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PANEL: Understanding Emerging Ad Formats

Susan Borst
VP, Mobile --> Head of Social and Content Marketing Solutions at IAB
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MGS 19
February 14, 2019, San Francisco, CA, USA
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About speakers

Susan Borst
VP, Mobile --> Head of Social and Content Marketing Solutions at IAB
Roz Hajian
User Acquisition / Digital Marketing at Kabam
Jacilyn Wu
Senior Manager - User Acquisition at Zynga
Jonathan Stringfield
VP, Global Business Marketing, Measurement, & Insights - Media & Esports at Activision Blizzard
Sam Fischer
Sales Director at InMobi

Digitally and mobile savvy, highly strategic and analytical marketing professional with a unique brand building leadership view from top creative agency and leading digital advertising trade association perspectives. Creative and collaborative, proven senior level project management ability to work with cross-functional groups, leading diverse teams on complex projects toward concrete, strategic market strategy, positioning and design outcomes from conception to execution while managing P&L/budget and timelines. Credited with largely building IAB's social/content sectors, Susan's specialty focus is on digital brand engagement and modern storytelling via social media, native advertising, content marketing, influencer marketing, UGC marketing, affiliate marketing, as well as game advertising. Excellent writer and public speaker with extensive new business experience.

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Experienced User Acquisition / Growth Marketing professional with a demonstrated history of working in the gaming industry.

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Highly analytical professional, detail oriented and data oriented professional comfortable in working with large sets of data.Power User in Excel (Pivot Tables, Vlookup, Index Match, IF/SUMIF functions)

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Media/Technology researcher, Empirically-focused Marketer, Sociologist, Measurement Scientist, Demographer. Quantitative research professional experienced in statistical analysis, experimental design, data management, presentations, leading teams, storytelling, and disseminating insights simply/cogently.

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Media Publisher & Agency experience that spans across three International Markets – Australia, United Kingdom and the United States.Account leadership, integrated communications planning and sales expertise across global brands - P&G, Kimberly-Clark, Pepsi, Johnson & Johnson, L'Oreal and Hewlett Packard.

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About the talk

Curated by IAB. The panel will explore new approaches to impactful game ad formats, focusing on what’s new, what’s changing…and why. From A/B testing and creative optimization to opt-in value exchange (rewarded), playables and interactive end cards for both UA and brand advertising, you’ll hear why, now more than ever, putting the consumer first is truly the way to win the ad game.


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My name is Susan. I'm with the IV out of New York upload the game committee for the past 5 years and the mobile center of excellence. Today. We're going to talk about understanding and formats. I'm also the person who'll be taking any questions on slido. So please ask away while while they're talking while we're talking. I'm almost down. I'll try to integrate them into the conversation where it makes sense and if we don't get to your questions will be out in the hallway to answer any other questions that you have. So without further Ado, why don't we introduce yourself?

What do you do at your company name is Sam Fisher, and I'm director of Advertising Solutions to the movie. I am Jesse and I'm senior Madrid Zynga. Jonathan Springfield, I received gold business marketing measurement and insights for Activision Blizzard media, which is the advertising arm of Activision Blizzard. Great will today when we talkin about new approaches to game advertising what's new with different and importantly why so when you think of impactful at experiences weather that is for user acquisition of your own game or when you're working with brands on Advertising within your game if

you could pick just one. What would be the most exciting and impactful thing that you're staying in your world and let's go down and throw again. So I think what's really interesting around emerging ad formats is the premise behind what we're trying to achieve with him is chair of attention and share of experiences. And when you think about what that means is it in a in a will down with such limited capacity intensive uses mindset and time what you really trying to drive is to just get someone's attention for a. Of time and haven't experienced weather be from a user acquisition

standpoint Bruce Wood branding standpoint a really good example from what we've seen around from outside on the brand side specifically 360 panoramic experience with that. One of them is around the time you get there. It's quite far away is the cost of getting them the time off in the u.s. Is actually a bit more limiting another. Song that has berries to the US consume actually getting across to that side of the world. And so what we needed to do from an

interactive experiences actually bring New Zealand to them so gorgeous country and then what was done was actually different video produced and actually done in a 360 video format that actually gave the consumer real life experience that how to get how to get there and what it was like in really given that feeling so when you think about that around share of attention around shared experiences that kind of breaks up and get to the gym to thinking maybe I do want to go that how could I get there? So I think that's what we're trying to do around emotion ad

formats. Ejaculated zingo. What's the most exciting? Ukrainian singer, I think I had to pick one. It would be playable. It's one of the newest ad formats, which I think it's a spelling for us when it's her in terms of conversion metrics and we started adding this in a rotation for Creative refreshed and starting around here 3 years sometime in the queue for last year. And from what we have launched were seeing about a 50 to 60% Lyft and CTR. This is really huge for us something that is very very exciting because now we're getting away from the static

images and then we got the videos which is really getting then, you know, the static images is gives us like a snapshot of like what a gameplay will look like what the game is look like and here comes the video which is an ad format that shows you what the game is all about. But a playable actually allow you for allowing us to use a medium to allow that are users to actually interact with the gameplay and this is really big because This will push for a higher engagement. It is something that is very important to us specially now that there's another the clutter in the market right now of

different games different ad formats different scenes of that works for them. Right? So it's something that will anything that will increase engagement of the user. That's definitely what we want to push for. And again, this is a new ad format a lot of things that we want to test theories that he wanted to test. But from what I learned so far is that the continuiti and dismissive. Playable giving that a wonderful experience and a journey what you call right from start to finish until you give them that compelling reason for them to

ship that click button to download in the end that is that is key. And so it's if I had to break it down. It's definitely that start body and the ending. It starts with a leading video of Eden video needs to be something that will catch their attention something that is broadly be connected to the actual playable. We want that because of the deleted video is actually a good preview of what we want the users or what we expect the users to be doing the actual playable. This will

allow them to this will give us a good example of like as a clear-cut instructions of what we want them to do. Like for example for Words With Friends, if you want them to move those letters onto the board game a dynamic hip would be a great way to show them of what to do like a moving hands placing that letter to onto the the game board or maybe an arrow moving one from the towel for Farmville. I don't know if you guys play that game moving from one. A video of the board game to the other things like that. We don't want

to create any confusion. We want to make sure that the experience is very smooth. The next part of it will be your gameplay write what you want to ask yourself. What is it about? Our game is the best experience that we can give our players. This is one thing that you need to ask yourself because you know your ad this playable it will be the 1st back to users will be getting and so you want to put your best foot forward. Do you want them to be entertained interested just so that they can download a game and then and we want to be able to give them that moment that

congratulatory moments like for example, if we're talking about a poker game. You went all-in you win celebration. Let's give them the confetti to the sparkle all that's the big moment that there that will make them feel that. Hey, I'm awesome. Right and so let's go download the game sometimes incentives do really well for us. Like for example, if you download the game now, it'll be even more compelling for them. If you get them free gems for free coins just to get them to download currently at the Django. We are able to play Apples

and makes up about 15 20% and I really would like to see that girl even further to Future. That's great. So we've talked about from a movie Richmond experiences. You've been single with pliables. How about you Jonathan over at us Activision Blizzard Mania where we're spending a lot of time right now in value exchange media, which isn't the new format for sale, but I think the intentionality that we're going about his The difference when we're building at experiences. We're kind of a hold of the three Masters, right? So on the one hand advertisers quite obviously they wanted vacations

media. They want some mechanism through which their message can punch through with consumers. I are players second is the player. I mean, we're first and foremost a game company straight up so, you know advertising will always be a tertiary mechanism to that. So the extent to which that we can make that experience, will there be an ad or what-have-you well-integrated the game and if possible beneficent the game that's exactly what we're going to do in 3rd the Studio's like we are beholden to them in terms of taking something like advertising like experiences in putting it within their game

that sometimes have been around for a person decade decade so that the standard that we have to keep is respecting these franchises this fan base that has the games and Kinley has a lot of love for them and making sure that it's still still conducive to you know, a good experience across all three in and what we found is that you know, if done right if Really kind of have something like boot the reward mechanism and the extent to which that it lets built into the game and make sure that's up to the standards of the studio quite candidly. It pays dividends for everyone that you know again, but I

think at this point in the advertising World, we're kind of coming to a reckoning in terms of the extent to which people are recognizing what they are paying for their entertainment experiences, whether it's implicit or explicit, right? So whether or not you were giving personal information whether or not you know, you are in Subway transacting the company even if you don't understand it you're paying for those experiences being upfront about it right saying you don't listen to We have a little bit of your Time Fitness Brandon wants to show you something and getting someone or reward for it.

They feel respected. If the other time has been respected than they're four they're paying attention if they're paying attention to get punched through forever Tizer. So overall will be seen is that this has been effective in terms of making sure that we were kind of keeping that balance in and that's the framer going to eat those that we really want to develop when you know, whether or not it's as a reward for matter. Otherwise we have to think about how else can we integrate marketing. Beyonder mobile games like on the PC titles on the console titled where candidly the audiences are

a little bit prickly her about us intruding on on their their experiences. So, you know being able to do it right away that's respectful for a players will be Paramount and that's why we made a heavy investment in that format. Rat Rods, how about the world and caban with hot hot for you all are working on over at coming out is called Marvel contest of Champions. It's a AAA game and has beautiful graphics and that can mean creating a true playable tolerable file size eye candy Distributors. Can you really think

so what we've been doing is doing an activity card. So we've been using a bank card Faded by our partners that bungled rewarded video and it's basically a light demo for a game and it's preceded by a gameplay Focus video. So having that flow where you're showing users of what's to come and give him a little taste of how to play the game. It really allows for a native experience and it also need a really good picture, but they're getting into before download. That's great. So you got all these different formats playables and often value exchange AKA rewarded.

They're not necessarily is Azusa Johnson. They're not new per se but they seem to be having new life on a new way of looking at it. What's what is the similarities between these add products including your end cards? Which should I think Rodger talked about when we were in our product what is making these rise to the top is some of the most exciting engage and compelling ad formats is across-the-board where I see the similarities is 404 essentially in the consumer teething the consumer with a with a piece of Valium wears before from push marketing standpoint. It's just see message

cement to see message now, we're off to them because of the economy technology-driven world and the type of audiences and they dated a life. We're actually having to give a little bit more. Give a little bit more value to them in terms of experiences. And I think we're really interesting is from a central strategy standpoint. So I think when people at the Old Market is a thinking about know is I just want to try format for the sake of trying to format. I think testing testing line approach too many things is actually a great mindset and or I can evolve your

own mindset about testing the money, but I do think it's really important to have you have your strategy and have a full mattress fit into that strategy. Otherwise the union or the just heading format for the second testing it I don't see you going to see the real value of them working and how do you how do you all know that these things are and if that's working, how are you measuring them? Vanity candidly that it did we put a heavy investment in in the weather or not. These ads are actually resume the folks, right? So it again we've gone

to various lengths in terms of like this by Metric and neurological Labs like the whole nine yards, like what we're really trying to find out is that when people engage in one of them not right? So what are the triggers to which people are actually going to be paying attention or not? Because again, this will resonate towards things that are going to be the score cards are the advertisers weather that's surveys will do that, you know what traffic studies more than anything of that nature you need to make sure that the message is resonating. If not, there's no point. You can throw as much media

out there. You will see what people are paying attention and we're actually talking with the messages. There's no value in what you're doing and what we we found is it again why we're leading into things like you change media is that what can be successfully integrated within 2 Gameplay experience, right? So what are the things that feel native? What are the things that are like this seems like it's okay relative to high expectation when I open up a game. Right. So we do a lot of advertising like we're a lot of our new open Yelp advertising up to change his candy crush candy crush has been

around for the better part of a decade right? Like many of you played it. If you open up you have an expectation for her. I was going to look how it's going to feel what's going to happen the mechanics of it and that's what makes franchise a successful. Right? Like, you know, we could get very sociological or economic. Like it's McDonald's right like it when you go to these things but specifically for the game experience if all of a sudden I go in and I'm having like my remind me time, right like I Got 5 minutes, I'm going to crush some candies on the relax room and it going to play a game

and you're putting something there that I don't expect or it's weird orthogonal to my understanding of it. It's jarring and when snoring cognitively I'm out of sync with what I would otherwise be which is relaxed attend etcetera the real trick with so many of these that has to be ingrained into that gameplay experience and it has to be mailed with what people's expectation are and then again that the straightforward aspect of Exchange for disrespecting their time transparently, right like just saying that you know again, you don't have to do this if you don't want to do right? Like

that's cool. I don't want you to see if you're not going to pay attention cuz I want to sell one is the capabilities ads are effective. So if you're willing to and you feel like the value or getting out of this efficient, right and in which case and get something good out of it. Bras, I know Kabam has a focus on on multiplayer games. So when you think of these type of emerging ad formats related to multiplayer games that how does this fit and how are you evaluating effectiveness of our testing them against our regular

videos and we're seeing a LinkedIn user quality and retention based on that specifically said that alone is enough evidence for us that we should be moving into these emerging on from us and earlier today. I was watching the Facebook panel and I heard it with me and that is that giant platform like Facebook and Google they are moving towards automating all their optimization like machine learning and the buzzword. They're all familiar. Ask that continues to happen be if it is for the creative to perform is going to be that much more important. The performance is really

going to come from creative and having an ad formats that are AJ is India and Jacqueline you talk about the playable is being very efficient as unit. What what does that mean that I do really? Look at when it turned in terms of Engagement. It would be click through rate. And this is what we used as a basis of how when you do a b testing on our creative as you can see when we create those campaigns. There's two layers and layers and layers of targeting different optimization that were that we've been using and

so we want to make sure that we peel off all those layers and be able to really crack what is performing for each and different targeting that we have. For example, if your court what what works for one jar and works for a different genre and there's no clear-cut answer as to what type of playable works for Which Wich Diner right? So you really need to start Which lead in video will perform better for this type of genre for this type of targeting for this look alikes or interest groups that you're using. They really do behave differently than actual playable. Should we be

putting in more rounds? Should we be doing One race to race or all those components together? Right? We need to make sure that we really nailed those components down. Was the culprit want to hear what you have to say? There we go. That's going to help with that. Thank you. Thank you. Where was I I was in the length of the videos, right? You don't want it too short, you're not really giving them the experience that you're holding them to get. You don't want to be too long that it be too boring that you'll

just have them drop off before your your playable ends. And so those are the things that we're trying to test and see whether or not we can get any lift. So do you think that these new engagement ad formats are actually helping friends move over finally to game advertising. We all know what the obstacles are. We've all talked about Ad nauseam, but if we leave LeapFrog into the positive, are you hearing more positives about this type of advertising and games and maybe what questions are you still getting from brands? I'll jump off and say that you

know gaming is still a loaded term. Right? So, you know, no matter what we're still getting, you know, sometimes I'm surprising him. It's like 6 year old kids in their basement getting older like, you know, yesterday's players of like Super Mario Brothers are today's stock Brokers Wright mobile tell me lots of people have mobile phones presumably right and then almost all of you have a game on it. Congratulations. You're a gamer what we mean by Merit of the title of gamer. I think like one there's a little bit of a perception

issues in terms of humans of the actual including realistically. It's it's damn near everyone and then there in a think there's a bit of fear. I think still probably relegated to the more kind of quote on quote hardcore Gamers that they seen Brands go into the air and it's gone sideways and you know, generally again from the more hardcore side gamers are really cool with that. They played in a pay $60 per game. Why am I getting an ad? Cheddar cheddar like Ingo bad for you, but you know again that's that's one of those areas where you need to understand your audience and you need to

understand in terms of like what value again to harp on this this issue that day will be getting out of it. Otherwise it will fall flat. And again, it's a cynical audience in that regard but it's not impossible again particularly with the mobile audiences which are much more Broad in terms of overall Swat 2 of Game for so, I think those are the biggest issues but like getting around those, you know, you're looking at environment. They're largely brand safe so we can get your urine the right titles, you know, again, like I sell pelts Candy Crush has chocolate rivers and unicorns and

rainbows. Like there's not anything too offensive there unless those things kind of rub you the wrong way for whatever reason, you know, their people are going to be the ass particularly if the you know, there is something sent to the gation incentivization tied to it, but didn't their effective right and it again, I think the biggest issue that I tend to find is a disconnect with with advertisers the brands of particular is that they keep forgetting We should care that these brands have an outcome in the real world and we should be able to attribute that and it's not always easy. In

fact, it's quite tricky, but that should always be the north start like are any of these advertisements actually doing something meaningful for the business you're trying to advertise it for the most part again have done. Yes. The answer is yes, and it's just a matter of making sure that your time the the execution and the measurement to a correctly. Otherwise, you know, you're doing the format you're doing the game for doing a cortical gave me strategy for the sake of it and that's not doing anyone any favors. Anyone want to elaborate on that? If not one thing I

hear you talking about and things that I've heard at mobile growth Summit and you've all probably heard throughout the sessions you've attended here today is just as need to put the consumer first up for a whole host of reasons. So let's start with privacy and gdpr and California consumer Privacy Act. Where does that come into play in this game format? You want to start with let's have the whole notion of often. They often part of Ogden value Exchange. Death row I'm speaking specifically to GPR. I know that we giving advertisers were

all going through it right now, but I think it's really important as advertising becomes more widespread advertising people know that they have the right offs out and knowing that I'm not going to take your data and do something that you're not aware of. I think it's really important to understand that and entering this industry and learning about that myself have been a wild ride, but as consumer, I think it's really helped me as well. Cement and bread safety where does bread safety fit in this consumer equation. It seems so

obvious to put the consumer first, but in things like brand safety in terms of how you how you're developing your Brand's the type of advertising you're planning to bake into these games where does bread safety said it's from the mindset of transparency to the consumer to talk about number of times. I think it's also around the responsibility and advertisers over the last 12 18 months to really come to come to the table around sharing what to the consumer which hasn't really

been done probably as best. It should be quite some time and I think you seen on the news on a little bit wary of it and it's actually quite refreshing to have some of these pieces not coming to play to show that advertising have no it does have a roll and then also that we are being open and transparent. How about you two can chew I ain't giving you that power on the number. One reason for us blocking is add that don't load quickly on burdening your your battery life when you think about Playa bowls on single. How do you ensure that the ad load is is appropriate for

fallen. We want to make sure we do text them to make sure that the whole journey the whole experience is very safe because we don't want to see them dropping off. And so we do a lot of texting when it comes to when you load the campaign's when you load those playables up making sure that the tech issues are have already been debunked on our side. Also. I wanted to add that the changing it seems like with a gdpr it just wanted to add. Because of that change I've noticed that the

type of products that Facebook or Google is coming out now, they're trying to Target brought her on more broader audiences. And so that makes us even more want to test into trying to broaden that tunnel instead of targeting that core audience that we have. We want to make sure that this is not just the audience that we need to Target now. It's a larger audience and so we start testing those things is that more about audience targeting vs. Contextual targeting. So just brought her on her audience

people who are 34 years old that live in the midwest if I cookies three times a week, that's it. Like you could just hold that in right there. But you know, that's fine. And you know, we can we can talk about like Level data, which is Pinot a very big and looming question for for me the bigger platforms, you know, we can do we can talk about like, you know, how effective are like how much we want to be concerned about wastage. But from a pure practicality

standpoint like you want you want to talk to your best customers, but you was also want to talk to you like not so good customers right you and talk to the folks. That might not just be like, you're number one consumer that you can flip over to it right to there's even just opportunity costs associated with that but I think we got to focus into an Android with the possibilities there to take a stand back and look at the practicality of trying to again flip more people flip competitor Brands over to your what have you going to get like I think you gdpr and things like that are

inevitably a little bit of a reckoning on that but it's providing him in many respects like a good healthy level set in terms of like, you know, how do we think their practices for something as fundamental as targeting but one of things that's very fundamental to any execution you're going to have So when you think of these engaging ad formats, maybe I'll go back to the to the end cards and advertising can be used for upper funnel brand awareness. But also once you start getting in and card room, you can be much more in a Performance Marketing where you can actually get

consumers to take action take them off of the site. Collect first-party data give anything to share about performance. Shima experience is Paramount. So what are we done? You know playables between two units interactive and caused that call to action. I think it's super important and I think that's what we generally have been texting about it when I saw from a from a creative optimization and then keep getting that feedback to the client around Winchester the number of different opportunities around the way they can she make an engaging this is what Actually

popping chest and learn and dance interactive Inc. Experience is he's great at the actual consumer experience and telling them exactly how many their expectations or where they're going and what they going to do is always provided the kind of best return on investment. So, where do you stay in such as the next the next big wave is this just going to be an evolution of opt-in respectful light loading ads or did you see new ad formats on the horizon? I can we learn from any other Industries or do you think that other Industries are actually learning

from games and the effectiveness of what's happening with in the game advertising world? I'd love to think that they're learning from us but I am not convinced. That's true. You're starting to see often. Do you exchange across a n o t t and especially effective with and cards? They're so what started in it and game is everyone. Do you need a life watch this video you're getting on an uninterrupted out experiences on Pandora and Spotify. So look through what I was talking about.

The farther we were asked anyone to like white advertising and like we can kind of like lie to ourselves that like people always loved and not really right. Like it's always going to be like how ever could at least get to the Watershed of light. Are they okay with it, right? Do they understand why it's there do they recognize what they're getting out of it? And then you're kind of on the right path right like You know, we've been occasions. I think a particular the mobile world like a little duplicative in terms of like how people would essentially be monetized by Merit of

advertising. So once we can kind of dispense with that and just be upfront with you know, people are generally rational they do have like some degree of decision-making if you're actually being more forthright with them again don't pay attention to a message and it will the biggest push back that we got for a long time on things like in Enos and advise media was that will people are just doing it for the reward and they don't care about my brand Will Supply Co KY news about advertising in general for you because you know, that's not generally how people think there's more

there is a sense that they recognize that okay. This brain is connected to something that I'm getting from this like they're helping me at this point in this game. I'm invested in and do certain extent like that pays dividends when you're grateful for the opportunity and that like, okay. I'll pay attention to message to pay attention the message again, that's something Call register in terms of whether or not in an advertising campaign or advertising message was effective particular. So

Shimon, let's start with this one with the arrival of vertical video ads. Why do mobile games played in Native portrait orientation still make us rotate phones to view landscape video outs. I can say that the game that I mentioned earlier Marvel contest of Champions. It is play strictly in landscape so that we faced in the past, but you can exactly explain what it's going to look like on your phone and a vertical format. And that's why we're working on developing more and more because obviously some things I need to be tapped into

You're always going to be a little at Mercy of like what the format for the game, isn't it might just make more sense for the mechanics or not. But like the real, you know, the answer here, is that like we don't control what advertisements. Right like if it if it was shot in a certain way. That's what it is so I can get in something like Candy Crush is vertical and we love her to go video. Right like full screen looks beautiful. Awesome, but not a lot of it is a shot that way so a whole lot and its Landscapes up again. Like I think it's here to probably going to be a bridge too far that we

ask advertisers that always make sure that you're cutting your your content in both dimensions Rider if you're going to advertise with, you know, Marvel versus you know, Candy Crusher what how to make sure you have those different orientations ready. He practically that's not going to happen. However, I think it is important to keep in mind like, where are you placing your bets in terms of an advertisement to make sure that you are maximizing for you know, whatever orientation is cuz the games probably won't change though. I think it's an interesting to give people the

opportunity to change. Boys, like that's often tied to the mechanic. So it'll be a little bit more cemented. So it's one of those little bit of a car before the horse in terms of format. But in terms of video add length what brands and will be published in terms of video add length are Brands and mobile Publishers embracing the 15-second 6-second splash cetera formats. Where is the 30-second spot still came specifically for playable placement replacement matters a whole lot. If you are on the

stories, we want to be able to do that in 5 foot 10 seconds or even 15 seconds max. If it's like a video a video then maybe 15 30 seconds is where you want to be playable Zelda little bit longer than that because you're doing multiple runs depending on what genre it is. So Depends on what genre what game and the kind of experience that you wanted to give them think what we've seen on outside is 7 to 10 seconds for my unit performance standpoint of a video is actually the best. What is the best practice nothing of a 15 leaving from a brand standpoint anyting, you

know about 15 you really really high drop off TV commercial that you developed for daytime TV, you know anywhere their roles a lot more maybe work with a meteorite see from a friend standpoint anyway, but I would like to see them actually come to the table that more around, you know by the vena producing that TV spot, but it also having ammo How much more mobile Fest mindset I think we've seen sometimes that in the ass have given were produced in a high-end TV first mind said and moving them towards a mobile-first mindset. I would be ideal

to Jonathan. So Jonathan when trying to move app monetization techniques into PC on Console gaming, what are the economics from a product sales versus advertising perspective. There's a good question of like is that the Blessed place for it? Right? So if you are talking about a phone, but it's on like a PC or console experience. Does that make sense? If I'm interpreting the question which like I don't know which is good for the environment. Again, like

I don't know exactly how I mean I have an idea but like how things are going to look for me know when we have advertisements marketing experience is more in the grave more on the PC side versus the console side. Like we are heavily looking at it toward or towards a branding experience for a lot of ways like yes, I think there's room for performance to be integrated there, but it has to be something that is accessible from those devices which may or may not be in and out strictly speaking so bend in Norwood I try to you know sell that through to an Advertiser is such so, you know, they always

thinking about like, you know that we think about this a lot and not just thinking about the games but also been advertising experiences there in like, who is that person? What are they doing at that time? Right. So if you're playing a game on a mobile phones or commute maybe you're waiting in line, etcetera, etcetera quick-hit quick ratification Setter Setter. It's relaxation time. You're probably not working etcetera etcetera different mindset different concepts and terms of like what you're going to be receptive to it again. Something like an app installer. What have you so I guess

night mode will take away is like Don't Fit Don't try to force fit the goal to the experience would just make sure the goal in the experience or well line and then that's going to work out a lot better. But craving here given us a lot to think about in terms of engaging future forward-thinking and I think we have a charge here to help foot the by side. Adopt a mobile-first advertising mentality and games and across-the-board. So thank you all and thanks for attending.

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August 12 - 13, 2020
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