Womxn, Wellness and Cannabis Conference 2020
May 27, 2020, Online, Toronto, Canada
Womxn, Wellness and Cannabis Conference 2020
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Womxn in Leadship Panel (WWC Conference 2020)
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  • Description
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About speakers

Barinder Rasode
Executive Co-Chair at Havn
Rosy Mondin
CEO & Director at World Class Extractions
Alison Gordon
CEO at 48North
Marcie Kiziak
President at NOVA Cannabis
Bridget Hoffer
Co-Founder at Marigold Marketing & PR
Lisa Harun
Advisor at MaRS and CoFounder at Vapium

Founder NICHE Canada, SheTalks & @botaniqmag. Co-Founder @cannabiswise. Co-Founder & CEO @growtechlabs. Fraser Health Board of Directors. Elected City Council.

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Ms. Mondin is the founder of the Cannabis Trade Alliance of Canada (CTAC) and currently serves as special advisor to the Association of Canadian Cannabis Retailers (ACCRES).In 2016, Ms. Mondin participated in consultations with the federal Task Force on Cannabis Legalization and Regulation and at the Senate Standing Committee to provide input on the Cannabis Act. Rosy also founded Soma Labs Scientific which amalgamated to form Quadron Cannatech Corporation. Quadron listed with the CSE in January 2017, making her the world’s first female founder CEO of a publicly traded cannabis company.Currently Rosy is CEO of World-Class Extractions after the merger with Quadron.

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Marcie Kiziak is the President of NOVA Cannabis, an ALCANNA company. Marcie moved into this role after two years as the SVP, Human Resources for Alcanna and 15 previous years in the oil and gas and construction sectors focused on HR leadership, business optimization, M&A, and integration. She’s a strong supporter of post-secondary education and serves on program advisory committees for NAIT and Norquest College.

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Bridget is the co-founder and President of Marigold PR. Bridget was previously the head of communications for CBC. As a media executive, Bridget lead Canada’s news, radio and television brand, marketing and communications

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Lisa Harun is Chief Marketing Officer of GS Holistics. Lisa is an investor, advisor, tech lover, and the driving force behind brands spanning fashion, advocacy, and medtech. Lisa is also the co-founder of Vapium, a medical cannabis hardware company and has been featured in the Top 100 Women in Cannabis.

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About the talk

Get inspired by womxn in top leadership positions. Hear from founders and CEO’s from innovative cannabis companies.

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Good morning. I'm over and over Saudi and I think we're just letting everybody join the zoom room for this amazing discussion on women in leadership. And I will probably just do a little bit of an intro for myself and then he asked each one of our panelists doing intros. Well, I'm in Vancouver right now and on a beautiful sunny day in my apartment and I am the CEO Protech Canada National education jobs, and now I hate life and I'm especially excited today,

but I think collectively we can continue to take this industry to where it needs to be and one of the things that's really important is the activist in this industry have had very great representation from women leader. And one of them is with us. The new industry, you know what Allison Gordon and Marcy Chris Isaak and Bridget prosper and Lisa Haroon have played such a pivotal role and I think it's really important for us to know where do we go from here is women in leadership positions. And how do we create more of those positions Rosie? How about you

and talk a little bit about the balance of both the advocacy and the business role? I think women, you know, I make broad General statements, but it is because I know that we are all about like a success and we are wired to be nurturers in a very positive way and I don't shy away from some of those words that aren't often used in traditional boardrooms, but the balance between advocacy in business is sometimes a real challenge for women, isn't it has been very aggressive and assertive in a

positive way. women sometimes that balance becomes a little bit of a. Definitely in this industry was a dance because when we first started lobbying hi, I'm Rosamond. So I miss CEO of world-class extractions. And I also found in the industry Alliance in Canada, and we were very heavily involved in logging with respect to Bill c-45 through the house and all the way up the sent it I absolutely love that work because for sure is very very very clever as when it keeps the Senate that was asked to put together a paper to refute some information. I was coming

up from the US and I put out a call to I think was 22 people in two and a half weeks. That was an amazing experience and I think his business leaders and his women and mean it is a gender-specific. I think we did great and we had a mix of men and women and I know I think of the way I approached it illegal that people were really Putting their hands up against and having a woman come into this and it being able to say when a lawyer and a woman I am a cannabis user notwithstanding. This is a

public health issue that needs to be addressed. And as long as we weren't asking the legislators if they smoke weed themselves mean it was it it all went. Well, I think his Business Leaders. It's incumbent upon us to be at the Forefront of advocacy and lobbying because we know this business well in the legislators don't we're constantly having to push this is a very new industry and I still see this it's new for god sakes cannabis 2.0 just started in October and we've been saying from the beginning of probably take 7 to 10 years for this industry to become where it should be probably 5

for the illicit Market to get more fully absorbed into that legal market. So it's great. I mean whether it's in business when logging vibration is the key and I think his women we do do it very, well. Not that we don't collaborate with other genders, but we're really good at Clean everybody together. Bridget I'm a little bit about yourself. And also I'm your experience. I'm having been with CBC. I'm in India for a long time. Definitely. I think brings a very interesting perspective as well to different components of leadership

solutely. Hi, I'm Bridget Hopper. I'm Katie Pringles of business partner and we have healthy are so on half of Marigold. Thank you everyone for being on the panel or advisory and the fabulous audience. It's just growing Communications and I think that as as as women beaters, we really need to focus on our communication style. We need to take credit for what we do. We need to kind of phone are power a car Power a challenge as as Rosie was saying it is a challenge for you

know, it's not just genders but many of us have been nurtured or corporate. Programs are trying to sort of stay in a place and you know take your power and don't take things personally. I did a project management course while I was at CBC and I learned about you know, being analytical emotionally neutral Etc and taking that and working with all of the women that I worked with in leadership Stars print cuz it's really understanding what you're communicating what your what your body language is how your symbolizing and

various you do projections. Like are you are you are you a highly credible journalists? Are you a smart leader? Are you somebody who's going to generate that sense of collaboration that sense of leadership and that's been open this but at the same time, you know taking credit for what you do and taking your power and moving moving yourself forward of those are some little aspects. Bikes that I think are are very relevant and congratulations on a successful. I heard well over 800 people have signed up

a Marcy, you know Human Resources is a science and a bit out of the vehicle in a lot, you know, welcome and how about, you know from your perspective but it's sort of those things that you noticed as you've given it from, you know, you work in the whole Space of corrosion to a charge now cannabis through house that Journey been for you. Sure, if ya hear buddy, my name is Marcy cuz ya can the president of Nova I don't care. If you don't it's been an interesting Adventure prior to stepping into this role. I was in HR for about 15 years in oil and

gas. Which is a very difficult environment to be an especially the female but I can tell you and Bridget said some really interesting things that I think are really important that we as women we think about voice control was one of the first things I had to learn as an executive in as a professional but for some reason when speaking in front of people instead of lowering my voice had a tendency to just need to go up an octave and there's a lot a lot of credibility pieces that are attached to that. Can you put in terms of pivoting from HR into cannabis operations and then and

then leading Nova leadership is about people right of the people. It's about culture. And it's about people you do an understanding people and how to identify Talent MN how to help grow that Talent is really pivotal when it comes to leadership. And so I think that that's probably the most natural natural a piece of going from HR and operations is really understanding that but I would say that's probably where it was most most beneficial or but in terms of women in leadership, Why do I sometimes feel like there's not enough women in leadership? And as a younger

professional didn't have any female mentors on the trees were all mail and didn't have any women step up or engage in a mentorship relationship. And now I have a very strong network of other women leaders that just helpful, but I think his women leaders mentoring other women is critical and that is something I think we need to start looking at and make sure that we are you know, we're sharing our knowledge. We're helping other women out helping Junior women out. That's where I think that that that real. The real ship should be. Thank you. At least I'm

admiring the fact that you worked at Mars Innovation is sort of something that I paid a lot of attention to you. I'm probably one of the oldest I'm at a summit bid against organized here in Vancouver is a key part of the Cannabis industry is redefining and tell us a little bit about how you're working Innovation into what you're doing now. That's an excellent question on good morning. Everyone really pleased to be here and it's nice that feels less like we are combined by these

four walls or as many walls. However, you're blessed, and it's so nice to see beautiful shiny faces and and an innovation Innovation as has been woven throughout my career from from the get-go actually back in the.com. So we don't need to talk about age printer bless you back in the job, this I was making money for other people and Innovation for me that nothing. Play when we started building websites for the first time in your life exist. And how are we created? We solving for those and I think that that's the Crux of innovation. It's not necessarily trying to reinvent the wheel but making

things easier and then looking at technology seamlessly integrates into our lives, you know, you don't want something most people want something that that brings ease and comfort into their lives. And and I think that's the interesting opportunity that we've had. I'm in cannabis is looking at how do we look at the the modalities of consumption? That's obviously the arena that we've been playing in for a number of years and how do we make it? How do we bring comfort and comfort? I think means a lot of different things. I think it means safety. I think it means Quality

Construction thoughtfulness and then you know, Coming back to it. It also means you know, what is the team? What is the story? Are we are we making things for the sake of making things are we making things because of the fact that it makes people's lives better. Thank you. I I was gone there for a minute. I don't know if anybody noticed but I am definitely your experience and development carpet. I'm very personal brand and how much do a little bit about your path on friend. Yeah, and you know, it's still interesting hearing whatever Wednesday and I come from such a

non-traditional backgrounds. I've always lived in an entreprenuer. So I'm listening to CBC trains you how to speak and all of this and I just want to call my son. And then I'll come back to the personal brand point which is why I don't have any of that and I think I came out it from a different way of the woman which was very much like I am different and I'm going to stand out and out. Phases industry in 2013 when I joined let you know I've always been a cannabis. Regulated industry in 2013. It really was I'm going to actually

my voice will be as loud as it needs to be and that works for me. But I get that it doesn't necessarily work for everyone and I think that it's interesting that you talk such a personal brand. I think that was a big part of it was I've always just been allowed person who is out there and. In the age of Instagram seems to be warm or sometime. So I believe that I was able to tie these things together in a different way than one might have been able to as a woman in the past and say this is this is why people

like me and follow what I'm doing and I could use my personal brand in an industry. Didn't allow you to Brandon market. So, you know how Canada doesn't tell me what to do on my own personal Instagram. And as I was building my own following I could do That's the build 48 North as I founded the company and started to do all of that. So I do think there's many Journeys to leadership for women and it makes me sad to think that we should have to temper our personalities I get it, but I do think there's lots of different ways to go about it.

Brenda you're muted. Thank you. Sorry I you know that's a very interesting point. I do agree that it is very discouraging that we have two other temper or mold our personalities and I think one of the things that I get asked Austin by women who are wanting to enter the space is the question of how do we Define ourselves where where either one of us to activists to come from the culture or where business women or Mom's eye but we really want to fit into this corporate culture. We want to see that the boardroom table. We want to be in the c-suite and how

many of salmon how I have felt is that you have to learn to tell a different story about yourself for people to view you a different way. I'm so I'd like to open the floor and just heard of maybe with the show. What are some of the messages you would say to those women who come to me or we have been being one of those women were asking those questions where it's so unfortunate. Like you have to give it in some way Chris leads fit in. anyway Why can't I can continue on that path and say I don't think you have to put

it to fit in at me? Look it all depends. If we're talkin about the Cannabis industry. Obviously. This is a lot of startups is entrepreneurial. We're not talking about going to be the CEO of the royal bank, right? This industry should be more creative than it is. It should be breaking a lot of these barriers that were talking about. It isn't but I do think there is probably more wiggle room. So look on the one and I'm saying I didn't control my voice and I was me and I was always need thought it by 5 in the boardroom. I mean I was to see of a public company and I'm terrible at bath and I

would be right there in the meeting crazy money being like you do help me with the math. You're somebody so I was unapologetically me, but I'm not going to deny that I have to spend however long denim dress to make sure that I had the right combination of Corky for weed but Professionals for the day. It is definitely difficult, but you can do it. I think you have to Tashan to me is what overrides everything else when someone sees your passion and your brains there it can get past a lot of the other thing. So to me, it's show your passion and be offensive because people will see right

through you pretending to be something you're not that's just five. and if I run into a circle I'll jump in for a sec. If I can just build on what Alice and was saying in terms of a personal brand and understanding what I said earlier. Yes. There is a challenge in terms of how many of us were programmed initially but it's really important that we break out of that and take your own voice and understand your brand and so in terms of your personal brand there's a clear and what you stand for and being able

to articulate that and look at what you're what what your team and the people around you and your leadership style is going to the Define because what you stand for allows for a value match with your team at enhances the products that you're working with and in developing and selling but it also creates an emotional connection with you as a leader and I think that's very important. I can swim in. Brittany you're always on mute. I'm going to unmute myself permanently and

I'm going to say and do what Allison says and although it's a little tempered as well in the we are both CEOs that are CEOs of a public company. So we always have also in mind and being mindful of shareholders and they put their money investing in you and your team and as much as you have to be cognizant to balance out how much you want to put yourself out there and and be on social media and all that and all of that is well at the same time balancing the objects of that and again, I don't know if it's gender-specific is how I look at it but you know

shareholders can be very moment. They absolutely love you and then the next moment they despise you so you want to temper how much time you might be spending and and and temper your messaging because they'll look at that is like you're spending too much time on social. Why aren't you focused on the business and then you have to explain will this is still moving the business for we were talking about the business we're talking about a mission has or even the advocacy side. So I find I don't know if it's because I'm a woman but I find that I definitely watch that a little bit more like when

things are really busy or that there's a shift I'll definitely go a little bit more quiet because I am just hyper focus on what needs to be done versus putting myself out there. So weird balance the other thing I hear from them a lot is that you need to have thick skin in this business and I find that kind of funny because I find you know, they they are actually quite emotional and I'll be the one who comes into temper that emotions they will know you should look at it this way and stopped it in your heels and perhaps we should like looking at a way to negotiate this rather than you

know, everyone just pulling your fist out. So that's another thing. I find appealing woman is with contempt for those emotions quite a bit in the boardroom. Am I see you made the point earlier at you about just your voice what I found interesting is it it's not it's not me behaving professionally that tends to raise eyebrows. It's me. Behaving as Wattpad to help people should in the Cannabis culture. And so that's a bit of a different shift for me because you know, I tend to always try to behave as professionally as I can but that's

interesting. Another thing will just add quickly from a woman's perspective. What are the keys I think to my success has always been that I've always been really humbled opportunities. And so I've been taking on New Opportunities and jobs and all sorts of things that I never had the opportunity to do the key is learning when you're being taken advantage of right and so for me, that's what's been really most important is being humble taking on opportunity. It looks like the potential taking on the the president role of Nova SS but who was previously the senior vice

president of HR weird jump right to get a real job is really the important piece of that. That's a very good point Lisa centered around around meals for better or worse. I started working my way up story short. Yes, I don't even know what you call that. We should that we need to apologize for forgetting upset or being angry or or looking at it going. I want Justice. Sorry. I need those little bit of a crazy face. I hate you know what I look at it going. I I I I will fight for what's right, right. And then again, I do my best. I also have to employ this is is to not

apologize when I'm standing up for what's right. I think the second part of that is when you do get a seat at the table make your voice heard and make it calm and make it distinct because of the fact that yelling. It's like calling somebody crazy you call somebody crazy or you told me to calm down. Those things are going to give you the exact opposite of the reaction that you're trying to enlist it. And so I think it's one where when when when you turn on your ears and end. Kick, everybody's opinion and I think that's one is such a strength of women is is

we're always willing to listen and we take everybody's opinion around and and we make the best decision and I think I'm going back to Rosie and Allison Pointe is ultimately it's at the best of what's best for the company write an end to not be do not think that and I think there's some examples that have happened recently. Where do you look at Capitol Wright bring it up to one day. They love you one day they hate you and at the end of the day, we have to look towards profits towards building Enterprise value

towards towards actually solidifying the foundation. We we've been playing at it. I think for a few years and I think that there are some really strong characters that have come into the industry, but I think we're miles we have miles to go. I definitely had one of our participants is actually asked that question is how do you deal with the challenge that seems to be consistent with his women being viewed as aggressive my personal experiences that either you're too aggressive or when it's time to raise capital or bringing dollars to seals you're not aggressive enough

and it was earlier. Where is used almost in a contradictory way for me through my career and Industry definitely now, but can we talk a little bit about that horrible word United States has anyone ever freaking brings that up? I said I'm being very direct and very clear. What do you not understanding very simple? That's good language. Calling a time when somebody says you're aggressive. I think it's perfectly fine to push back and tell me what about that felt aggressive to you? I think there's just so much power and

holding people accountable for their people accountable for their crap right about here. This morning is just be a bunch of who you are. You are you comfortable in your skills and abilities and reframing conversation by using different languages really important, but that's not taking away from what you're trying to do or who you are. Let's talk about the soul is it is quite fascinating because there's no Revenue if there is no Revenue did it snow in.

Yeah, I can talk about that. So over my you know from the beginning of 48 North until I left, you know, I'd raised 70 million dollars, which I never ever thought in my wildest dreams that I was part of that is just an industry where it is that what time so, you know, they say you make your own luck, but it is just the nature of the bankers if they can make money, they'll find a way to get you money, but it's definitely a difficult Road for women because there are so few female bankers and it is truly truly. It's not just the

cliche. There is the voice clip there golfing their friends get is there is you have to find your way there and I do worry about this new covid-19 meeting by Zhu because for me it was going to the conferences going like make being able to make those relationships. I didn't come into it with the relationship and not What I do worry about 4 women coming up right now is how do they develop those relationships with bankers? And with the people who really hold the purse strings for the money and I think that that's

networking for women is something women are very good at and it's critical for raising money that you have a network and you know something you got to figure out how to do in this new era. Navigate me to an incredible team is really helpful to cuz like hum Allison. My weakness is Matt Damon having an incredible CFO and just a strong team around you a strong leadership team senior management team is really important very important if you believe So why might never be very limited having diversity gender the first of the

ethnic diversity as we're building a team when you partner with people who are going to help you raise the capital. They talked a lot about experience experience experience on my comment back as well. How are we going to have those people have experienced if they're not given the opportunity and I am a very big barrier in terms of being able to bring women into rules in the c-suite and what you're faced with is people like what they have. No experience. But how are we ever going to get a

man? That's okay because if they're the ones with experience and a wife Is 200 million dollars you learn from them and if they're the ones that around and then you pass that off to when they're around you and it just keeps blowing that way but he's got to start somewhere and that's how you get your experience to find women that are more senior than you and have that experience. That's fantastic. A lot of us have had that around us and we kind of a Trailblazer so yet again, it's all about collaboration and works at the people around here getting

experience. I'm so sorry with the fact that look at your advisory team. So I think that there's a couple things and I want I buy fully appreciate and and also have witnessed and experienced exactly what both of these ladies are talking about. Capital markets aren't fun. I think what may happen though. I know what they're looking for is it's a means to an end now and if we can start changing that dialogue square one, we have were telling our stories in a captivating way, right? We think about the problems that you like coming back for thinking about the problems that Humanity has are we solving

for this? Is there a clear path to revenue are we looking at, you know, are you able to Pivot and and look at like other past of Revenue and not I'm looking at it as a runaway so so that we can see that you're deploying and applying it. And I think that that was the biggest lesson from what happened before is you know, a lot of women and this is a reason I love women is we're responsible. We're not going to go out and buy a fancy and like an end and put, you know, other questionable things, you know through our expenses,

you know, it it's we have a a devotion you go back to like microlending. That's the principle of Michael ending is the fact that women understand what responsibility is a different different weight with it. And so I think it's connecting with them getting a good and getting good advisers who can bend. Your network that put you in the right path with people and then again coming through it saying, you know what it's okay, if you don't know math, but I have this exceptional team that's going to be able to drive and get the results that I'm sitting in

front of you telling you that I'm going to get I'm Bridget as you're working with clients at at at Marigold, it would Fascinate to me to see how you know the conversations go around wanting to build a female brands or speak to an audience of of women who holds a lot of spending power. But then looking at a table of all men who aren't really engaged with that experience at all those conversations. Well, I think I think one of the things that you know what we've all been talked to you about it, but you know, it's sort of unique body

empowerment to look at her qualities that they have and build out on those strengths speaking to you know, maybe some Financial challenges or whatever whatever deficit you feel you have. The other thing I've noticed is your deficit probably isn't as bad as you think it is because we're so self-critical, you know, it's it it's looking at yourself and looking at at going back to what you stand for and your strength and then having the confidence when you're dealing with

aboard aboard table full of men to position your Concepts, but you know, you have to be fact-based. You can't be a The opportunities are and you also have to build your capabilities in developing a narrative on on As you move your business forward and some and some men I think lots of women have challenges in terms of building their sort of PR narrative or they're doing a PR campaign for a new initiative within their business a company that they're starting up going Globe something for

themselves. It's really about knowing your audience and knowing what's going to engage them and having a kind of win-win mentality As you move forward. Can you text on an earlier and I'd like the group to check a little bit more about this and you know, it's not a not criticizing. I don't want to take a lot of rest relationship. All of us defense vs wide enough of scotus. I think it's it's really as everyone speaking. I'm thinking really obviously. Trying to think about somebody just starting out or not yet

in that CEO position, right and what all leaders need whether their women are manners people around them that are smart and passionate and in the end. So if you aren't, you know, you're trying to work your way up, especially within cannabis because everything Tibbetts and moved so quickly all the relationships that you can help your leader your direct boss for the CEO with is going to get you around a table. Then you're going to start to learn a language of the public market all of these things and not switch women often need to learn is this language because many of us didn't have friends

who are CEOs of public companies that we don't know but you need to get yourself around Mikey and who would I would let you know if someone wanted to be around the table that could but if they were introducing me to a retail chain that I needed to do business with and they had a friend that work there and it was through them. Horse, I was going to bring them to that meeting and I think that's a network is really your way to be able to go to either your breakfasts or the CEO and say well, I know somebody. XYZ company. I think it'd be great for us to collaborate

with and they're going to appreciate that and you're going to start to get to be in those meetings that will teach you what you need to know to rise the ladder. Yeah, very very good clients and Marcy for for you as well. I mean, you know what? I think everybody is very passionate and has talked about the importance of being smart and engaged what are other qualities that we have that we don't often showcase that you feel to be very successful in senior leadership roles. Yeah sure and I

eat with a cold mean being smart being engaged learning about the business. There is so much value in reading the mdna and reading the info Starks and all these are things that there is so much information out there and there is no excuse for us not to read it or know it especially for trying to engage in the space with a company but thinking about is really we're very empathetic Raymond women tend to be more empathetic the goal for us has to figure out how we get there without being prissy just saw spray when she talked a little bit but I think they're listening

but again, I am with Rosey. I've been called more than than not so when I talk about things like being a listen to what people are saying listen to how they're saying it. I'm not suggesting that we start, you know, giving hugs and kisses best never the world. I'm going to live in but you still asleep. What we're doing right is to listen to how people are talking to each other. Listen to how people want to be talked to watch body language watch when people are shutting down when somebody's talking to them and make sure that you approach them

differently. All these are the things are really where I would focus. Those are those are excellent call. Matt said we've had a we had a question from one of our male participants Matthew who does what can men do to be more respectful and you know, I'd like to broaden the question. What how do we call on men in our lives as well in her professional life step up in a different way because sometimes they're supportive but they do have the same perspective we do they don't see the barriers from the same point to be with us and it's not like they don't want

to be supportive. They just don't know how Marcy will start with you. It's about treating us as people that humans as a chain or let's remove some of these barriers that are being put in front of some of these dates that are putting food in front of us and less apples to apples. And so, you know, we are approaching Us in talking about you were at the board table or talk about those sorts of things. Let's forget about the things that are not important right there. Right? And so don't think we can't do something because we might have children don't think we can't do Things that are

really gender-based really just about treating everybody professionally and then I'll always focus on that people be confident be professional be smart and work hard and he was think about those things rather than the gate to put in front of gender biases. I think this is a good question to sort of get us to the wrap-up point. We said did you want to add to that based on your personal experience to what is it that men could have done differently had they known what would have been helpful to you? Don't underestimate me. Yes.

Thank you. That is it. Like I don't know how else to say it but that don't don't underestimate. My intelligence don't underestimate. My fire don't underestimate my will and desire and drive to learn and eat everything that I possibly can because of the fact that every woman is different and every woman is unique and beautiful and special in her own way and the fight to win is not exclusive to Matt and I think that that's something that they forget I think also there sometime we have sometimes we just have a better way and I

think if they slow down just for a second don't be don't be dismissive. I think that's from me is my my biggest trigger when somebody just passed as my opinion off. When things start to know it's not a firework is is what that is. That's not a firework. That's that's my anger kind of trying to trying to find a good place and so Yeah, I think it's just two ears one mouth. I've heard that before and it's just like yeah hiding themselves on the back. And if you don't pat yourself on your

back, they sometimes won't acknowledge it. So, you know, I'll give out good ideas and then and then suddenly they you know a day later we should do this this this without acknowledging that actually you're the one who said that and I'll take it on as their own and I have no problem saying actually I'm glad you picked up on that that I brought up yesterday. So and then we talked about it, but if you don't stand up for yourself and again, it's not don't everyone has imposter syndrome II like guarantee probably everyone in this panel has had it. I wish I could see a show of hands of everybody in

the audience who has it. But just, you know Works through that and no and living your strengths in your power your knowledge or experience and if you don't have the answer it's okay to say, I don't know. Let me find out for you. You'll get along. Retraction that way whether it's when you're raising Capital whether you're looking at a new deal, it's okay. They'd rather hear that than giving them a bulshit story. Richard's you have anything to add to that on how you men could support us differently? I think that men need to be open to negotiation and not be panicked by it.

I find that you know, when you're when you're when you're going for a problem solving when you're dealing with a challenge, whatever it is men in my in my experience of men and women off and go to the shorthand, but you have to negotiate for yourself. And yes, they have to negotiate for your business and what you're moving forward and if you don't ask and put yourself forward and even over ask, you know, kind of you know over over anticipate and and really make both go strong on your deals men have to be open to negotiate with women. And sometimes I see that

they're more because of that boys club because of the the culture that they have they have a short hand are negotiations. And I think that they could be more interested and open and listening to negotiating with women. An analysis of how about how about you? Is there a specific thing? What I found is the Co-operative. I'd like to hear everybody thought not everybody but my Senior Management definitely getting opinions. It's a new industry things are changing all the time. You don't

have a direct way always to the end. But what was difficult is that in my experience? If you did not agree with some of your mail Senior Management, they just argue and argue and argue and it puts you in a position where you have to say. Listen. I'm now saying I'll see you this is what we're doing and it's just I don't think that happens. I know it doesn't cuz I speak to my male colleagues and I think men need some sort of trick themselves to that moment. It is a job. There is a higher key if I'm your boss and I heard what you said and I say no we're going this way and

don't argue like Maybe a little but it doesn't itch go on and on or circumvent me and trying to do things. So I think men need to check themselves really because they're not doing it from a bad place. So they don't have the awareness that they're even doing it because they love women are feminists, but they they need to sort of go inwards. Someone said it very well cause think about why they're reacting the way they react would they react this way? It was a mailbox and pulled back. Thank everybody for the conversation

that's happened. Especially in the library to spot a collaborative effort and just a feeling of being part of a community really really important and the messages about continuing to be strong and passionate and chicken in a really resonated for me. And for me one of the best things. I sometimes use the fact that people are really nice. I'm not and there's nothing wrong when I'm not I'm definitely not. Thank you and merry gold. I hope all of the Kinder can you still help us and Asian the way

they have? Thanks. Everyone. Thanks for having us.

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