HK Blockchain Week 2020 - Panel: Compliance & Law: Philosophy of Decentralised World

Everyone. Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, good to the morning, wherever you are in the world are guests are from all of the world. So I'm not quite sure how to read. But here we are at the Fantastic panel on compliance. A topic, which is always hot in this space. But seems to be gathering More Steam recently with different government moves towards regulation with decentralized Finance with distributor Thomas organizations. Recent, question of, where is an MC located in which regulations does it need to comply with? There's a lot to cover, but I think

before we start diving into the topic, we're going to do a round of introductions. Just so we can identify all of our esteemed guests and panelists. So like every other conference these days that this is virtual. So I'm going to go clockwise spaced my zoom, which no one else can see, apparently, but I will start with Benjamin name ranks to go number Say I'm Benjamin and I'm business manager at school change. We have been establishing Luxembourg and France since 2016. There's a regulation in Europe in France, a new Suburban boxes or

6 to let you know, what is coaching quickly. We are providing a very competitive procurement Only Solution so I could go players and positions are financial institutions to become compliant and satisfied. I am a tentative requirements worldwide. I always want to know everyone's time zone, so I know how dedicated they are. I think if I think Brian's Mo said get well, soon as I can so I can Benjamin so Michaelson, please. Hi, my name is Michael, son. I am the co-director of the send food and Syntec Research Center.

I do a lot of fun. Acting internationally to the financial system and you're located. Did you think was that I forgot my background of London and my mug that says, A Canada bocce at linklaters the global law firm and also co-head our Global Tech sector and a trans legal working group of the Wall Street. You're busy. Got your hands full Professor by Insane. Dr. Grandison law as well as former lawyer in New York and Sullivan Cromwell an in-house at Credit Suisse and then went into the fintech, the space. So a couple of

rolls on the coach of the right to commit either fintech Association. We just had our world redneck Summit last week as part of the week. And I'm also s, you were going to have a role that Hong Kong you leaving litelab from the founding executive director of the lights and fellow innovation technology entrepreneurship to the fun thing to me is that we all know, right? Really. Lost haven't really been made. So I'm not so funny. I should have that. That's almost a conversation topic, right there. You're you're making a distinction between policy and law and they're not

necessarily the same. So we're signing in to put my list here that the dad of your last name. So would you help? Of course you see in Switzerland and I'm leaving your feet on the banking side for those office, key on the class, trip to the side and it's been fun right now. We are extremely difficult to winter but we are looking for new stuff to happen with you and if you think what you're saying, I work in Switzerland and it seems that Neither recently hopping in Zubin elsewhere. Is that

a false impression over here in Los Angeles at a distance? Well, I guess you were right, when I file reports nobody coming up with it still seems to still alive but they're definitely not what it used to be, better than mixture of two things on the one that companies have progressed, but obviously something is difficult right now because people can't really get out of the Switzerland. And yes, a lot is going on eventually Isley still, you need to meet people as I guess, right now we are seeing a lot of interest very soon. You guys coming to the table. Got it. So

I look forward to escaping from covid, Lockdown and being able to visit end in verify, all that Joshua give us your sort of the US Embassy what if we can just do it on charge and then what kind I've been to more specific questions with your head of a large packages with a large firm policy, Focus. Leon compliance. What what are the trends are seeing are arising as he headed to the end of 2020 and heading to 2021. I think I continue. Okay, by the way, nothing said on this panel is

legal advice, investment advice, or on behalf of any of our clients or employers unless somebody specifically says. So, I'm so I think in terms of trans, I continue to see a number of of projects and teams are merging companies and really large companies. Moving forward with, with projects, were they wish to enter the US rate, many established players that have been no successful outside of the US, trying to find a way in. So I think in terms of trends, at least for me personally I see an increasing number of folks wanting to actually interact with then huh

and or other Regulators or at least think about it. What with my what is my strategy here? So I see a lot of that I'm certainly I guess broader Trends well with the enforcement actions you in the Securities USA. He's lost face. That certainly is informing people, and their, their next move. I'm also, you know, as I'm sure we'll touch on later because some of the proposals, for new laws, including by Benson and lowering the threshold for money, transmission, and other sources

about it. Well, How do I filled out it? Well, you know, I can look at it from many different ways on one hand, I can say, well, you know, there are some countries around the world that have a zero threshold, right? And moving from 3,000 to 0 likes, his proposed, 250 as a personal. So on one hand, I could see it. Well, it could have gone and they are saying that friends are happening like, on the opposite side. I mean, to the extent that we really do, want this to be something,

you mean stream and your tokens for use purposes and not just for investment or speculative purposes. I think it could become quite expensive for various players. And also, I mean, you look at some of the projects including Libra, when it initially was released. And they said they were going to help thank the unbanked and things like that. Well, you know what, if every single transaction that you're using is going to need u, i c a m l Query, whether the people who don't have government IDs, how will they? How will they do that? So, I think there's a lot of things.

I'm, I do blasting wholesale this point cuz I can probably go on for a while. If you look at it. I think it was the digital. Taxonomy asked the proposed. A $600 de minimis threshold or thereabouts for, for transactions, that would not for tax purposes, would be considered. And so I would suggest that maybe those two things could be harmonized you know the 600 or the 2:50 or something like that if it were going to happen. But I think there's their policy reason either way.

turn up to the group and first one to answer to guess the answer in terms of V a male money laundering, direct directive or the new Financial action. Task force, guidance and different version of this. But I'm not a person. You're overly familiar with, what, what do you think is top of mines for in your ecosystem, or for your clients or the people did to work with the first one to answer wins? And if you don't answer, I'm going to pick on you. Dozer, find you when I want to go back to YouTube.

I mean, it was it, there's different opinion and I will not get into that, but I believe so. Yes. And established players. They are you notate. They got their stuff going on. That we will see him with that. I believe it's not a big thing for them. Really, it's big thing for for make the first guys who you know, what you think about, where Bitcoin comes from and write up the Meltdown if you're almost meltdown. I'll see you tonight to system at the time of word, two

people playing right now. I think it's kind of okay, because it can't be dealt with for something. You have kids that we're seeing and turned around right now, it's a challenge but it can be done. So I think the main reason we're seeing right now is people going off the licenses and thinking about where to buy since walked in and how to structure their rule out. Slowly Turn up and then bring one thing, you mentioned that you have a unique to the Hong Kong perspective. And I guess there's new regulatory proposals. There's intermaths is one thing you mentioned and travel rule refer to play into

this area. Can you talk about those shoes to take a few steps back in a hong-kong list? Canada's top three ipas and as the world, right? So a lot of different reasons why it's Regulators are very keen to keep that status. So they're very spot is, of course, an S, you all know what to expect from the place that we see and be people who want to go into the instead of space. So, last year, at fintech week, the sfc, who our local Securities, regulator allowed, for an opt-in Butch, what they called

virtual acet trading? Platform Racine. So, if you wanted to be in that space, you can go into that. Now in the interim, as we all know if Introduce tiia guidelines. And so for those that want to get into the into interspace, Stephen lots of different to comply with the infamous travel roll. I think they've been some really interesting, so one one relates to a misting standards, right? To the same way that you've met. The same standards that were the basis of Swift in the like that. That's a group called intervest, which is led by the Chamber of Commerce,

Global digital finance and idexx up with a singapore-based, i all kind of agreeing to have a great to the stand it, right? So I DM 101, stand it. So that's why I'm messaging. Then there's the other thing that's been introduced as the travel approval and API stand it. So they do basically there. Lots of different ways to try to dress this but at least in my space. The people I deal with are trying to do that but they're trying to get instant money right. So that's that's that aspect the

most recent development in Hong Kong, has been bee rules around in the last week was just announced it. Then I'm going to regulate crypto exchanges. So then passing new regulations. It's a consultation this stage. So the idea now since they have Justin Upton, if you were trading in your digital assets, you needed a license so that they just recent bit of it is now, right? So, depending on what you, I like a good analogy, right? To the old folks have been around for a while that might. Well, hang on and those that are favoring retail, you know, you're all right, and I'll let

you go full-blown, you know, a prospectus land. So so we will be spending the next Exactly exactly. Was it more than what I think that wasn't. Their only issue about being that you knows and then I no longer in Hong Kong right now because they talked about Pirates. So Hong Kong is Keen to kind of legitimize and they will be up cause different people with the computer. Can you give us the Chinese perspective on the compliance, with regulatory wages you seen coming in? Does. I mean

it really looks like the rent, right? It's a kind of banned Bitcoin exchanges to the soda unregulated stuff, right? But I think you're having a front-row seats where at where we are. We're working with a lot of the regulator has. We're working with the local governments into the best and it's our perspective that China's basically cleaning house right now. Cleaning up all the riffraff. They don't like the ico's. They don't like the unregulated stuff and your

people being scammed, right? But that's peanuts does not mean that they're against it. It means that they're just kind of getting rid of the Gilead stock and they're going to put in regulation pretty soon. So I've been on the phone talking about this for quite a number of years. I think sooner rather than later, China is going to regulate cryptoassets or additional access and the regulator version is going to be is really going to drive across the world the same way that the currency you know

I think I think you know what cancer is and then you're up and and and and in Singapore, certainly the first move in regulation as a front-runner economy, when China decides to regulate do acid and they do the China thing which is basically, you know, tell the whole country to move that way, it's going to make I'm going to say that that sooner rather than later. So bad out here with us to the country in the number one country in the world that you have a pee pee pee. And then on top of that, they regulate that's that's a different kind of ball game and I think that's

let me, let me ask you a potentially provocative question. And if I like not to answer, no problem with the aborted, Aunt IPO. Is that have any I'm back on the digital or virtual asset space. Are you asking me when I'm asking Brian? Okay. Yeah, I think the ant Financial portion as you call it, you know, that I wasn't, I wasn't being quite that. I mean, you have to you have to look at it, right? I mean, I think the, the Chinese government actually have some very well using concern, right? You know, there's one house a

highly regulated. We don't need to be regulated, we shouldn't be regulated and an even playing field. Do banks have to have capital reserve ratios and loan to, you know what, you know, all that kind of stuff. Much much with greater constraints then what's going to happen if I was doing that. So I think that wouldn't had to do, you know adjusted and the question is, does it happen before or after IPO? Right? I would argue that if that happened, I feel like you do that would do it if you'd be more of a problem. So I think.

But the answer your question, right? I think that's a different set of issues than the actual digital asset regulation, which hasn't come out really be besides the digital currency versions which she has very soon. As you are kind of commercial release of the currency will happen before the Olympic timeline, for Four Winds, going to happen as I meant to say sooner rather than later. Through your curveball. But with respect to Anthony and his perspective on it, I'll just briefly at what Michael said.

So, my background as an IPO lawyer, I took an early private dinner in Hong Kong, and I help set up credit suisse's joint venture in China to do, Chinese dinner. IPOs not. So I have a couple of things. So one is an understanding this intersection between the role of a of innovation and the whole roll of government and and regulation right to an innovation stage. One thing that people used to say is, wow, how come China grew so quickly on the internet Finance side? It's because of the was not lot of Regulation. That's why, you know, that's why I

could grow so quickly. And that's why I was so Innovative. Some of us are you also that? Well there's kind of a Lacuna. There was not a lot of Regulation it grew apart, but it crashed off to sew a P2P is a great examples of If you grew tremendously in China and then that I think the last time I saw at one point five hundred fifty billion dollars lost right now because it's on Z's cream and some people were embezzled and do executions. They executed people for fault for running those games. So now they're over, arguably had

a lot of Regulation to the peace and end when you have a somebody like and who after the IPO would be the biggest IQ in history coming out and saying, well, if you know, you know, don't regulate us again. I think Michael's point is I think it's the regulator saying, well, you know actually online finance and online lending and we need to regulate that. And so, they did it for various reasons and different people and reboot it before. The IPO for the technical lawyer, you say weld in the material, change in regulations, so you need to protect in the prospectus and a reflecting the pricing

of it, right? So in some ways, it's better to do it before and after The price goes up. You introduce regulation. People lose money. People are not happy. So might as well do it sooner than later. That's fine. We to think about it the other way. It's actually a trend and a reminder to everyone. All to mately did the regulator / government have a say in this matter and they believe strongly enough they can and will step in clearly, two days before I was great. But yeah, been I I want to bring your bored and I want to bring you to the power stations and kind of get the

movie Paris. New Perspective on the waves of compliance, you sing and his extent. It's affecting your business and your customers. Yeah, sure. I quite agree with what you said guys because I see a number of players coming to us. Actually has a quick to monitoring solution because mainy, they want to satisfy this requirement from to obtain the license. Once this number is also increasing for traditional financial institutions. We seen the expression sweet balanced because you know the regulations, is there any sparkly earring for them? So in

France we have the MF and a lot of new Players Bench players coming to us so that I may need crypto trading platforms. While as payment processors are ATMs built. Like I said we supposed to send resorts in Germany with the buffing surveillance of private banks are trying to support it, kind of cryptocurrencies, and they need to be reassured all this new regulation, with Mika and Europe and in different countries in Europe, but also in the year in equations, with something on coming with us this is nice and see something that has been done and I in

Europe and into that I already. So, are the twins is evolving. And I think the change is real nice, and it has to be done before the crypto Market to be more apparent. Maria. Photos of the players in regulation in that if I could trust, you can let people know what they're supposed to do and we're not supposed to win that kind of clarity allows things to move Ford. There's also I think they should do that. If you're only allowed to take action, once a regulation is is in place. It's not like

we can later than most creative people on the planet. Some things may not come to fruition that probably could come to fruition so bent. What's your for you and your client for your business, what it what's your feeling? And what he sing with decentralized finance and then I'll throw this other speakers because they believe there is no Clear Vision to do sometimes I finance. Kia a ruse, let's say for the moment, they can still become quite compliance with the tools. We are providing ourselves. So then, it's putting

sites actually thinking of a way of becoming compliance. So, some of them are coming to us, they say what you can do, it would, it would lose my mind as you're saying, is who's the VA in decentralized finance, in the point of decentralized finance that there's nothing like, how do you get to self compliance and how do you know that represents the device? If it's really decentralized and go ahead, please search up Dick's platforms, for instance, of red flagging. It's because actions all

addresses. And recently has been quite what's the way in index platforms, Constance, moving forwards and say, okay, we can still read for a specific addresses and transactions and try to become even to be more and become more trustful. Symptoms of visibility mechanism itself with the players in the market and bring themselves into Vault of compliance, or your feelings, or the regulation and compliance, and it doesn't even apply to the space. Typing. Absolutely applies to the

space. I guess just having bad slightly sometimes. I think many of us to like, ico's in 2017 and people thinking oh, is something brand-new because this is so new. But I think, you know, one of the challenges at least I won't be but under us. All you do is it a lot of these laws or principles days? And it doesn't matter what new buzzword you give it. It's still, you still need to run the same. Assessments the same, you know, qualitative like what is happening here of Assessments to see. For example, whether you're

selling a security, you still have the house, you don't get away from it, just because some position or another about whether they need to do Key West. We were second with you fight. Is there a common Enterprise? Can it ever be a security? Fair enough. I think also like a horizontally or vertically but also I mean, I think there is no monolithic. Write some things where you say don't see centralized Finance but it looks more like that. Either Delta where is Zachary, Cooper is still, you know,

taking orders. And it's not even on chain for those who were smashing, you had something to think about, but I think there's an interesting tension because then I'll make it quick, but you on one hand, you might take a position about whether you think at least some projects, I'm aware about whether they think they need. You, can we see? And I'll if they've stepped away from the project, they have no public information xcetera Harder issue, right? Like hard to escape from.

How do you do that? And just do some projects geoblock. But we all know that's imperfect but it would. I think it's an interesting tension though is if you look at the Securities laws and the framework that the SEC or saying, you know, part of what we look at is whether there's an active participant. So many of these products are saying there's no active participant, we've like, at least this on the world and therefore, we are not, you know, no one's relying on us anymore, but the question is, like, when you're setting up, should you be programming in a few things like

you can play with sanctions and, you know, Vincent guys, as well as the rest of the world between the platform and the ofac list. I mean. You and I will solve that and then we'll retire and they will sponsor more conferences. I like to see through this two, goats are just in terms. What what it, what are your thoughts? And feelings on defy compliance regulation and the appropriateness of that subject matter, the appropriateness of regulation in general, to defy? I'm not going to comment on the appropriateness of compliance

but we don't know, but I was just running a crate and then you got to support it truce is just a new kind of hinted on that and especially when you listen to us and saying it somehow I right now places with the reality of what we have, right, who is back and forth, as much as information that you may get, you are entering the class. And then once you're past that kind of early adopter State. We just don't have the world's to function like that. So, unless the roads are kind of changed,

right? You will have to do this somehow. And as much as you'd like some of the players in Switzerland right now, so I'm very much looking forward to your solution. I will definitely talk to it once you have it, but right now it's just super, super difficult. Whichever Brian and Michael is so specifically. What are your thoughts and just be brave? Call text Amma that. I'm interested in marrying the sort of crazy world if you don't like crypto, you know, my focus is trying to bridge the gap between

Baton to vacation and sort of traditional fire us cuz we we we sit at that at a university of thinking about the applied research versions to. So you know, when we talked about decentralized Finance, you know, as you mentioned before, you know, there isn't a VA is it is decentralized. There isn't allowed to use it wisely. All this kind of stuff. I'm very interested in the sort of hybrid version, right? Where, you know, we can actually have the minimally viable structure and compliance and and things like this, such that we can take this Innovation, which is truly Innovative

the magic. That's happened over the last 6 months. But, you know, also, maybe a lot of people probably not sustainable is not the same. Because it doesn't have the correct rules of engagements and there's a lot of bad behavior. And in any things are, you know, there's a lot of people who are like up a framework around in that innovation of being able to stake assets, and provide liquidity, and yield farm and things like that. I think could have legs in the traditional world and saw that that bridge between the two. I think this is

fascinating and I think we'll probably be the next phase of of, of development. And I'm very interested in scoring. I was just on another panel in the topic of discussion was Traditional wedding, private Legacy type financial institutions. Try to squash this will they try to adopt it, but going to reform it in a way, that works make sense in their world. Or are they going to be fundamentally changed? By working with these mechanisms. I mean, even if something is labeled as a bank in 10

years is it still going to be a bank? In the way? We understand the term? It might be in the university and working with his institutions is there a is there any of that idea? Well just going to be a massive disruption, write the traditional Financial ecosystem that whatever scale international monetary system banking system. Because technology is moving so fast and there's something so many, I would say, you know, compelling use cases that, you know, technology

will find a way to be to be used, right? That being said, you know, maybe just think about this in general, right? Like, you know, all this stuff for, you know, thousands of years to this completely and probably that beautiful ass world hasn't really panned out fully write it like I would argue that full decentralisation is almost akin to like communism, right? It's it's kind of like Just keep in mind that I'm talking about, you just stated it centralization with the way for thousands of years and it's been just over 12 years since the paper came out, might

someone to take you maybe give him like a couple of centuries. Just did like even up the score is little bit after that and now we have technology that will allow. But I think you actually do things in a practical way right hand, man. But I call it sort of minimally viable structure, right? Viable, you know, Rules of Engagement so that good behavior Can a trip, right? And so I think that that's really Where y'all that we went down this way and then we're going to bounce back. I do believe that somewhere in the middle of waves to where we can ask,

what was the disciple ization movement open Maximus. You're like, we don't need Central government's. We don't need any financial institutions. We going to have this utopian world where everybody is going to be a late Frost less than ever going to get along. I would say, probably there's a more of a hybrid solution where we can get both sides to to meet in the middle by Jessica. Please, maybe this is a bit of a controversial reason, hopefully not too controversial, but I can look at us. Like we're on a regulation and technology and finance at a very high level

of existence. We all get it, we all understand it. I mean, this is a v Balaji versus the whole world. I mean, send and individuals within and across group are going to want a bit more hand-holding. Perhaps I do think that the banks will continue to exist and financial institutions will continue to exist for csec with the panda, making everything else. There's a lot of competition and pressure for them to provide different services and virtual services and everything else, but I think no matter what we might, you probably should build in some safeguards, you know,

and and some on ramps for folks, who may not be the person in some of the ins and outs of the technology. Find a decentralized panel and there's some decentralisation maximus in there and I was channeling the, but I think is possible, or how does the centralization build an airport. You always wanting to build an ecosystem with our platform or saying this, but when you have real-world physical systems that have potentially catastrophic externalities like a nuclear power plant or an army or pollution or no illegal

pornography decided, but it has asked about them people around them, they didn't get to vote and didn't have control that you learned. Is that the Great Depression was caused by the stock market crashed into a depression stock market, crashed, legible with. Let's all kinds of horrible things and you didn't have to be an investor in the stock market, to be affected by the Great Depression and have your son drafted or you don't go find the Warren die. So do you need some level of control their arguments?

That I heard raised against that was looking at his Master's in history, has ever, done by governments. And I always feel that sort of tension Does one of the counter-argument that was raised is if we wanted her to keep on increasing the Nexus at what we decentralized, but there's always give me an outer sort of user interface wrapper around it, right, people, comfort and accessibility. I think you're going to get in that a little bit. Like, I don't want someone with diminished capacity or whose 80 years old, and I know a lot of Sharp 80 year old that the figure out how

use a freaking wallet. You know, there's someone doesn't need to hold her hand. That way I got a question is is that can be enforced of Regulation or was that simply going to be a market effect. And I'll throw that you first then, if anyone else wants to come in. You're throwing that to me. Building to create a wallet, but I mean somehow the ability to comprehend a risk, right? Operationally do this. And then another part that really is regulations. I was one of the twin names state of the SEC, right? Not to Foster

Innovation, but also protect those that, you know, need some protection. So it, even though I am so proud of you, I'm usually busy last us and and decentralized finance and everything else is obviously some people who don't know how to, Are some people who don't know, how do you do a variety of things yet? They might be able to log on and might not appreciate the risk. And I I just sent you have to even though it's not the most fun thing from a business planning or income

perspective. Turn off and been. What's your honor? Braunfels, South Glover. I think you again. Maybe bring your company. Is regulation appropriate generally or can we sort of Market solve for some of these issues? Well, if I understand, well, I mean, I think I agree with you guys in terms of giving another station from the traditional Financial world and the crypto wallet as we have seen. You know, we have been established in 2015 to 5 years ago. People, we're coming to us and you don't even know what you know. Love you. Lots and lots of way to become an to come

to. The regulations are regulations really important. So now, we hear about CBC, we hear about you and his other patients to have to connect Book World with be needed. I think it would be natural for the regulations will come Together. We are following the markets. You know weeds growing and regulation is adapting to towards user to try this. Another way that I say cuz it's a different definition of exciting and needed time for the people. I guess you know where we're coming down on the end of the session to look.

Does anyone see a truly Global regulatory regime arising in response to crypto and blockchain and these asses because they seem to be inherently globe or they just like the internet is an illegal Global or is that just a pipe dream and I'll throw that to Brian. Easy question. So I had to sell it. So if you thought came to mind. So the first one that did bring pulled together to strike as the one you asked, whether Banks themselves will perhaps adapt to some of these

Technologies. I mean the same way. Now, a lot of things have changed apartments, right? So yes they will. But what I'm constantly reminded that they feel all regulated so they still have to work within the Raging. So that's one aspect that I I do work in this on a I right? So I can pack the discussion to have Monday. 5, remind me of that right here, trying to put the automation together so the AI governance aspects. I don't like the way the Epix, but you know, the government affect, how we deal with that on a global basis, right? It says it is perhaps there's some insights from that,

it's not an easy and it's a wicked problem, right? But once you create the AI, Out in the world. How do you stop it? Right? So so that there's some lessons allowed around that and people looking at how to regulate its self-regulate through through governance, mechanisms flash ethics. And to the last point, I thought I want to throw out. There was the Assumption almost at David's, decentralized that, you know, everybody again, we empower the individual. And we all love that and I think about what Josh was saying. And again, Perhaps it is some of us a noise coming from that background.

You know, a lot of those came to existence as a kind of consumer protection defile of those approaches, almost assume that you don't need consumer protection. You can look after yourself. Thank you very much, right? So, but I think most societies believe that we should have some degree of protection. We we we we disagree about that. Extend the part that I wanted to throw out there with pendulous. Can I come charge controversial? As you know what? The degrees in US elections, right? But maybe not. Exactly. So how many people were saying this belief is that such

as the numbers largest number of votes in history, right? And other countries are like but how many people voted again? So you have the largest democracy that has all the rights to vote and you don't exercise it. So what happened to defy, when all these people have these right, but they don't know how to use it or they don't exercise it and you have the whales come in and wailing, right? So that runs the market. So. So let me just throw that out there for consideration. Now, it is the beautiful points. I know you better. Let me also point it

might, but with my, I think you cleverly evaded, my bag overarching crazy question which is you do see this driving towards a global rather party with you just because it has to Or is that a pipe dream? Okay, so we tried globally to create this thing called the League of Nations. In kind of work, we tried writing the UN thinking of work and they are still trying, trying. But if you know, it's not easy, right? As Global Palace change and shift. Example, I'm involved in the initiative called the Asian dialogue for AI

governance. And why did we feel that important? Is because a lot of the narrative on AI is American and European. We need an Asian. How can you get my? I just read article yesterday that ate the trend is clearly moved ahead of the US. Now, when come say I do, if if a foster develop something, it needs enough meeting of the minds. So so that's why I kind of Interesting. They really going down to technical requirements, right? To the trying to go down to the iso, the IEEE type. Look, let's let the the

highfalutin politicians argued that the Technician degree on the technical stand it so that we can talk to each other, right? And then you build from that intense. A different protocols. So, so now, do you know with the IV M101 standard. The theory is that if you agree on the data standards, then how how do you know, how the different protocols can talk to each other? They'll be lots of different, protocols, that will arise. And that will be, you know, so many of us did betamax versus you know, right? And you know, let that the protocol was three Again Begin, right? But the

whole point is we need to find enough commonality. Now that the thing with the defy I think me and Brian Libertarian perspective. When they don't like the government's in, if anything coming back to your earlier point of governments, do have a lot of power and they can stop stuff. So so right, no matter where you are what you do. They will find a way, the best way is to how can we make it a more efficient manner so that I will can be better you know, generally speaking. Turn up I would like very much to. Thank our esteemed panel is very

interesting. I like this Global Perspective. I like that. We had a wide-ranging. Kind of philosophical discussions. Do so thank you all very much for your Insight and your time that you've to watching week. You know this is fantastic. So I wish you all well stay safe hope to see you all very soon again. Thanks everyone.