HK Blockchain Week 2020 - Panel: DeFi Day: Major Use Cases of DeFi

Hello. Hello, everyone. This is all very shaky and I'm happy to welcome you here today on our very special deep V State. And we start our day, with our first panel, just dedicated to the C5, you cases, and the overview of what if I had brought us in 2020. So the space has been has been the biggest bull run in 2020 in total value. No locksmith and decentralized network is very, very close to fourteen billion US dollars in the awesome. So is also keep my users increased by 40% during the last month of October,

despite managing our losses for the month and with a round of introductions. And I'll just quickly introduce each of our speakers and then we'll dive deeper into everyone's perspective, all of the five. So we have on board today, Stephen debates, president of elevated returns. Hi Stephanie, thank you for joining us. Devin is behind the famous security offering for the act of going. By the way, that's why I know that you've been referred to as the Steve Jobs of token. How come Well, I don't know.

That was smart, Daisy is a one of the legendary shots that are on Wall. Street is a big fan of what we doing. I'm not sure if he's right but I'll take the compliment any dates. So we've been pioneering insecurities. How can I take security token that Chris awesome to to pledge as is physically, income-generating token into a D5 world because he's, you know, that there was always an underlying value. And I think that people shoot shoot high pitch, the volatility that you have

into all the others by putting the sum of some of those intrinsic value, talkin to the airport for you. And really do some years farming based on real asset. Really love to hear about that so that we have sent out regarding CEO of Alchemists, hisun count. Are you here? You're amused yourself another. In blockchain fintech been here, been here for a few years now, having built and sold a few blockchain and fintech companies and and building Fillmore. Okay, we're thrilled to hear about your investment advice or not investment advice. OK Google

and I'll play. Welcome. Thank you for joining us. Thank you very much except that your being here, just introducing myself. I've been the tech entrepreneur for 30 years, mostly in gaming and also, early internet day. So what's happening with blockchain? Animal Care Brands is amazing and focused on reaching boxing gaming really focusing on Hunter Court Oakland. I have some most well-known projects the sandbox listed on finest and most recently one of our portfolio company with your ex Infiniti

actually just listed on binance and update with me as well. We also have multiple gaming token for Formula 1 and actually $25 Investments all in the gaming. And if you stay still, we're big Believers in the space. And I'm very much keen on learning more about this application. Okay, thank you. I will be CEO of Blues. They'll welcome. Thank you Olga. So, I'm headed out to I came from the video game media, entertainment space, and then transition to have

planets background. Somebody to send, texts, and block jenica feel about 5 years ago. And Blue Bell, our role in the boxing clip of space is where the data layer of it. So, when the infrastructure play allowing for better storage for greater security privacy, which will talk later and how we believe that leads into proper format, for defy Calvin, and general partner of Pluto's VC doing this from Hong Kong, welcome Calvin. Hangs to the Bitcoin price today. We

already hold holding and a u m of above 450 million. Wow. And I think we will talk about investing in 55 projects to you later. Thank you. And last but not least and tan won The Voice CEO of all the l u. K. Welcome on dog or somewhere again in the middle of not on the Beatles lyric but basically on the east side. So we are building that defy friendly meal Bank. Okay. Neil banking is another Hot Topic, these days. Okay, thanks a lot everyone for coming together. I know everyone are in a different parts of the

world coming together from different time zones. Do really appreciate you being here. Okay, let's start. I have a, let's go to personal question to each one of you and I would like to start with Stephen. How you been engaged in the T5 space, and which use cases have isolated you the most in 2020? So we just looking at getting engage, we see a therapist, additional investment bankers. So we we take great project, then we sell them, we package them. And we seldom into a digital security is 4 month,

but the minute we actually put arrest and corn on trading in t 0, we receive. So many phone call from very very small, Skeeter Define gauged defy because they did convince us that, you know, people would want to use true Securities, his specialty, real estate, link, Security office to pick Fede. I yelled generating and in use them as collateral to do all kind of hygiene training and Landing. So we are actually in in Tokyo is a few of those very smart people to see how we can. We can redo your pushing to that to that new segment

and then separately. As you know the fight two days is 90. Find the sanitary of Base, but we become tezos and this has just launched recently Dexter, which is their own decentralized platform. They've been creating rough around the main message. So as we are True Believer, that it's, that tells us he's the perfect blockchain for security token and they are moving into the states of the centralized exchanges. Well, we love you. See, you involved with this project. Interesting. So it's time to, you know,

diversify the protocols and and do it serum domination here. And by the way. By any chance, if it is going to send it all to us. Now that's why we can do a swap to give me your best your best the most promising and that's all of you owns especially Calvin since he's so. So up on the Year honey. They um yeah but you said we can we can set them the package for the betta, fish live raging and go to 20 x. Now believes great, everybody should own. Some has been killing joke apart because

when you go and stay on top of it, to you being treated like a king, you have cash rebate on your stay. We have some of the coolest Brian giving like perks. Like you have no idea. We going to make some announcements this week about it that you put Trudy joke upon. It is something that protects you from the inside because you have True Value associated with a toga and I seen that the danger on some of the defy friend that I see, is that people that Building height on high and as long as the trend is your friend, you looking very good. But I've been in Capital

Market for 20 years and I know that every brother or every Tran eventually reverse and then you need to be ready to run for the exit. So so do I have true asset as collateral for these decentralized Finance? I think I'll buy some aspirin tomorrow. Thank you, Calvin. An answer investment in my question here in the next question, is to Calvin and to sign Kelso from an investment perspective. What is your criteria when choosing, if these five projects to work with

and to invest in, once to start, I just want to take a step back in and give a bit of historical perspective to the whole digital asset. And why I choose certain defy over there is is if I go back 5 years, 40 years, that the coins that have done well have been with the with certain use cases and and only use case that has really stood out as is the exchange business and enter certain extent. The Lending business over the last couple of years. Other coins are some, some, some done very well and trying and, and, and now, if I look at the defy

space with that Trend in mind with that aspect in mine, I feel that it is. It is it is the next phase of fundraising. We're by the d v coins. At the major defy coins, will will ultimately stand standard the truth of time. And by that, I mean the the snx is, the always the Wi-Fi's of the world. Yes, there are opportunities always for 2nd gear, start Tod Five Points while, but unfortunately for for investors like us, I'll be in all day Traders. And honestly cannot attract so many things. Everything going on. So sticking with the with the top names

because even when the rotation happens, and if you've seen the last month, two months rotation happening, the DVDs coins come back again and they stick out like Bitcoin and ether stored in the first, first era and, and the exchange coins that the big exchange coins filled in the secondary. And I think the Big D V coins will stand out in in this area. So that's that's my very simple criteria rather than going into the technicalities and then. Calvin, you have anything to add. So what you're saying is

basically every one of the investors is looking at almost the same thing apart from looking at the team and also looking at what you're doing, do they have the background to do such a business and show off? But what I'm going to say to you is a secret of the two different types of investors that is in investing into our blockchain and toothpaste. The first time, I only looked at the tokenomics price. So basically you have these bunch of investors who invest into your poker. Basically, we only look at how we are going to sell it back into the market at

a higher price. So, the first, the first group of this investors, we are not interested in what background you come from, what is your business that you going to do whether you have future or not? Even your business is scalable. Do they all we look at is are you going to push your car? That's all the first batch of investors wants to know. We'll be looking at. The founders, the business model. Okay. And also, how can you beat this into a sustainable business? And usually the second part of this investors,

not just one token. They would also one shares in your company. this is, The second part of the investors lending company out like that that's so many savings companies. I was like that. Every one of them is promising you between 5 per cent per annum to 35% per annum. So who are you going to invest in? So I can interpret that. You only have this two groups of investors to Target the first group of investor you tailor your whole entire to put on next to them because they're only interested in whether or not your price will go up

and the second investors are the one that go with you for the Long Haul. They want to see that your company and become the next issue. But unfortunately I think outside in the whole Market 70% or more other one investors without then switch out your whole entire company. You need a good mix between the two. Which type are you Calvin? Yeah but we look at every project differently some projects to look at it. This one this project that would make some money from

it. We invest some of it will look at whether or not you become the next. Yes, you right. Which can last forever. Am I right yet? Absolutely. Sometimes it go. Okay. Thank you. You want to look at is side from Founders. In the business is an is what I've realize it was past 6 months is just a narrative behind any of these, like the ones that the stronger DIY projects that have actually snx. I knew guys who were in it from like March 2019 and and they're coming. I

get into it then and they stuck through it when these things are nothing and help build those communities in those one that actually did it. I tapped into communities and built it just like organically built it up and then you know the bill be programmed by Calvin touched on their hyping it up there supporting it all the way through but that's I think that is the biggest Difference Maker between the one that break out on the ones that don't Are you got everybody's offering great platform? I mean, great percentages of this and that, but I found the ones that have this like the best organic

narrative story and Community behind it are the ones that are powering through and some of them are just like, so hard to keep up with that myself. I i c a m l p and a couple of times that these guys are, you know, you don't date a younger, are there at the University of few years 5, 6 years, but they're just on top of the meme culture and everything way better than I am. And I'm like, hey you know what, you guys are up all night watching you things and seeing what strength and they are long-term holders, I'm like I'd rather invest through them. Then myself try to figure

this out all the time I'm sorry, sorry that I got it. I think, I think I'm totally with that big bobble on that. And that's, that's the third narrative, which is actually becoming very, very popular. At least Anaysha. If, if not globally, the younger fans, the younger guys who are on top of this all day. Day in day out, and end. The stuff that they are getting access to and the stuff they're posting the VC's. Are they Masters themselves are building such communities that you as a project do not want to be a part of

them versus versus just the money today because these people marketing, everybody can do. Everybody can do money, everybody can throw communities that. These guys have been just stunt I think naturally goes through yet. Yes, please step into the assets of the products themselves rather than Miss Sara Lee in the token life. And I think we see this with gaming and Block Chain in his teeth were actually, people are investing in the non-fungible Toca weatherton. A pre-sale on a system cells and actually that way they become edit an indirect investor of stakeholder in the project, like we seen

this was sandbox ever seen this with x infinity was 500 out the time and end until 1. Because now you have other elements outside of the assets, even cryptokitties first, created the movement of people started to develop on into investing and to build He's from has come now where you have to unlock wheel at a basic cleaning or medical in with metaphors? These are a new kind of investor who don't want your tokens. They want your assets in the locality non-fungible token structure. Looking like your city planning for your game and make an

investment on that basis. And maybe take a large chunk of black, and the demand is also a large. So, so you need me to sandbox. You know, we, we we sell out within 18 to 20 minutes at the supply. We have the moment ask Infiniti, recently listed and bottoms did really well. I think one difference about NFC investors is because historically and if these have not had high liquidity, so if you're going to invest in and if these you're in it for the long haul, just because you asked if I'd like a collector a by because I'm not expecting that. I can sell it tomorrow. I use it or I have a reason

to own it. So really the space of a Nifty holders is small compared to the crypto guys. Just don't listen to him without people. Every person who buys it tends not to flip. They tend to be more long-term, which gives a different social Dynamic to it. And I think, you know, they are the fourth kind of what kind of the best If I Stay still need to quickly sort of going to that question. This is interesting as we think that blockchain is amazing because of global liquidity Bank. Whether it's through this wall for financial, this kind of providers. And now

you have a banking system, that's what all the financial services service. And the problem is, there's not that much to service at the moment because most of them are tokens that have yet to have a utility. So the natural thing is, if it comes speculative and that was the beginning of, you know, I see. Oh so you 17 2018 at the reason why you had this speculative nature to Colin's Point first play, the first type of investor And then now, however you need a service and most normal normal, unlock change users have no reason to use crypto.

PayPal works, well, any bad reports about. Why do I need to do in order to match many projects? Are the tie the real world with this little virtual trip to world. But you need pricing oracle's which means you have a weakness in the system, but I think they have become in our view, the asset class that needs this kind of defy. So you have already phones of entity known. As I have already started Tennessee, fractionalization. We have a rental product. You know, people that make tens of thousands of dollars either selling trading or lending and if keys today and yes, it's a

small space. But we think that is a community that will power long-term utility in the crypto space. I'm not just because a lot of Gamers out there, but actually it delivers something that games don't have to do. Financial Services essentially creating a bank for gamers, which we think this is going to be potentially game-changing. Wow. Thank you. Bye. Bill. Do we have anything to add from a decentralized at our perspective? I mean for us what we see is catching on Calvin and what Seinfeld the best use queso block any crypto are still the first

use case, it's money is green. It's still speculation. All those things, but Adams products are getting mature. What we're finding out is that the infrastructure and it's catching on what you got to do? Because two is a prescription that has to catch up and everything comes in waves so we see that, okay? So if I taken off, you're going to have your having hacks, you having privacy issues, all these things have come up that infrastructure got to get stronger so you got, you know the Oracle Oracle, you got a couple other one. Moved out there to tell because we're decent priced database.

We've actually built The Descent by Oracle that we're launching and the benefit of that. Is that right now compared to other store gold prices to be stored in a safe manner, which I mean not to get too technical with the bass and the oldest to you have better security in these products that are privacy and better. So, I think the, the infrastructure now is going to catch up and does Meg, d v intro. Interesting. Correlation between, you know, spine is products and financial tools, and

that application of defy because despise about growth and the massive social media frenzy tiny Community, right? And it's not what you or not. But there is an opinion that if I should connect with traditional financial instruments, maybe look more and more like fintech and it will give a massive boost to the whole loan Market. But there is still a final notice. No infrastructure to use real-world assets and as collateral and he's like our calls. So are you and you agree or not and what is a solution here? And I'd like to throw it to on someone and then to everyone else.

I think so. I think I think it also gives us a bit of a cell. Like what I agree I'm going to partially disagree with you. You know what one mentioning is like is like what what kind of value and if you look into your, what's 855 brings is a simple actions or how long will it take your average bank to approve you for the loan and what's the? And we're just getting started with from slow to delegated long and It doesn't need to understand how the delegated loan Works. What do you understand? Is what are my rights? What are the terms and conditions? And how you can know how he did it? And

singles for knowledge is every single day. And then another one musically when you can offer is simple account which has a 10% annual interest on on your like, when you were basically dollars or Pounds or whatever it is, it is Everybody else were even in the NFC line and the people that and then just keep going and going and then fly on to me than natural process of evolution. And how do you make a service? That is convenient, right on. It's understandable by customer switch. Use

Use your access to your money, right? Is just like, it makes it easier for you to use it, but there's nothing fancy about it. So what if you, what if we upgrade that thing, right? So what if it's exactly the same thing that you understand, it just that simple remedies which is still expensive. That's an interesting point anyone wants to add to that. So I see if I may. So first of all, I agree. I think the one thing I would, I would point out those at 4, as we see who crypto definitely bringing in traditional Gamers is one way in which you can go to the spacers because the appoint

people don't need to understand what is crypto, just like a Fantasy VI P, but they already understand. You know, what's a virtual virtual currency because they already spend on that. So the adoption path would seem to be the easiest way we think compared to listen to regular users or you have too busy jump, a few more hooks for the understanding, what I find. Fascinating with the crypto do is that because of the bank came first, all the service has been centered around. Very financial terms, which will most normal user is difficult. When you talk about 60%, APR frankly,

I will say he does worry me. I think short-term, it's okay, as a user acquisition. Inflationary. And at some point you know it's got to come from somewhere and I think this is why utilities important know why did why did Mannix first come out? They didn't come first in the in the world. They came because someone needed a service by then we were training cattle before from one place to another and it was an impractical to be shipping. Basically cattle from one place to another. Is that cattle Anthony on capitalism because that's what we're doing. So

many people to verify debit and credit and it's amazing that that system. We still use that today in accounting is very simple way to measure, you know, basically has amazing cuz it's not just double entries. The Lending. What does that was to send title to sell product to have a real estate? Cuz we had property rights. And I think with wisdom teeth by space at the bank came first, so much money this but speculate as to Calvin's really appoint as well. So I feel that the products currently

inadvertently end up gearing towards the speculative crowd because they currently inhabit life. If you build the Wall Street then you get Wall Street, like products, but they are still in the global scheme of things, a minority. So the whole lives. But we have to bring it, but I believe we're in the early adopters stage or maybe even before in encrypted. So, you know, but I think to accelerate that path, we need to put utility sink virtual utility is more powerful than physical utility, because it needed for a physical world. I agree with you opening a bank

account today. Do people still put up with it? It's it's, it's, it's a seems to work fine, but I have nothing. So I feel like, you know, big fuel this faster because it's a service that they don't happen, they can really benefit from I would go with more with what Antonia's saying is that? I think it's a lot simpler. If it's custody problem, it's what the people want like, right now. That's okay. They want experience. I've had more people. Contact me in the last couple weeks to buy Bitcoins cuz now what we're

saying, six months ago, just turned at the actually happening cuz they're realizing is going to be absolute pain coming and it's the best performing at that. Then the question is, how do I get it? That's when the big pain. So once we can solve that doesn't have to work with any platform for 10% savings. Doing a lot of people than the second question is, how do I get in there while they don't want to take custody and deal with all the technical stuff that we find cool? They don't want to do. So as soon as

Banks wake up and see that we have to serve what I like I said, yeah, it is, we discover this customer base and I'll be like, fine will take custody of your crypto. Hold it for you guys. And will Farm out the yield to somebody else at the 5 to 10 % place that's safe. And that's what's going to bring all of the users in. This is really a custom. It's a Gateway problem Phyllis Impala, I agree. I think the thing that I worry about is where is the capital that is in custody being used. So you must be productive and that's the bridge

to which I have the question, which is a question of whether this is a scam coin or other things. This great ways to use it, right? But when does tokens giving 60% APR as a way to give it to me because I can give you the best deal. Then, you know, there is a moment when you get out, and who times it was my point, is that because the speculative currency of the Year Awards, Morning. And I feel like if we can give it more utility, which I think it means then the per capital becomes productive in the lungs in the spindle way, whether this is you know,

10%. So that's that's that was really my main point that because if you're worried fintech platform, that's it. Let me add new Services. Device are not going to go to the seals are from a real estate token and utility tub in like an entity. We know that I had to get 68%. So cuz that's what you need to get you there, then you don't need to give him. 60%, you just need to give me what Anton touchdown like 8 to 10 and they'll be happy to go there. I also agree with the perspective

of why people go into crypto, a lot of them have in the past, the game of the moment, something like that, people play a game, they don't know an app that is when we think the gamer will go, you open up a bank account because you have money to deposit. You don't open the bank account before you do that and that's the only thing. The same is true for just internet foot but I think there's all these corn. To happen to the crypto work for sure. So when you talk about 60% APR and all this, I went

in myself, I got 45% and you really need to look into the business. No, mix of how to get this for you. No have time comes, of course, 60% will go down back. Maybe to five or six percent. But even at 5% it is more than any bags that can offer you but you really need to look into how they do this business. It up two points. Again, one, if you have me meet in love company in India savings and lending and I spaced, you will find that as an investor WVU. To ask where that's where they

collect. All this money. Where does all this money goes to? You will find that more than sixty or seventy percent to test of the money are going to the same people. The same company at one to promote other people, but why we're talking to? You was cases. I mean, you didn't say, no. We're talking about real life. Okay, I'm going into like solid returns project now, of course, everyone is worried. Come on bags. That Keisha's BC I'm not able to give you even 4% how can the deep-space give you 12%, you know, three times of five times of

Banking and Trust. So you have to look at the detail. The APR is only for 5 days. you know, every 5 days to adjust the baby and you going to go back in and just depends on how the market movement is like, that's why sometimes when I meet people, if you do not know how the business Mechanics Work, you do not know how these people make money and how did people actually make money for us? This is a very, very keyboard. So Defy is the most beautiful thing. That happens

if you ask me to the crypto space. Is going to happen for the spoken with Stephanie's doing. I think we need to go back to, to what you say. You said this to type of investor rights, they cannot eat and then business-driven and when you catch return. Oh, yeah, this two components to year. One is capital appreciation, which is speculation on price. The other one is economic return, based on the use of the asset. Now, I can tell you in the real estate world, when you buy an asset, you have a whole that he's

going to yell to 45%, right? So if you're going to take a full to 5% year into a 10% year product, you have two ways to do, that one is to drive the underlying price, which is what's happening in the defy works, right? You'll have a Buddha market so you have met for capital appreciation and the other one is leverage on Leverett, know the problem live, right from Leverage is when people run for the exit, you going to realize that whoever is the last one holding the puppy is not going to work Friday. If you look at capterra PlayStation, you need to run a

modeling analysis. What happened to your year is tomorrow Bitcoin drops by 30%? And if you feel that the team offering the public can still deliver 34, 40% in that case, then you should go all-in. But I tell you in my humble opinion 85% of the product out there are built on the bull cycle and they're not going to deliver any year into a into a cycle now. Because we are super early in the game. It's probably okay because we know this more money coming in. So more money coming in.

Higher Pride. What? I challenge everyone to do with. What are the inflection point? Are you going to go straight from 14? Billion locked to 50? Then you should go to 8:30. 1550 is going to be a tolerance physics with Price Road then do what kind of injuries say? And, and you have to do your homework. That is, is this 14-day infection or 50 or where is the inflection? What Kevin and you are saying from a perspective that, that is a date, is a toddler to do this discussion, and that is nothing of this is possible without Smart money, which

institution ale money coming in. If Bitcoin does not go up, the 5 will not go out. There is no bull cycle, it is not bullish and and when Bitcoin goes down, 30% 20% is, is anybody's guess and Wendy. If I go as follows that is anybody's guess, but definitely cycle. So I agree with you. We are enjoying all this when it comes back. Most of us definitely will be left hanging with nothing but but the doubt smart money coming in the last two years. Smart money did not come in because most of them burn their hands. In in 2017-18, with the Advent of

smart money, coming back and we are seeing all this and this it if somebody was to Gorge how long this can sustain in my opinion watch that watch watch. Why is a smart money coming in and how long is going to stay and answer to that? The macro answer is stimulus. With that. Money has to go somewhere. Stocks cannot continue. Wiley going up that when he has to move into gold, has to move into Bitcoin once because down to bitcoin. Obviously.. The first layer of

investors that Kevin was talking about, they, they want in Western 20% and then it trickles down to defy stops, everything stops, and that starts with you. You are, you are looking for the chair. I think, I think we, we are Jerry over focus on the the short-term Investments with what we forget. Here it is the technology part. I mean, look on the finance actually has never been so easy to to build on and integrate, you know, it's you know right now. So when you know, when building our on your thoughts for the we build everything else else we actually really taped and everything

is going goes down on you know the price of a Down. And I both entrance going further. So you know what? Everybody expects. Yeah. So I'm just going back to use cases. I think I'm driving like I'm coming right now. Why would you buy something that's worth $10 is just fix the screen. Why does defy lives in it. Like, she's only like everything else. And this point, why what does it do? Like, literally. And that's that's why I'm going back to you. You don't know what you write on. Maybe

but you know what was one of the big movement around that was able to save your favorite beanie babies and sending it to mail order was one of the first thing triggers for people there. So he's of the triggers. I think I found that trigger was the finest world. Natural world for the next week to come, I don't know. But I think it's all about finding more of those really powerful application and bring that an option for create more of the stable stable. And

I think the one thing that I'm really excited about blockchain is that I had, you know, where the smartest people hanging out. And and actually I think they're coming out in boxing and his wife. And they're crazy ideas Revolution, and its mark on, you will help feeling it but it's a smart on purpose. What are we go to the next question. Otherwise, we have already been in touch during the latest conversation, so I think I'll touch that you smart or anything and institutionalization, right? What I also wanted to talk about is

a security because last last month B2B TV services for hacks and nothing is safe here, right? And everything everyone has to take care of yourself. So, since there's no regulation, since you can put a smart contract in jails, who was smart contract, what is the level of consumer protection? What is the security Challenge? And how do we overcome it for these use cases that are already out there? It's time, and I think I think security at least if there's a half or you can do something to solve that and over. The bigger problem is The

project that launched without but not with Anonymous leaders or just take the money, that's a bigger concern that I mean it goes to what Calvin was saying that you have. So it where is just an industry and what you have to do we are an industry that's driven by greed and speculation and no matter how smart Pilar and how well, they're into, it will still dive in without really looking into it. So, security, technology or regulation, that's going to help one guy

just say. I want you to project everybody say, yeah, I think I'll wear all those two money. We don't know who this guy is and he said, yeah, forget it. I'll just keep the money so Elearn. So go ahead. Go ahead, Heights, right? And it was 1 billion dollars worth of basically console, and more money has ever lost. Basically using the central bank has never really, you know, the ultimate security So, why does it happen as you pointed out? So I'm so I think I think it would. It also comes to the space where I think. Maybe maybe we can discuss here. Should we bring more regulation into the space right? And

then should let silicon on Skylanders, you don't even exist or not and yes, indeed the only from the rug pulling, right? There's like only 48 hours from American Satan a billion dollars or not. How do you see Harvest? How do you see Harvest? How do I receive from Wi-Fi? How do you see the business model and you also in the same space and so on. Something that covers or how much is Steph Curry, not on your radar or something along those lines. So, the way, the way they make money, right? It's basically all on

board right now has, as we all guys, right to wear start getting in the next cycle, which just drives that demand. So, how how sustainable that demand is? I don't know, but in the end of their business model is very straightforward and what's interesting is that Look like on a daily basis, but literally like, every single one wouldn't wouldn't Buzz. My mind is that it is indeed an anonymous project and that the question comes in places that if something goes wrong is the retail

people that will get burnt or retail. People think there's a way to recover that, you know, there's no federal reserve, right? There's no consumer protection scheme. So it is basically like use it at your own risk. Agreed and the potential to write. When you see something all I can make a lot of money. People tend to lose that energy. Exactly very well. Save space in it. And they go, I'm going to do this. I don't invest into a project to buy them, there's Anonymous Founders, I don't know. It's not regulated and

then I mean, come on at least. Surprising thing should be that way there and ran away with my money like that at this early stage of the game, if it is speculative, speculative risk, that people are taking by myself, maybe Calvin wouldn't. And we're talking about like I wouldn't do a project that Anonymous. I wouldn't put money into it and that's me if there's other people who would so let them be themselves out. Well, that's again, be a symmetry of information. I mean, you are well experienced and you are well aware of the potential risks and it's just a

human being. The majority would most likely decide to and there's a visitor for it, right? Like fades in and it's not for nothing, right, because that's where. I mean if you do a loan, I mean, again, it's like absolute someone $10,000 and not allowed to play in this field. Unturned. But then again, there are centralized networks, right? And you can build your company on top of a centralized luxury network via sign is a great example, right? And you can still use test protocol for that. So what's the point of having that wrist

and regulations comes in? But if you built on the decentralized network, you can just Yeah. And that's the wild west, you know, eventually like remember the early 90s on the stock market in Asia, people would call and buy any stock because the next day they would go live it up. And guess what? The regulator comes in and say we need to stop at any becomes a boring market so people move and I chasing something, something you. So the institutional money is

going to go into the boring product and then the Cowboys and Indians going to go and wait until you have regulations on security. I would say one thing, right? If you use know, if you use Bearer instrument as collateral for defy, You always going to have a problem, but it's like what we've already explained acid back to work and sit on the couch table, you can have the same component of capital, appreciation, and years, and have the security because you somebody hacked my corn,

I can go back into the table of the decapitator and I can move the shed back to who it belongs to. So I think that we going to move my grade from Bearer instrument turn on parents room and maybe regulation will come, but if we look at this as a technological breakthrough, you can actually have the file in a very secure environment, you just need to change the the the nature of the collateral. That's it. What's a good voice and I'm sorry. We have literally several Madness left since we have six panelists. I'm going to give you one

minute to make your last point so and I'm even starting the timer who wants to be first. What's the temperature supposed to go home, but if the height going to understand your risk, makes your speaker at teeth behavior and you agreed together with your long-term view devices are to stay the top. Three players will be the winner and make sure that you understand what a turn on the sunny days. And what happened on the rainy days that DFA is here to stay and investing it. Set up the top three players, you'll be fine, who are the top three players

are the money goes right now and where the money is gone, over the last three months and you know who they are. Okay, thank you. Okay, thanks for the next. I'm just going to say ditto and and and that's what I said earlier as well. I think, I think it's a, it's a money game at the end of the day and on top coins with state of coins, even after the great rotation. And so, so keep an eye on the top, three for five coins, and, and you, you'll be, you'll be fine. You'll be fine. Yes, you might mr. Hundred percent yield but but 20%, 1 kg

Okay, interesting. Defy vs. Acid. I cancel on you are you have to have a mixed portfolio of both that's why is my fan we also invested into real estate back companies and so are so real estate companies provide you with a percentage of returns or sd5 give you the app so you have to have a good balance to make the most money and that is why my fan with just we just passed 65 million. And today we have more than four hundred million in AUM. Right. Investment.

Okay, you got 15 more seconds but then again, I'm gone. I'll be very quick, just keep building it. I believe in Nephi, I believe in the people behind this face and this so many Fantastic Builders. So, yep, just keep building it. Looks like a building construction site is not a wild west by Fink. What do you buy as if we wanted it to breakout use case. It's when people say that always and replace traditional, let's not even get into the conversation Tuesday, use are not certain, people are just going to stay away from it and they like the way they're going people like all of us here

and you my kids. Now that, you know, that use revolut as our checking account cuz that's a bad to pay in place of their savings into 13 is Bitcoin. So, what if you could parallel Financial system, that might never even use the traditional one. So, that's how we got to look at it. Not one replacing other, as the war, is it, a separate passing bell peppers? Yes, thank you. Okay, big coins, does birthday birthday presents for kids? Yes, sir, Leicester is thank you

again. We seem to sort of identification is it were a virtual assets inside games, the rate of teas in box came to me as an added big opportunity and that is educating the world. In particular, the young people who play these games but I never understood why we have to learn about Finance. By the time we take out a credit card in college, in our debt. This is a problem in years old. By the time we're adults, we will be sophisticated and then this issue about the knowledge knowledge is not as big as it is. And what does that really mean to the

world? If you know suddenly we have financial literacy that is actually a bundle of knowledge. Define lock chain connects to voltage more, abundant Thank you. And I have to say that this battle has been one of the most educational and insightful I've ever witnessed. Thank you so much gentlemen. Thank you for coming to talk to you. Thank you for taking part of sorry, and I really appreciate you being here. Let's keep building that, you know, strong device thing and not letting the Wild West Acres

for the wild ride. All right, thank you. Stay tuned for yet another discussion on defy. We're going to talk about echo system in just a few hours from now. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye, everyone. You guys good?