Course  Startup School 2019
July 22, 2019, Mountain View, CA., USA
Course Startup School 2019
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Kevin Hale - How to Pitch Your Startup
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About speaker

Kevin Hale
Partner at Y Combinator

Kevin Hale was the cofounder of Wufoo, which was funded by Y Combinator in 2006 and acquired by SurveyMonkey in 2011. He was responsible for Wufoo’s much-admired design and speaks widely about UX. Before Wufoo he wrote about design for Particletree and was editor in chief of the web development magazine Treehouse. He has a BA from Stetson University in Digital Arts and English.

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About the talk

Topic: Business

In this lecture, YC Partner Kevin Hale goes over how to package up your idea and communicate it to an investor. He shares his tips on how to craft your pitch in a clear and concise way that effectively grabs your audience's attention.


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Please give me part 2 of a talk. I gave at the very beginning of startup school on evaluating start-up ideas. And the thing to know about both of these talks as we've been talking about them from the point of view of the investor. Basically, it was helpful. I thought to explain to Founders how investors evaluate start-up ideas and looking at that structure so that they can better understand their own ideas opportunities. And then in this presentation resent them better to the people that they want to get excited. So quick recap in the

first part. I basically say a start of idea as a hypothesis for why your company is going to grow really quickly that hypothesis must compose of three different parts the problem the solution in the inside and the basic parts is your problem should be pretty big pretty pervasive have a lot of these characteristics to make it feel like there's a very big Market. Why do people have the problem the only thing you need to know about the solution is that you should not start with a technology. You should start with a problem. And lastly you're looking to have something that's going to make your

company unique and have some kind of unfair advantage that we call it Insight that will show while your company will grow faster than other companies. I talked about five different types of unfair advantages that your company can have and kind of what are the benchmarks for meeting them now. The thing to keep in mind about understanding and creating the startup idea is that I don't need you to do all the work that way all of that out in detail that stuff that you kind of want to know if you've been my but a really good investor will

do that on their own. They'll hear what you're talking about and extrapolate and so I'm going to come over in this presentation is how do you package up that hypothesis how you take all the things that you understand about your company and your startup idea and I resent it to an investor so that they can make a decision that's in your favor. This is the YC startup application and basically business the application all the questions that we ask that YC Partners. We used to evaluate your startup. So down here when you're filling out the YC application. We actually linked to a

couple of things and one of them is how to apply successfully. I can't tell because I read so many applications but it feels like Founders are not reading that essay was written by Paul Graham in 2009 and almost everything in there still holds to this day and people still make mistakes on it. So I'm just going to like point out some stuff. I really like punch it in here a while. I have your attention. So it was the quote on that essay. Basically, we believe for every company that we will interview at YC we bet

there's probably another company that's just as good as them out there, but they messed up on the application and we didn't realize it we didn't invite them and basically The reason is because they didn't Express their idea clearly but like you might think oiden show off all that complex stuff about my startup idea and that's why they didn't pick me. I want you to know that's not true. And so the first thing I want you to keep in mind as I do not need you to sell me as a YZ partner write a good

average investor, what they do is they talk to you when you tell them about your idea and it feels like they're poking holes. All the questions asked about what's all the reasons why this could go wrong a good investor. Does it the other way around to hear what you say and then imagine and they use their optimism and they use knowing that some kind of rare event has to happen for you to become a billion-dollar company in the trade. Imagine all those rare then possibly happen to you. And then they pitch that path back to you. And so we are really good at selling ourselves.

So you don't need to do that. And the thing is you guys are kind of bad. It's only things in the beginning, right and what I don't understand is that I'm trying to evaluate these three statements of what I'm hearing your idea. Do I understand it? Am I excited by it? Do I like the team and do I want to work with them surprise in your weekly updates? When you do your group sessions, these are the questions that we ask you to ask one. Another is basically the question is that we're trying to figure out for ourselves and withholding that every week when you talk with other companies you were

practicing getting feedback and understanding whether you're able to steal this in other people. So your goal is just to be clear. I will do everything else. So back to the application. These are the only two things were to focus on today. What do I put in the what's my company going to make how do I describe my company in a very efficient manner the first way to do this is to be clear. The reason we focus on this is cuz a clear idea is a foundation for growth what I mean by that is that the best companies NYC or around the world

grow organically. They grow by word-of-mouth. What does what does not look like looks like this. It's basically I talk about your company what you're doing making it said and I'm the most interesting person at the dinner table and I tell it to other people and those people want to tell other people that's it word of mouth is something where I remember what you do. I talked about it and Susie Astic and it spreads on its own marketing and advertising the tax. I believe companies pay because they did not make something remarkable. Now remember at the dinner table. What you do

you have to understand and so I have very simple rules for how to make things easy to understand. This will sound familiar if you're familiar with an essay. I wrote on how to design a better pitch deck and I'm going to focus on basically saying that the way I talked about actually works for ideas and lots of other things and so way I make things easier to understand on a pitch deck or a slide to make it legible and make it simple and make it obvious. Today's presentation. We're just going to focus on making your idea legible sound right

for clarity now in my essay I talked about how at demo day when are sharps are presenting to a roomful of a thousand investors is kind of an interesting audience. Number one. The audience is filled with really old people. They tend to not have very good eyesight as a result. They all can't sit in the front row. Like you lovely people some of them have to sit in the way back and stand up and that means if you create a legible slide, they have to be ones that even old people in the back row with bad eyesight can read. How does that apply to illegible idea?

Well, basically you are designing a slide that democratizes the idea. Right? And so people who are blind or people or ignorant. You're basically designing something for everyone in the room. Not just the ones in the first row so illegible idea and be understood by people who know nothing about your business that will make things very clear to the widest possible audience. Now this is super important because you will talk about your company more than anything else. It is actually the thing that we are really great at at y combinator. We have our companies

constantly practice talking about their startup startup School curriculum is designed around helping you constantly practice talking about your startup and this is because you are going to need a lot of people if you going to become a billion-dollar company, so you are trying to find a co-founder if you have to have a way of talking about your company clearly. But you're getting users or investors or employees or shareholders. You have to get really good at this and you have to be able to do it quickly and efficiently your things to avoid. That makes things not clear that

makes your IDM buddy. The first is ambiguity. So that's like obviously the opposite of clear or straightforward something a little abstract. Something could be interpreted in two ways. And therefore it might take a question understand what you'd kill complexity. So I was very specific definition of complexity. And so if you look at the root word simple and complex come from the same root and how things to do with twists or braids things that are simple or ones that are have one braid and things that are complex have multiple break their intertwined

with another one. Another a simple idea is one idea but does not fold a complex idea or ideas that are intertwined. So Simplicity means you are not trying to mix a bunch of things in your description. Mystery to this is an odd one. I mean is anyting where it's like I'm not going to understand what is going on. When you were talking about your company. Jargon is one obviously any words that I don't understand anything that's fake like indefinite pronouns. So if you just use this etcetera and you don't describe what those nouns are and

then things that you're just suggest that aren't explicit about And the last is ignorable. And so what I mean by that is there's some language that we will just ignore. So in ux design people will create a sort of blindness the things that they don't want to look at or they don't find it be important. So for example add blindness is a big one that people should understand and the thing is when you're talking about ideas, there's a way of using language that is also easily ignorable things that just won't stick in your head things like marketing-speak smell the stuff that you heard

about that NBA speak weird kind of like puff yourself up talk that doesn't give any extra information and then buzzwords. And so when you say certain types of words that as an investor, I've heard over and over again or I will equate with zero information or value that I will ignore them and the result is parts of your pitch will end up being not even heard by me and therefore I will not remember them. What you want to do is be conversational. A great pitch is one where you can tell it to your mom and she gets it. She's proud of you. Right

not going to shake her head. And that means it's got to be conversational and that's really good for word-of-mouth because we talk in normal conversational speak. We don't talk like an MBA. We don't talk like CEOs all the time. So it's best to talk conversationally. Again avoid jargon words that are only you understood are used by your industry. No Preamble have some examples of this. But if you want to be clear, let's go straight to what you want to talk about. Let's not have a winding path to eventually getting their last one was a big one is being

reproducible. So when I hear your idea, can I imagine in my mind can I? See what I would have to build create your company. I don't have that that I've no picture in my head about what your company does and until I have that picture. I can't ask any of the questions that helps me understand why men get excited about you or understand other nuances of your business. To make things reproducible. I need to know nouns. I need to have objects that I'm going to Magic in my head and there's three types of nouns that I should

understand from your shirt idea. First one is what are you making? She really clear. What is the problem? And then who is the customer that you are kind of related to the market? Right, but I should have these kind of three nouns. In my pad, so let's go see some examples. This is says we are going to transform the relationship between individuals and information. That sucks. The things we see this all the time number one all the nouns that you have seen you down here or

abstract but ideas. I can't reproduce based off of this has zero informational value. I still have to ask questions to answer the three nouns that I need to have. This is a bad description for a company. We will see stuff that starts like that. So we have to describe what your company's going to make. I don't want to read it. But basically it's starts talking about the story of the company or basic is like in the beginning there was this problem and we're going to go through this issue. Right? And then there's these bad guys and they showed up but then who's going to

save us we're finally here to read another thousand applications. That's not going to work for me. This is the description on the actual application that Airbnb put to YC Airbnb is the first Online Marketplace that lets Travelers book rooms with locals instead of hotels is a dice is descriptive. I understand what they're building have a sense wrote they're making and then I can start thinking about my other two ideas of whether I'm excited about it. And then am I going to like this team? Does Dropbox chicken noises files across your or

your teens computers? The thing about this is It's refreshing would also there's no pretense. They don't they aren't playing defense. I see a lot of company of descriptions were there like I'm worried about this or I've gotten this kind of feedback until they give up Clarity to make themselves look bigger and blow themselves up or make them self. Try to look more interesting. They're trying to protect themselves against something away ahead of time. And the whole problem is usually would end up doing is it brings me farther away from you all that

padding that you put on yourself is a description from a company in the current batch aluminized building x-ray vision for soldiers and First Responders. We don't have to go deep into the details. I don't need to understand how they exactly do. This Etc this. Read the foundation for my curiosity now. I will start from here to try to figure out how do this is this the right team to do this. How far along are they do they have traction do they have customers? I start going down the route of asking all the right questions. They self this

one description is a good one. Is another one survive in the current batch is building LinkedIn for the next billion internet users. so doesn't perfectly connect me to with their sort of making but I'm intrigued I'm excited about someone building a LinkedIn and I know it's some kind of social network for business people. So now I'm curious about how I don't need you to answer how in the description but I understand what you're doing. And then now I can start making questions in my head about like how

would I evaluate whether this is working or successful or promising or not? This is the right team. Do they have a certain amount of traction Etc gets me on the right track. Reason. I've used this example is because we have a lot of companies who try to use the X for y And what I mean by that is like LinkedIn for whatever or Uber for blank or Airbnb for blank and to the extra why is super useful because it allows you to shortcut business model and some kind of complex Behavior, right? And then attach it to some other vertical is something that you were trying to make

work. Esther white is okay, but most people abused it or do it incorrectly give you some tips first. Should you use extra y number one is X a household name that should be like a billion dollar company where you can't use your uncle's Like Pat shoe store as the acts for this cuz people don't know your uncle pet shoe store. They don't know if it's successful or not. Right? So everyone has many people should know about this as possible and for an investor should be clear that it's a billion

dollar company opportunity. Everyone has to agree that it is successful. So you could have a really big X everyone knows about it, but Infamous, right? So the people don't think it's a successful. So be careful. What does y want X really clear? Yv Target that you're going after want this kind of model apply to it this kind of solution apply to it whether they are being before or B&B or Uber for ETC. It should be really clear that that's a segment. That's why they're missing it not

being served. Well by the other one and also that those people want to have that kind of model. And then third one is why I should be a huge market. So if you're building X-4y and then the last part doesn't sound like a really big business that's not going to work well for you. I think so we want cuz you're essentially saying that you are something but that's a subset and what we want to make sure that subject feels like it could be really really big if you choose us up that that sounds like it's going to be really really small that's

just won't be as interested. Does it mean it means that I'm worried that you will not have enough potential Headroom to grow to become a billion-dollar company. So here's an example that doesn't work. So we are coming The Bachelorette shirt off by describing the cells of buffer for Snapchat buffer is a nice company, but definitely smaller than Snapchat so don't want to do that. All right. So basic summary for the section lead with what not why or how you don't need all that other stuff

that stuff gets in the way of your Clarity for the most part. I'll read like a thousand avocado vacations every single batch and it's a really hard thing to do. Basically even though it's my job. It's really really difficult to have that much focus of attention across all these different applications. So I need some empathy. I need you to help me out. And what we want is that when I bring up your application, I'm looking at it. Let's make our intimate time really pleasurable. Right? Let's make the time that I spend on an idea very efficient house look at it. I don't

understand really clearly. I'll move around your application be like Oh, I'm kind of excited. Maybe there's going to have this and I'll look at that part of my called. They do have it. That sounds awesome. Oh, what about this? That sounds awesome to what we don't want is me to go like Then I have to go to your website and then I don't know what they're talking about. I don't know how this would have worked. If I go back to it. I try to figure something else out. I try to see if I could some other partner might understand what you're doing. It's super inefficient. Where is there

going to be room for me to get excited as a result? We need to be concise concise the best way. I want to keep this in mind as to use some examples and so do some things I need you to keep in mind. Yes. I want you to be concise use as few words as possible. And what it wants you to understand is the concision is actually gives me secondary information about you as a team. It lets me one know that you have thought deeply about your idea because you thought so deeply about it. And because you practice

talking about it so much and you've gotten really good at getting people excited and understand everything really quickly. You probably figured out how to do it in a short amount of time. So let me know that this is a Founder that is thought deeply about the idea that thing about being concise and shows me that you are efficient. And if you are efficient with your words and you're probably efficient with your thoughts, that means you're probably also efficient with your actions and what that means is that I will start to believe that you understand what is most important about your business

and it sounded communicating clearly and you might know how to always figure out the most important part of what to do about your company to make a grow to make it work, etc. I doubt it's a minimum stuff that we want to have even though we're trying to be as concise as possible again, I want to understand the nouns. So if we're so concise that I can't understand these then your condition is too much. The other is I want to get to this point when I read the concision or the short version of whatever it is you're talking about cuz again, I know there's like a

hundred thousand reasons why your company is great, but when I'm eating your application, I'm only going to remove you remember two to three of them. And so we have to try to make sure those most important one come up to the top. This is a real startup School company description. Did online e-commerce store? I can picture what it is. But again, it's not a description that helps me get excited about it. It doesn't help me lead to all the other things I have to do now more work to understand why this is fast-growing and its potential. I also don't know based on this some

nouns. I don't know exactly who the customer is. Is it people that is selling stuff too. Are they making an e-commerce store for other shop owners ambiguity? It Security Services. This is most of the trip scriptures that we see on start school and makes a really really hard for us to understand up. America credit decision support system the thing is I want to know for what? I don't even understand what the problem is that they're solving based off of this and so Is it for is it because a lot of people have non

Daisy? I have to ask me questions in my head figure out. Why did they get to the sort of description? Learn and sharing knowledge about data science and artificial intelligence Mission. I can't tell what the product is and how this way to go about it. Like I couldn't reproduce it. If I had 10 companies build based off this description. You have 10 very different products. The only thing that's odd about the command descriptions is you guys tend to capitalize and make proper nouns that weird words and phrases. You should not do that. It's not like a magazine title

and it makes me think sometimes you're emphasizing the wrong things like you were thinking the data science and artificial intelligence is Athena's going to make me excited and the thing is like those are the first words. Those are the solutions and makes me worried that you haven't started with a problem. What's an example of like how to adjust adjust his much longer one to our company will make low cost and low power consumption medical devices based on artificial intelligent and I would be suitable for sub-Saharan communities

relatively clear. I can understand it reading it but it's not the most concise form of this and I feel like there's a lot of things get in the way when I work with companies to help shrink and reduce and improve their descriptions so that I will get the most out of it when I talk to you the process of the first thing I want to do figure out what are the nouns In the description of our company medical devices for sub-Saharan Community associate. We're almost done. right everything else that gets added on here, whatever verb adjectives or adverbs

you want you want to be really careful you want to know like is it getting maximum Punch or this right? And so Really the verb is going to be using just your making something Etc. But usually it's going to be whatever the product like the verb is like the thing that we're making everything about the active voice structure the subject the verb and then the object the customer the market the people were going after everything else. If you add anything back to this, I really want to be a careful about why we're going to head back to it. Is that going to be the

stuff that makes me excited to the artificial intelligence and iot suitable stuff. That's like how they want the technology and I'm more worried that they're wanting to use Buzz words to describe it right? Hopefully that's like a secret weapon that you have but I bet it's not the defining characteristics of whether this company successful or not. And then up here right to choose modifiers for medical devices low cost low power consumption. The low-cost I could definitely see that's super interesting. Give me a low-cost device and sub-Saharan community and I'm like, oh that's

really interesting. Cuz that's like it's hard just to make something, you know for developing countries with the make it so that actually affordable for them that be interesting the low power consumption. I can give or take their I got to know more about the company or no, whether that's actually crucial to understanding why this company has an unfair advantage or not. So if I was a redo this week, I'm out to be creative for the medical devices for sub-Saharan Africa. Some people are going to be very squeamish about this. A lot of Founders are worried. It's like you're putting me in a box man

productive. My business is complex. I do a lot of things in a lot of things make me great. I want to tell you all of them and the thing is like you don't have time and I know it as an investor. There was no one that showed that thinks any business is like simple and easy. I just don't think that from the default so you shouldn't be worried that I'm going to think something small of that. But I got you want to be careful of the defense on your once I get to this then I'll start asking the other questions agree set foundation for curiosity.

Premature at the end the best way to help me and I would love for you to help me is do be clear and concise. Thank you very much. All right, so we'll do a couple of questions about this presentation. And then I have a door Joy me and then won't answer questions about anything. All right here. Thanks for the presentations having you talked a lot about what is presenting an application. But you also hear a lot of pictures specially in demo day and what in your opinion are the killer tips to make a

great pitch and get people to like you enough in a devil day care about writing an idea for the application house that might be different for companies were pitching or protecting investors on like a demo day what are things that we look for and so I talked about in that essay that about how to pitch how to design a pitch deck and talk about like how to preserve the idea. The main thing to keep in mind is that it's only describe the situation so demo day at y combinator like a thousand people in the room and you have 2

minutes to talk about your company and show what you've built to get them excited and then there's going to be two hundred other companies that will do the same thing on the stage it extremely hard problem and so in two minutes, what do you get across? How do we get it? So that in two minutes a company on average will then raise 1.5 million dollars after demo day and the thing to keep in mind is that yes, there's a hundred reasons why your company is great. You cannot say all of them in 2 minutes. You can't say them in a short conversation when you're meeting a bunch of the bastards

inside of the room is like maybe 5 to 6 points. That are really really great about your company may be the investor. Remember one or two of them. One of them has to be remembering what you do? And so the goal of you being on stage is not the say all the things that's great about your company is to get people to want to have a conversation with you this a like I can't ignore having a conversation with that person. That's what a great picture. What that means is you don't make the slides be the thing that they remember you want to make yourself. It's about your presents the way you

talk how confident you are etcetera. Basically, do you present yourself in a way that people go I want to interact with you and so the presentation is more about making the founders look formidable and impressive to use a language that everyone understands and is clear but feels inevitable. And so the goal is not to do all this fancy stuff is to do very simple fundamentals and talk about them in a way so that everyone under Apple iPhone x in one question though is the bane of my existence before what's this surprising or amusing seeing that you've noticed that the world

is it something about business or is it like something witty you like? I just I spend all explain what you So share something surprising amusing that you've noticed about the world and he's think I'm having a hard time with a question and so any tips about that. So again, I don't really good idea if I talked a lot about how to present your idea, but the idea is a reflection of how you think so everything that we have an obligation as it tried to understand more about the team and the people were behind the company. So

question like that is very obvious and lets us know. How do you think about stuff what do you find interesting or amusing because part of it is that why I see is optimized to spend time with lots of people every single week for dinner. And I want to spend time with people. I like people who are not assholes and it kind of interesting. Right. And so that kind of question basically a dating question letting me know like oh, I want to buy this guy dinner. Maxsamples

it's a very specific financial problem that I'm trying to attack. So should I work on trying to make that very complex in very specific problem something that anyone understand or should I talk to the right people that understands that type of property complex in Tech solution or app and he's wondering if like, how do I balance this talking to the right people so I can use jargon and understand the complexity versus making a person of the idea that everybody can sort of understand the

answer is you have to do both. So everyone that you're talking to it industry your users customers are your business partners you get a short cut with them and that's most of the people you're going to interact with. And the thing to know about that is you need to have that developed right that customer business partner to speech so that you were efficient and talking with them the things you also have this other one. If you're interested in outside investment having the Press want to talk about you consider. You need to have a good storytelling narrative for non-experts. So really it is

not one or the other is how you have to do both and the thing is for fintech people cuz they're so much around all these other people just understand the stuff. They really practices other thing because they just assume it's always going to be like that, but when they come to buy see the first time they want money from The Bachelor tonight. Know about their space or they want to talk to press who's not going to understand what they're doing. Right here sitting down. So, how did the best most

memorable applications make me feel the best one make me go like I want to join their company. That's like the best one right? It's like Mandy's guys seem really cool the super smart. Like I'll learn a lot of stuff from them man. How do I get on their bandwagon? Right like I'm thinking about quitting YC is flour be like the best ones possible in the second-tier. It's really just like energized cuz what I'm reading tons of applications, I just don't understand what's going on or I feel like people wasted a lot of time on the wrong

stuff. I'm just getting frustrated like when I hit an application for all of a sudden it goes like I was a breath of fresh air and spend time with them. I want to ask him a bunch of questions. I get very curious and then I like want to jump around the room. I'm a very active guy. So like think it's like a door got excited. She's like drinking lots of water. Some like that but really the best ones are the ones that makes us wish we had done the company or that we would join them. That's the best. Right here. Where the hell are very important

for the idea, how can you include them? How can I watch them? Okay, so I talked a lot about focusing on the what and then kind of avoid the how and the why but they might be really important. How do I include them? You will not include them in the description. They will be included elsewhere. So there's questions on the application that I asked you about. How are you going to get your users? What is inside that you understand about the business and no one else does how you came across this Etc. So there's opportunities

Elsewhere One thing to keep in mind is I would highly recommend trying to keep your answers within one to two paragraphs at the most that makes it for an application. That's very skin bubble by me. So the whole thing is the how and why is important but you can't just stay at all at all at once but sometimes you'd like talk to someone and they're telling a story but they're trying to tell everything about everything all at once and if it feels like he's not giving you time to breathe or think you want to go to avoid that context. I'll be there. Enthusiastic earlier

question. So how do you know if a company's on the right path to product-market fit? So if you ask a question do I have product Market fit? The answer is probably know you probably don't right. But if you're so busy and you're frightened that the company is going to fall apart cuz you have so many customers coming and asking them for you and you're just figuring out. How do I hire? How do I serve everyone that wants to come to me? You're too busy to ask that question cuz you're just making money hand-over-fist that's on the right path. the whole thing of

that feels like something else changing the company. It feels like you are out of control. So if you are in control of your company, you feel like you can relax when you're sleeping. Well, you're not on the right track. very few companies that far back Okay. Can talk about your experience doing this is because right now you're on the other side of the story so you can go back to when you were a plant white communities around a small and I thought about when I applied the YMCA in about how this sort of reply when I apply the Y

combinator. I was really bad at describing what our company does so we actually have pitched two different ideas. They told us to prepare for both and when we got into the interview one of the ideas immediately said not interested and the other idea we need to hit it pivoting in the middle of dinner View. And so the way I describe the company in the beginning was I said, we are building a Content management system that have the concept reversible form that allows you to put potatoes and put in from the back end and also collect data from users on the front end. That's a horrible

description the company and our that idea that fed. That is like I wanted to be a Content management system. Cuz what was hot at the time it was Buzz where they was movable type in WordPress. We wanted to go software like that. And we wanted to build a new version of this and then I added not even normal dark and I made up. Jargon that I put into my description and I pitched it was like, I don't know what you're talking about. But do you like I think you're building a form Builder? And then we were like no. No, we looked at everyone in that space. They suck their really

bad. We don't like what they're making. We don't want to be there not realizing that was the opportunity. Everyone was really bad there but their businesses that still succeeded and so that's like the clear example to other side and so I actually spent a lot of time like a door and I spent a lot of time being mentally in our heads what you guys are making or doing and do I actually have to wear reading applications. A lot of times to Partners have to basically you describe a tree pitch back what you're making so that way they can understand why they're going to get excited. I'm going to do

one more question. And then we're going to do combo breaker body for Dad you need to do asking why so how do you tell and describe an idea that has multiple stages? Like you have to do part 1 before you can do part 2 and 3, I would focus only on describing what part 1 is. and then later on your talk about what are the other faces that are important now often times when I hear something like that or YC partner will immediately I'd like an alarm go on their head and they really are going

to put you on why do we really have to do part 102 push so hard and why can't we go straight to part 3 because what you're basically saying is like It sounds almost like a defense instead of using a strategy. It sounds like it's like hey, I'm going to talk about with my company's doing but I'm worried that you're going to think it's really small. So don't worry. We're going to do part 2 and 3 they going to be even bigger. And the thing is that's a really weak pitch doesn't sound very confident Etc. Now will you want a boy? This ain't like we're doing what you could do is if we're

doing number 3 and we're starting with number one, but I have to be very efficient. The number 3 is very quickly can be said and that number one makes it sound so it's like I want to build automated market, and Company today and they want to make automated marketing software for WhatsApp for small medium businesses and their starting with hair salons. Another going to move on to all the other industries that need help with that. Alright. Thank you very much.

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