realize that you're having the light bulb moment like? 10:46 Oh my God, yes, this is everything that I didn't understand so reading this book was my light bulb moment. 10:52 And I'm just going to share a few quotes with you directly from the book because when I was reading these. 10:58 All of the things that we did wrong and that. 11:03

That right my previous company like those started to make sense. 11:06 So first of all the purpose of software development is to deliver solutions to business problems and I think we all know that right. 11:10 We all work with different applications and we're all trying to deliver. 11:16 Our best solution. 11:19 DDD helps maintain a connection between the requirement and the software. 11:22 OK, so we can still have requirements. 11:27 We took a deep breath with that. 11:28

I really like my requirements. 11:30 OK, I wasn't ready to get rid of those. 11:32 So this is just another bridge between the 2. 11:34 BDD does not replace classic testing and testing skills. 11:39 So my manual tester there's still room for her right and then finally. 11:44 Improve test automation is one of the significant outcomes of following a BDD approach, 11:51 but it is a downstream. 11:57 Outcome. 11:58

If you are choosing BDD just automate your tests the chances of you being successful are probably pretty low. 11:58 This is a methodology. 12:07 This is a process that you have to put into place and that's where I realized that they didn't do. 12:07 They didn't try BDD on that other team and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the approach they did. 12:14 But they were automating tests based on a BDD concept right. 12:20 Uh. 12:25 And so. 12:25

We didn't want to try it to Automate, 12:25 but we can get some additional benefit out of using DDD. 12:29 And one of those is automation. 12:33 So I read this book, 12:36 I was so excited. 12:38 I went back to my team. 12:38 Have any of you ever had a boss who went to a conference and came back and said guess what? 12:41 I heard a talk I read a book I did something right. 12:47

So this was them and we recreated this picture, 12:52 the other day with the thumbs down and people turned around and not paying any attention. 12:55 And we ended up having a little bit of fun with this, 13:00 but actually I wish they could have taken. 13:02 A picture of when I pulled them all into the conference conference room and said Hey, 13:04 you guys. 13:07 I want to take this. 13:07

Picture of your reaction when I first started talking about BDD because that was actually more the reaction then like she. 13:09 Still, talking about this and now she wants to take a picture of us. 13:14 So, but we didn't know each other very well when it so I started at. 13:18 In the beginning of May and this is now like the first week in August. 13:25 So we didn't know each other very well. 13:29

So nobody was actually doing this when I came back and started talking about BDD. 13:31 They just smiled and then I'm sure went back to their desk and talked about me. 13:35 And that's OK that's alright. 13:39 So this thing why mess with a good thing. 13:42 This was really important because I had this idea. 13:44 and I wanted to try. 13:48 It now, I'm understanding the value of what BDD is. 13:49 But I was not hired to fix a broken team this team was pretty functional. 13:54

They were writing decent requirements. 13:58 There weren't a lot of Mrs. 14:00 We had good tests in place and we were starting to automate tests. 14:02 With the linium we were doing all of the things right that you're supposed to be doing now there's always room for improvement. 14:05 And. 14:14 I'm not saying that everything was perfect, 14:14 but I was not hired to fix anything. 14:17 An I'm brand new I still had a ton to learn? 14:19 Why did I want to mess with a good thing? 14:22

And I spent a lot of time, 14:25 asking myself do I want to mess with this? 14:26 Is there something that I want to change here? 14:28 And if I do why and so I think that's the first thing you're bringing in process improvement. 14:30 If you're changing something that you're doing. 14:36 Make sure that you're doing, 14:38 it for the right reasons. 14:40 I still ask myself, sometimes am I doing this just because. 14:42 I knew I want to make my mark on something is this going to be successful. 14:45

So those are a lot of conversations that I had back and forth with myself. 14:49 But the reason I decided why we, 14:54 we wanted to try this why I wanted to try this, 14:56 I'm using me. 14:59 Right just the Royal we're going to drag them in with me was because of the DevOps transformation so. 14:59 6 months or so before I started they had announced a 3 year state ahead initiative DevOps CI CD continuous delivery. 15:06 Moving all of our applications to the cloud. 15:17

All of those things right. 15:20 So first of all we are a traditional organization and when I say traditional organization. 15:22 I don't mean not talking about are. 15:27 Industry, although we are in insurance, 15:29 but I'm not talking about the industry. 15:31 I'm not talking about our dress code. 15:33 I'm not talking about the fact that we don't have beer Fridays or anything like that. 15:35

What I'm talking about is that I don't work for a software company I work for the National Association of insurance commissioners. 15:39 It is a nonprofit organization and it's been around for over 100 years. 15:46 Our IT department now makes up about half of the company. 15:52 An we've had applications in existence for 20 years or so now. 15:57

So the software development but we're not a software development company, 16:01 it's becoming a very important piece of what we do. 16:05 But that's not our goal at my previous company. 16:08 We were a major health care software company and that's what we did. 16:11 So this is very different and when we're talking about DevOps. 16:16 We had all of the roles that are part of software testing so we had manual testers. 16:19

We were starting to have some automation testers we had these days. 16:24 Those people are reported to me. 16:28 We have some product owners who are on a different team that we have our development. 16:30 But we weren't looking to change that structure. 16:34 Right I know some type companies are going to say. 16:39 We're going to make everybody in automation tests are going to get rid of QA. 16:43 There are a lot of different things that are going to be done. 16:46

That's not something that our organization was going to do I don't think that those are good things to do, 16:48 but that's not what this talk is about? 16:53 And so we weren't going to change the people or the structure of the people. 16:55 So that's The that's important. 17:00 Change is exciting so with this there was a lot in there still is. 17:04 There's a lot of buzz about what we're doing. 17:07

We're using new tools, new technologies were doing development in different way. 17:10 But who's using those tools and technologies. 17:16 Start developers and our automation engineers. 17:18 But I still have manual testers and I still have the A's and I am very sensitive to the fact. 17:22 That their skills need to be developed as well, 17:27 and the work that they're doing needs to change as well. 17:30 We need to modernize those skills. 17:34

We can't have this DevOps transformation. 17:36 And not transform all of the people I think that that's really important. 17:40 I wanted to find a way. 17:44 To increase and expand their skills. 17:46 And then finally but what's going to happen to my job there had been some talk of. 17:49 There's room for everybody, but the work that you do might change. 17:55 A little bit and so I tried to. 17:59 I had a conversation with our chief architect at that time and really tried to nail down. 18:01

What what is that message? 18:06 What are we telling people and there wasn't a great answer and I said then we need to stop telling people that. 18:07 Because that's scary if you know how to do one job if you're good at your job if you like your job and you're being. 18:12 Hold that it might change, 18:18 but you don't know how that's a very scary position to be in. 18:20

So it was part of this, 18:26 this DevOps transformation an the BDD that really this piece is what drove me to Tribed. 18:28 Because I do think. 18:37 As a leader we have a responsibility. 18:37 And we have a responsibility to drive change. 18:41 We have a responsibility to move the team forward. 18:45 And we have a responsibility to build skills and exploring new ideas. 18:48 And when I told my team is that? 18:53

We don't want to keep doing our work, 18:56 especially manual testing and writing requirements. 18:58 We don't want to keep doing that work. 19:01 In the same way we've always done it and then somebody else, 19:04 God forbid a developer comes and tells us. 19:08 How we need to change our work right? 19:11 We need to take control of that we need to try and figure out. 19:13 How we can change and what we can do to modernize our skills and to fit in with the DevOps transformation? 19:16

So our journey toward DDD. 19:27 And the first start was not great. 19:30 Hum. 19:33 I decided to start with just our business, 19:33 analysts and again if you read the book, 19:36 it's very clear. 19:38 If you're thinking about DDD if you're trying to understand the behaviors of your end users. 19:38 You need to start those conversations before you even write requirement. 19:43 And then you move on to manual testing and then you move on to automation. 19:47

And so I started with the business analyst only I gave them an assignment. 19:51 A reading assignment from the book that I brought back which they loved. 19:55 Right now, it was very quick. 20:00 Selected. 20:01 Several different passages, but probably took about half hour, 20:01 45 minutes to read. 20:06 So I had them all read that and then I told them it was on them to meet as a group. 20:06

To talk about how they could incorporate those ideas into what they were already doing and then schedule some time with me. 20:13 To present a plan. 20:20 So they did what I asked them, 20:20 too, and they scheduled a meeting with me. 20:25 And what their plan would be as that they would do the three. 20:28 Amigos meetings as needed as everybody familiar with the three Amigos meeting. 20:31 Or requirements workshop. 20:34 OK so the idea is that you get. 20:38

A product owner or a business analyst so up somebody from the business in the room, 20:42 you get a tester in the room. 20:47 And you get a developer in the room and there is a great example and not dbook of. 20:49 Exploring the idea of the pizza delivery service and so you know. 20:56 You order your pizza you want it delivered and very straightforward happy path. 21:01 We know what to do and then they throw in this wrench of. 21:05 OK, the address needs to be changed. 21:08

We actually accidentally put in our work address but we need it delivered to home. 21:10 And so then. 21:14 Everybody start you know the testers can say, 21:14 well, what about this. 21:18 The developers can say, 21:18 well, what about this. 21:20 Keith and it kind of hangs up in the scenario given in the book that. 21:20 If they give us the address change before the pizza leaves and it's no problem right. 21:25 But what if the drivers already out in the car. 21:30

Well, in the example the developer says we don't have the technology about making a major change at this point. 21:33 To alert the driver like through the application and so it's that you're talking through all of these scenarios, 21:40 and that's where you're trying to understand what the behavior is. 21:45 But the gotchas might be and making a list of all of those, 21:48 and again that book really details. 21:52

How you can do that and how you can track those conversations. 21:54 So what they decided is that they would do the three Amigos meetings as needed, 21:58 and we have in our Department. 22:02 4 different agile teams, so this group is distributed among those teams. 22:04 That they would do them and that I would not be invited and that was OK right. 22:10 We're all still getting to know each other. 22:14

But they wanted to just keep it like what the book described they didn't want to manager in there watching what they were doing. 22:16 I decided OK well well, 22:23 let that one go. 22:25 So I think each of the team. 22:25 You had one or 2 meetings, 22:29 they tried it. 22:31 Things slow down really quickly because I left the team set the pace. 22:31 And I'm glad that I did that again. 22:37 We were still learning that you know the trust and trying to work with each other. 22:39

But it didn't really work and then just as. 22:44 A matter of circumstance coincidence. 22:47 I don't think it was because of BDD or me like 3 of my for BJ's. 22:50 All turned in their resignations and then it had the 4th when followed not long after, 22:55 so in some of them moved internally. 23:00 They had some different opportunities internally. 23:01

One left the company and it's fine, 23:04 but What didn't really work in the 1st place then fell apart at that point because then I had a team to rebuild and I. 23:07 Couldn't go any further with this. 23:14 So we got new people in place we started working on that. 23:16 And where things really changed was when we were able to have a BDD workshop at the very end of the year. 23:19 My boss, said Hey, we have some extra training money and if we don't use it. 23:28

We won't get it next year. 23:33 Anybody have anything that they need so to our management group. 23:34 I I do, I'll take some so. 23:39 Nobody else really put a claim on it. 23:42 I took what we had, 23:44 and I had a different conference, 23:46 Attesting Conference last fall. 23:48 I had met some people. 23:48 And had had some conversations with their company about things that they might be able to do. 23:51 And again to fill some of my QA gap since like hold my contact there and I ask her Hey. 23:57

Do you think that you can do a BDD workshop and she said. 24:02 Oh yeah absolutely so very quickly we put this? 24:06 Together this workshop happened, the Wednesday and Thursday before Christmas. 24:08 Alright so Christmas I think was on a Monday or Tuesday last year, 24:16 so I mean, we're right into the Holidays. 24:19 Team is thrilled with me that I'm asking them to do these things they weren't really looking forward to this workshop. 24:22

But we had a two day workshop, 24:28 we brought people in from the outside. 24:30 And we had two trainers and I think that this was important because we had. 24:34 A people person and we had a technical person. 24:39 So we would 'cause I made my whole team go. 24:42 We had you know the Villiers, 24:45 who don't care about automation. 24:47 All some of my manual testers are interested. 24:48 Some of them are not. 24:50

And so we would do just enough of the soft skills, 24:52 the theory, the why behind DDD and then. 24:55 They would switch years and they would talk about the automation peace and all of the technical pieces and that was really important. 24:58 For the team, it kept both of them engaged throughout to have those 2 different people there at the end of the first day we didn't. 25:05

Open space with each of those trainers and the team could decide which one they wanted to attend they could. 25:12 Attend one and then go to the other for awhile if they wanted to, 25:17 but getting to talk to those people. 25:20 Ask their questions asked some of their fears and I went back and forth so they could do that without me around. 25:22 That helped as well. 25:28 And when it was over the team was really excited, 25:31 which was fantastic. 25:33

I they were stopping by my office, 25:33 we love that. 25:36 You know, 25:36 we want to try this. 25:37 The second day of the workshop. 25:38 The first day was mostly theory, 25:40 the second day of the workshop. 25:42 Ended up being all hands on we took an example from one of our teams. 25:43 We tried to write the feature files. 25:48 We tried to write scenarios, 25:51 we reviewed those as a group to figure out. 25:53

You know that this was a lot harder than we thought it would be and we critiqued each others and. 25:56 Figured out how we could improve and so we really got a lot from that. 26:02 And if you want to make a point that we were very lucky to be able to do this. 26:05 And I understand that so I don't think if you are implementing BDD if you're doing some other process changed. 26:11 But you have to spend money. 26:17

I don't think that you have to go to an outside vendor what I think was important. 26:19 Was having neways in there? 26:24 Fresh faces who could talk the talk I couldn't do that. 26:26 I saw a lot of value from what? 26:30 I read in a book and then from some research that I was doing, 26:32 but I didn't have the experience to back it up. 26:35 I had started to look before we had this opportunity started to reach out to some of my Contacts. 26:38

Then the community in Kansas City and trying to see if I could get somebody local into maybe just come in and do a talk. 26:43 Having the money being able to do the workshop that was really nice. 26:49 I don't think that was necessary, 26:52 but I do think maybe bringing somebody else. 26:53 And even if it's just a little bit to give their experiences might make a difference. 26:56 If you're having a hard time selling a process improvement to your team. 26:59 When we went on. 27:04

Holiday break, I mean, people were in and out of the office, 27:07 but I didn't really see anybody for. 27:09 2 weeks and during that time I thought about what we had just done because I didn't want to. 27:11 Send this money and have a good workshop and not do anything with those skills that we had gained. 27:15 And I also wanted to think about what we what we really wanted to get out of that so. 27:20 Again very lucky in what we were doing. 27:26

I knew that there were probably some funds in this year's budget. 27:28 For a longer term, consulting agreement, 27:31 but I don't want to put my name on a high dollar contract. 27:34 If it's not going to be successful and if I can't show value to our organization and so I spent some time. 27:39 Writing a business proposal my boss actually called. 27:46 But I wrote my thesis. 27:49 I don't really think that that was a compliment, 27:51 but I do think she at least skimmed it. 27:53 Of. 27:55

But I needed to put down I told you I love my documentation. 27:55 I needed to put down on paper. 27:59 What we had learned? 28:00 What our goal was and was this something that could really be successful and if you go out and Google BDD? 28:00 You're going to find a lot of failure stories. 28:09 And so that way I mean, 28:12 like reading all of those one night. 28:13 I kind of went down a rabbit hole. 28:14 But that was terrifying like is there. 28:16 Anybody who's been successful with this? 28:18

What are we going to do so I just laid out? 28:20 What I thought we could do what I wanted to get out of it and what my plan was. 28:22 How we could get started before we were going to spend additional money I wanted to prove that we could do some of this on our. 28:26 Known as well so once I had all of that logically written. 28:32 We came back from the Holidays. 28:35 Like I said, I gave it to her we discussed and that was fine. 28:37

But we did start to make some changes on our team. 28:41 So one of the things we did. 28:44 We were having sort of having test strategy meetings. 28:47 We had tried this with one of our teams already. 28:50 And it was really successful with that team and what we were doing every week after grooming, 28:52 then we Grooming on Wednesday for that team on Thursday, 28:59 we would have a test strategy meeting with the QA MBAs. 29:02

From that project team and we would go through those stories again and make a decision about what would be automated. 29:05 That would be manually tested with the idea of We're going to talk through BDD, 29:12 an what scenarios we should. 29:17 Our scenarios are and then again, 29:20 we can identify which ones. 29:22 We want to Automate and which ones we don't. 29:23 I'm 29:26 It still works really well with the original team and they were able to shift focus pretty easily. 29:28

The other teams some were more successful than others, 29:35 but every team started doing this. 29:38 We had weekly scenario meetings during first quarter. 29:41 I called these poetry readings. 29:45 And so the one thing that I did what I learned from that. 29:46 False start an earlier in the fall where I had left the views kind of set the pace is that I still wanted the team involved, 29:50 but I also knew that we were not going to get anywhere. 29:57

If I didn't just say we're going to stop writing scripted tests and all of the different project teams were doing testing differently. 30:00 You're still writing step-by-step tests in Excel somewhere, 30:08 putting a few notes on a jira there wasn't a really cohesive. 30:12 Playing around with each team was doing and it was you know the QA on that team knew what their process. 30:16

And so that piece I said that stops immediately after the first of the year and so we're going to start. 30:23 Writing these scenarios, and then during these weekly scenario meetings. 30:29 The whole team would come in and we would go through them and I know it. 30:33 People on the spot to share what they had written but the team was really great nobody was ever critical. 30:36

But they were doing because we were all in the same boat, 30:42 but just talking through do we need more detail in that? 30:45 Is this really the right thing? 30:48 Can we split the scenario into two and so I think that helped it? 30:50 Team quite a bit. 30:53 I also told them during that first quarter. 30:53 That plan on everything that you are writing that that throw away work. 30:57

And that's hard, but that's honestly kind of what they were doing to begin with right putting all of that information into. 31:02 An Excel sheet. 31:08 They weren't going back and finding that an updating those and so we were just writing. 31:08 Manual test in a different way. 31:14 But I didn't want them to think that we had to automate these. 31:16 Or that these has had to live on. 31:19 We had to get some practice doing it. 31:21 So we did our weekly scenario meetings. 31:23

We started creating A tag library and this was very important if you're doing BDD you want to have it. 31:26 Standardized universal language across your team and so because we had multiple project teams. 31:32 We want to make sure that we're using the same tags. 31:38 So if I've got somebody writing a login script or login test on one team and the tag is. 31:41 LOGIN and on another team, 31:48 it's LOG underscore I in then as they shift. 31:50 Games because they get moved around. 31:55

They need to be able to find those and so we use confluence wiki. 31:57 We started a wiki page with just what these tags are so for the universal things like logging in. 32:01 And then also application specific things so that way they have an idea of what their cabs should be. 32:06 And if they are on a new team, 32:12 they can go in and they can look to see what people have been using? 32:13

We started a slack channel just for BDD questions and that was nice that it's still like activity varies. 32:17 Put questions out there, you know, 32:27 I have all of these variables? 32:29 How do I put those into my test anybody have any ideas on that. 32:30 We moved our tests to get lab, 32:36 so at this point that wasn't exactly true but we were getting ready to move the test to get lab. 32:38 So our automation, engineers were very comfortable with GitLab. 32:44

RBA is an R manual testers were not. 32:47 And so we wanted to make sure that we were getting everybody access to get lab that they understood. 32:49 How to put things in GitLab but their documents in there? 32:55 How they would edit those tests because the idea is the manual testers are going to be. 32:58 Writing these tests writing the scenarios working closely with the diese to understand the behaviors and so either one might have to go in and make an? 33:02

Update to a test and so getting everybody comfortable with GitLab and then starting to move our tests. 33:10 And then again, we started I started on the paperwork to do a long-term engagement with the consulting firm again somebody. 33:18 Just come in and kind of shore up what we're doing, 33:25 and what our next steps. 33:27 How do we put all of this? 33:28 Together and I think that that's probably as leaders in the room. 33:30

I think that that's something that probably all of you can identify with. 33:33 If we don't have enough time. 33:36 I could spend. 33:38 All of my time focus on getting this implemented, 33:38 but realistically. 33:42 I can't do that. 33:42 There are a lot of other things that I have to do and so having additional resources. 33:44 It's going to be a big help and so I started working on that piece. 33:49 Alright I wanted to share some feedback from my team. 33:53

On what we've done where we've been so far. 33:56 No more stress about what test cases have been written where they're stored who is putting together a spreadsheet to track them. 34:00 And how they are being divided up for test. 34:06 So we're starting to see some positive there. 34:09 Will this work for our applications. 34:12 This has been a question I've had several people in my office like we have old applications. 34:15 Complicated just in the fact that. 34:22

Some of them are 20 years old. 34:25 There are a lot of databases. 34:26 A lot of Dependencies. 34:28 One of them relies on a lot of financial data input. 34:28 From 3rd parties? 34:32 How do we get all of that into these tests so will this work? 34:32 Are we wasting our time. 34:37 They don't always know the answer I think that it will but that's a concern. 34:39 It's a valid concern that they have. 34:42

It takes the messiness of use cases and test cases and streamlines the process into easy to read feature files. 34:45 We started strong in first quarter, 34:55 but died down, some in second, 34:57 which I absolutely agree with. 34:58 We did a lot in first quarter. 35:00 Second quarter because of some other things that were happening on the team we didn't put as much focus on this. 35:02

Right now, what we're doing with BDD is what I consider and work so we're doing our everyday work. 35:07 And we're trying to learn how to implement Don our team. 35:14 And that's really hard and I know I don't want to dig into it, 35:18 too much. 35:22 But I know that there are people who are writing scenarios to show me. 35:22 And then going back to their Excel spreadsheet on the side and really doing what they know how to do for testing. 35:27

Because the first thing when we make a change and it gets hard and we are under pressure from a deadline. 35:33 As we go back to what we know right or wrong. 35:39 It's our quickest default right. 35:42 It's the way we know how to get things done. 35:43 And so that's something that I know that we did kind of fall off a little bit in the second quarter. 35:46 And so I'm afraid there's been a little bit more going back to what they know works for them and for their team. 35:51

You keep saying This isn't just for automation, 35:59 but sometimes it feels like it. 36:01 This is probably the one piece that, 36:03 like Oh, OK are we doing the right thing and we making sure we're getting the focus on the VA's. 36:05 And the work that the manual testers or doing too. 36:10 And so I had them send me some of this. 36:13 Probably a month ago and since I have seen this. 36:16 I'm really trying to make sure that the. 36:19

The less technical people on the team understand the benefit in it for them and how this is changing their work, 36:21 how the physics. 36:27 In their skills. 36:27 Alright. 36:31 So where are we now we have consultants coming on Monday actually so we have about a 3 months? 36:31 3 month engagement and they start on Monday. 36:38 We have a BA Emmanuel, 36:41 an an automated QA who will be coming to help. 36:43 Report what we're doing. 36:46

And again I hate to say like that's what you need to do for process change. 36:46 It's not, but, for what we're doing. 36:52 I'm very excited for this. 36:54 I think that that's really going to help boost where we're going to be able to go. 36:55 We have some API test that have been automated, 37:00 so one of the testers on my team, 37:04 he's just. 37:06 Is never sitting still he always wants to try he was doing a lot of the API automation so he went? 37:06

And look at how he could write these scenarios how he could automate that he started using cucumber and moved his tests away from selenium. 37:14 And so we have some of those we don't have any for the UI and those are going to be the harder ones. 37:22 Obviously, but we at least have a start and we have that. 37:28 We now have GitLab Repose, 37:32 where those are we have those API tests incorporated into our pipeline for an application the one that's being rewritten. 37:34

Being released, it hasn't been released yet and it probably won't for I think we're looking at next spring. 37:41 Is our release date that we still have a while to go but it's catching bugs catching issues in the code and so. 37:48 We have some success there and that feels good. 37:54 And our next steps will be to continue to get all of our project teams in our team members engaged. 37:58

There are still some people who are like well, 38:03 she's telling me I have to do this so I will. 38:06 But I don't think that they are interested in it. 38:08 I don't know that they love the idea so trying to 38:12 Get the enthusiasm in the engagement up for everybody. 38:15 I'm getting all of our teams writing automated test so starting to automate the UI tests, 38:19 taking those scenarios, we've been. 38:25

Working on writing and now starting to automate them and that was from the very beginning. 38:27 I told him by the time we got to 3rd quarter, 38:31 we should be comfortable enough. 38:33 With both our process with writing those scenarios that we should start to Automate and so that's where we are using cucumber. 38:34 So it will be starting that. 38:42 And then like I said, 38:45 so that BDD becomes the work so that writing our test in scenarios doing that. 38:46

3 Amigos meetings of the requirements workshop really understanding the behavior. 38:51 That that all just becomes second nature to us and it's not In addition to the work that they're doing. 38:56 So again. 39:05 My path to being a testing manager is a little bit different, 39:05 although in the last session. 39:10 If anybody was in this room. 39:12 Hum. 39:13 No sorry 2 sessions ago, 39:13 somebody asked thing was in the other room. 39:16

Oh, how many of you planned to go into QA and I think only one person raised their hand so we probably all have our story. 39:18 That's not quite so conventional of how we got where we are, 39:23 but I am still a teacher. 39:27 I'm still definitely. 39:29 It's really dark for my team an you know supporting them when they need it. 39:29

All of the time that I spent in professional services was really valuable that's good experience to bring in if you've worked on the professional. 39:34 Service aside and flying out to client sites and working with them trying to understand their workflows and what makes them unique. 39:41 That's just like working with a team all of those skills translate and then like I said those question marks. 39:50

The way those are starting to become exclamation point I still probably won't ever feel completely comfortable in this world. 39:55 But I really have enjoyed what I am doing like I said, 40:03 I would love to connect with all of you on LinkedIn. 40:06 I thank you for coming if you have any questions, 40:09 we have just a couple of minutes or even. 40:11 So thank you and enjoy the rest of your afternoon. 40:13