HK Blockchain Week 2020 - Panel: The Rise of DeFi: From Hype to Real Life Use Case

Hello and welcome everyone to honk on blockchain a week. I am ready to work truck event in investor relations manager at stop now and then bassador at boxing Association of your grades. Really excited to be here and welcome our amazing panelist. So please give it off to Nathan Doctor. Who is the founding partner of infinix capital is it crypto asset investment firm? As if it mattered Rick Ross DCF and Kristen that works having invested early in many top 50 cryptocurrencies and top 10 DIY project before, I'm actually operates in the prodigals be investing,

Nathan has been invested in crypto since Bitcoin. In 2013 developing an ability to anticipate donated use cases. It's a platform for assassin software. Engineering skills used by clients include an apple Facebook in sue. The company also about the free coding skills, Community College. Code words that calm Nathan is a fellow at the Edmund. Hillary fellowship and has spoken to the range of events from Crosby are Maria. And also decade of experience in trading and financial markets prior to joining copper, he was the head of trading and coins super. Before he was an equity

derivatives Trader, he obtained a bachelor and Bachelor of Actuarial studies from Macquarie University in Australia, welcome Johnson. Very good yourself. Your device of defy with that which actually become a high. But we are going to discuss from the hike to the real used it. So actually if we look at the data this year, in the third quarter of the difficulty of Josiah has been defined by the largest bull run since I see a woman, a lady 2017 and early 2018 and the total value actually lock the device actor hits record. I checked today in the morning it was

13.8 billion dollars it's almost 4:10 billion dollars so can you please explain and share with us this increased demand for defy what are the main reasons for their and what might be the consequences? Yeah, it's a great question. There's a lot happening in defy world. It's been forming over the last year, I'd say, and really 2020 and started to take. But I'd say the number one use case here, is that, for the first time we're now seeing on Shane, all of these ways to unlock value from the cryptocurrency. People hold. So ether Bitcoin on either Weatherby

wbtc run, BTC Etc. There's now all sorts of ways to actually get healed from these. So what are be from loaning trading at flying as liquidity providers yield farming with an all the range of products that are out there. And so there's a whole new opportunity set for profit making. Jonathan. in your opinion, I guess the features of I'll definitely play a major role of the increasing demands a Tickler be actually in additional features where a lot of people depending on

it. So basically anybody with internet access can be able to access the device service. Another always want, you know, you're coming from a tree in background, will be impatient and everyone put the ones with the way I see. It is compared with 2017. You have more institutions actually involved in fighting on GTA V for you because, you know, they're on the you find me rather than actually felt something interesting on. This is speaking of consequences. You do have, you know, some of the common pain Point around the device plays in the

name, lady network injections, you know, this month, country's security risk excetra. This is one of the things, which you mentioned, which is not one of the most like probably the main Trends if we're talking specifically about these by it actually is not only like Steve fight is like additionally. Why don't the hottest Trends in crypto space? But they're already. I would say for Trans. Where did you find him? What is this important 3-20-20? This is important to report by consensus, which is the youth.

Farming government-sponsored soaking the rice of automated market makers Forbes, the River, Thames and 45 and so cold weirdest bikes. So, here I would like also to ask you because Nathan! Took, nice BBC. Would you also like to I would like to also like you to specify on so cold a weird defy because is this like the Deep by which we were aiming for it or is it like an additional Bible verse which is growing In this case, I'm talking about what's resemble. So cold either will be

fought in project for example. Yeah, so the way we think about the size and I don't know the French term weird defy but I would save that defy. For the most part has been this very interesting glaring where we started to see it accelerate and last year, but you guys existed since the beginning with e r e. M when makerdao came out for the first time. It's been a whole layer of projects that I feel different foundational. Pieces. Beauty of what's Happening Now with defy those. We've now got to such a level of composability that these projects are starting to interact

with each other. In ways that are completely haven't been anticipated and so you start to see a flash light come on a Holiday Inn within three different cops you have these trays that just never would have worked in the past and don't even exist in the Trap by market. So we're starting to see this really interesting synchronicity happening. Where all of these products Together, free unanticipated, use cases that they didn't even really anticipate themselves. And so I'd say that's probably the most exciting as the emergence that's going on there. And we're even seen that now, they're

still. So how many layers of new types of fundamental, paradigms are still being brought into the device off from future has two options Etc, that still don't fully exist in the market but are being bailed out and then all of the intersecting components there, which I think is where the true excitement is. Jonathan, the bubble that you can, before I think the landscape actually looks a lot healthier compared to help the year, just the typical a sentiment has already packed and inadequate to funds, and Traders are a lot more

cautious to select me to Quality projects them to invest in for them to trade, for me, I don't believe they'd be fighting over space, would automatically take over the entire traditional institution. But having said that, is certainly what work quite well, on particular areas, for example, in the American colonies in and providing access to his own, kind of acting like a bridge today, traditional fine as well. But also I think you'll be very interesting to see, you know, where a lot of a traditional institutions. To collaborate with existing for to community to see if I will

actually benefit. If I spaced you actually benefit from a very healthy and organic growth. Actually, as you mentioned previously, by the way, when we were talking about the fight and there is like, I'm not so big demand for its kyc procedure. Can you tell is this place or minus to, to to, to regulate because sleeping is actually no kyc whatsoever, right? Compressor. And so, do you know traditional well, where, you know, Hindi in the major component of human stuff on the exchange died, on the Orion lending, you always have a regulator or you always like I said, Kathy

intermediaries to overlook the entire ecosystem, rather interesting. In the sense that first, I mean, from a regulated suspect he was definitely a mine is for them. But I guess, I mean, actually benefit from the organic growth where you was at a funeral. People, especially from the American economy, economy is going to ask that access to those different products without, you know, if he wants it. But in general, you know, just on the demand side, it was that made

and this is exactly one off the last use mentioning as far as bringing in all of these unbanked, individuals into the banking sector. I think that's one of the most exciting is that not having this kyc, you end up realizing that the current Financial system really does create a stratification of class. If you have a passport, if you have a password from a specific country, certain level of wealth credit score etcetera. You get access to financial products. If you don't say,

you're an illegal immigrant in the US. You have zero access any sort of financial products for the first time I would be if I were seeing something, I can't really Go Global any way that anybody with a smartphone. so, one of these He one of the main ideas as a mansion one of them I would say brilliant ideas behind. If I was to create this finances how can you compare by the way? Nice. And as also you mentioned like deep are projects which were like also dreamt to create this new reality

of Bright New Reality. Make your dog before but also can you share like from Jonathan YouTube? What was for example, the idea of this West let's just say dream defy and what is the versus reality defy. Right now, I would say the interesting thing is I don't know that defy was ever truly a cohesive dream and that's kind of the beauty of the ecosystem that is all of these small dream. Use that ended up at Clyde and intersecting. It wasn't until there's enough when he cusses the momentum of people, even started calling it the right in the beginning. When

you first had stablecoins are completely permission. Listen to buy Central agency wasn't yet d50x when I can. It wasn't yet defy. And so, I think what ended up happening and the beauty of it is that all of these fundamentally needed products in the space ended up pulling up to the surface and realize. And while we're all going to interact together and really, and now I'm going to be five component part about the ecosystem, is the interactions that's going on there and I think moving forward like the dream of what that looks like is equally as interesting in the sun.

You'll end up seeing a lot of things that no one's going to spit. And then there's a lot of things that people do anticipate a lot of traditional Financial products that will be pulled into this. I would like us, I would like to ask Nathan because that's what you said. You're good at predicting and dissipating something. What do you anticipate right now? Hey question. Yeah, so we have an event, has been quite a few to like the Thematic vertical. So, start my stablecoins. Dexter's, we are really early on right now. We think that future is a really exciting future

specifically, its huge market and pretty clear asset product. I think they're going to be very interesting. The biggest aspects that I think it's just starting the application letter. And so aggravated in there, on the fire, you know, these metal protocols exited top on top of all of the different Guild farm and protocols with some other type. So you're in, for example, Wi-Fi, the ability to direct Steven points towards the best deal. Taking seeking motive private lair in an automated way, I think is really fascinating. That's only going to accelerate. We're just starting to see the

beginning of that. Where everything that we seen kind of the ETF world in the traditional money manager realm is going to just go light speed, because of the defy World ride, you combine that with composability and also the ability to But this logic inside of a real smart contract and there's a lot of potential. Okay. And Jonathan, we're at telling your perspective like where do you see the most potentially this year? I guess it just comes down to the main three area. 3T Arizona, traditional and centralized finance office. Needs a payment

in between our universes institutions, or PCP have potential to have a cheap and potentially Foster payment process Landing. For example of second victim. You know, you're supposed to be fired as well as the traditional space. Again, you know, if I will facilitate to be landing, as well as providing a, such a low-cost alternative compared to traditional Finance, find out, when will be changed a lot about the decentralized exchange in a way you don't have to talk to, you know, being did

you know that three areas? Understood what is your perspective, how it made influence the traditional Financial Financial mark? I mean, I guess if I mean obviously, you know, you're not even before I mean, cryptocurrency, as sequence of taking the spotlight lately, you have all the e major, you know, you asked Mr. Companies that will buy. It is a good Trend, you know, if or I wouldn't say massively, you know, like masseduction overall? Where is it? Just getting a lot more in the spotlight from

difference of social media wear, a traditional. Well, you actually look at me. No, stay back. Ashley. Look at sir, I guess the main thing for the traditional guys is you never forgotten his life. We have an amazing product, 2025 product, and this is something, you know. With the challenge them, the way they do get, this is something that can improve, you know, it is something that can actually think of the collaborate with the community in order to enter providing, you know, just exactly. I mean PayPal is a definition with example, how they recently just enable that payment pictures

search. I will also you know and his face to see a lot of different. You know, you're not mainly, you know, you have a very cash, you know, how wealthy companies have to buy Bitcoin, but, you know, actual strategic way to treat you unable to walk into it. I'm sure it's reasonable in this case, if PayPal. And if you're true, would not only allowed to trade big brain, but also receiving points. Like, for example, in this case maker doll project. And I mean, in this case, the general General device, I mean, letting you know, PayPal to

enable do you know, the huge amount of uses Bae Stephanie, increase, liquidity, parts or anything. Just comes down to it, you know, if it's actually the most especially from the condition of Geist. And then this is dinner a very good friend or a housing project in general to leave unit in standard by owner of very smart people, or crippled communities, to create an amazing product that can actually rely on its own. And there stood a nice. And what do you think about that? Yeah, I agree with the sentiments. And I also think the biggest aspect

there just creating more payment rails, to allow Fiat onboarding into crypto. So if within your PayPal app you can get access to bitcoin and he saw, stablecoin Weatherby, die usdc Etc. I think that just opens the floodgates for consumers and users to start to come into these projects into the ecosystem lot stronger. So, I think that obviously, that was a big component. 2017 was allowing Capital to flow into the market and the more seamlessly make that transition. I think it also will end up resulting in heavy or spikes up when there is Market sentiment and forever and

people, do you want to buy land and now it's all so easy for them to do so. You know what? It's really sounds really interesting and really exciting at the same time I was also would like to touch one topic which might be. And this case a bit painful and really challenged and 45 because, you know, every almost every week practically, sometimes, every 2 to 3 days, I'm reading the news of what's Happening Define about the newest have the problems right now, which he fired face in the most are the actually the problem with cyber security, like the

attacks with this is like just the other day at least as long as it has lost. How much Emily I forgot already. So there is like one of the biggest. I would say it's probably cost in defy our cyber security. How can you comment on this? There is how it can be influenced. Generally the trash People work, as we can see, it doesn't matter from their interest in the help. I See Fire is locked in right now. Yeah, I think it's there's two sides to this. I think first you have to separate out the types of attacks that are going on. So you have purely Financial at Oxford /

Loan in smart contracts in the way they were intended to. And then you have other attacks, which is a general security vulnerabilities that the contracts and sells the company that put out, these contracts didn't care. So on one side there is going to be on the first side of the security vulnerabilities. I think that's going to be an ongoing game of companies businesses, haven't complained endlessly and the more Innovative and creative you got with those contracts. The more Omer bilities to introduce on the flip side of that, there's also a lot of potential there. In the

sense that we do, see a lot of projects roll out really quickly by using baseball contracts from other projects, If you look at some products, for example, their base level contracts, have been use multiple times for other companies to quickly get a relatively complex project up and running, without having to go back and read trust everything. So, I think that's a really positive thing on the other side. The fact that there does need to be a huge amount of a lot of work, but definitely slows down Innovation. And progress is not the same as Web 2.0, where you can just

throw up an application in. For the most part not have to worry that he's our funds are a huge risk. So I think some degree that's going to be a continue the game and we'll see how that goes and progresses on the other side as far as Financial attacks. To be honest. I actually have a contrarian view. I think it's actually a good thing for the space. I think it would general for the ecosystem. Yeah so I would say like flashlands for example they've introduced all these potential vulnerabilities has accelerated and he's made it more accessible for people with lesser amounts of capital but

maybe more insight into the actual technology and smart. Trucks and how specifically they work to take advantage of those and two I think in general it's very similar to free markets. I think you in any sort of economic system, do a much better job of creating rebuff system by having a free market economy and so it's the same in the crypto world where if you do go by this rule at code is law, which is effectively the way it works. Then you do also after fully adopt a mindset, that everything that's out there does need to be flash tested with these

Financial attacks, actors in mind and there are solutions to them. So just force is all of these contracts going back to point one of these projects and the smart contracts themselves to be that much higher quality. And I've thought about these things before him to Thank you, don't completely agree with Nathan. I mean I'm going game I mean not in general or even a traditional economy but I completely agree with Eastern in the sense that every project you know regardless of whether you know you

actually even if you are a project Arena, if you're interested, no traitor. You need to do your homework, you need to make sure you understand the actual model Village Wine. And I think in the long run it will. I mean, the local ecology project is going to get cash out and that remains is actually the quality one where you have a very high security, send the send them about mentioned, what do you think? Additional main challenges for defy in the future which it will it will and may face. I would say the biggest one right now scalability. So that's, I mean, this is something we've

come back to you since 2017. I think that was the peak of the 2017-18 Volvo is crypto kitties and everybody realized that it's kind of silly game can bring down the aetherium, not working kind of grind it to all and so it's the same thing on the, the device ID, even, you know, a couple months ago are looking at two hundred $500, gas fees transaction costs, and that doesn't really work for the consumer Market. There still a lot of, you know, higher-order transaction values that can still go through at that. But the truth is, if we truly want to take the fight to the consumer Market, we

need to have scalability solution, whether that's optimism, Roll-Ups etcetera. So We'll see how that plays out. There's a lot happening there in this case, I would like also Nathan. What do you think about was like in 2017 again next year, and that's worth a lot of other projects when it's like to track and they did a tract, a lot of creative, as well as you are now. I can also see you again before, I think I project the same with you. How do you say you still

up? Are they in competitive in this case or no, I don't know if anybody interesting Alternatives teeth out there. So if I definitely is youth Centric at the moment, but everything from Solana polka dots, really fascinating, or seeing some stuff out of Cosmos, Not even on Cosmos directly a lot of chains that are built off of Cosmos. So there's definitely a lot of interesting things happening with Andy fine. Personally, I think it's a good thing for that to happen. I think the more we see a proliferation of Dubai projects across different chains, you end up getting kind of a

Twin Cities effect, right? Where you're better off having multiple major metropolises trading with specialized in what they do really well then having one that tries to do everything and that's where you get an even more vibrant, ecosystem, Call on the confederate soldier serum again and also what's the main challenges? Might be sure that the accused man of over concentration in one single necklace at the moment, but you know pretty much is serum base account for 80% of the total Walker Valley, right? I mean, he's actually open a lot of

opportunities for other protocol example years. And, you know, I mean, the fact that is actually The Mentalist and then there's no kyc require actually make the whole Landing landscape, very inefficient in the sensor. If you're running a land on Landing platform, you need to have some control over collateralized and actually virtually no. Play to facilitate an unsecured line, one potential way to cancel that could be said of credit school. You know Carol call if someone is developing it but in the meantime I mean, the landing space is

still relatively inefficient, juice juice affect us this place. Thank you, actually a Nathan and Jonathan and Alice's of it and they take advantage. We are about to reach 2021. How can you tell and this is not investment advice? But in this case, what type of projects in defy deathly, we should look into and which not be about the hype but really will be about the real use cases, so it's not only okay, I'm I don't want this case to compare. These are like only for

this money, like I was only four game, these are the traditional decentralized Finance War were intended to be, but you are saying me, what should you look into you? And you may say without the name if it's possible, but definitely what we should follow next year. So as far as new projects to follow for next year without mentioning the names I would just go back to verticals and starting at the top all the way down like lending is really interesting. Derivatives are extremely interesting, the entire deck space is interesting and with that off of the deck

space we're going to start sea, futures or options soon enough. And then the big component of that I did it branches out that we are still just starting to open in Tuesday entire consumer market. So how do we get consumers into defy? I was that look like, and there's a whole list of components that go into that, will there be smart contract while I would still be easily, allow them to Rock With You by protocols. More automated tools that allow you to take advantage of her to defy protocol, has to offer us a free sample automated staking Services, where is Stevi protocol that steaks for

you so you don't have to interact with it. Jonathan. Yeah I'm on my phone and text me. Five tourist a derivative space. He's been. I am you know myself up in the refrigerator for quite some time and the natural way for these 5 canoe you know your Spanish going to be in love with a tradition exchange exchange and then do a lot more room to be done in the derivatives I am right now. The product is still relatively simple strategy standpoint and then sits on the complexity of the product and it's just a whole new level of you know, how you can

wear a lot of the different products can be. So your reference from their traditional Market Sandpoint. I understood the last lie. Example, like in this case, the price of Bitcoin again and it's Wednesday and it will. Again, it was the price of different if I purchased as we can see, now the bull run or will it like in this case will not be related. I think they're always going to be correlated. So you've been interesting late is. You mentioned today about 13.8 billion dollars TV I locked up and defy that's directly affected by the price. What you said, I said that it will be like,

almost like almost absolutely. Look at a lot of the money, that's locked in Bitcoin, a lot of that is some synthetic derivative Declan WPGC run PTC etcetera. But beyond that to you, I just think there's a natural sea, soft active more liquidity in the market more Bitcoin holders with more money, that's going to flow into the rest of the space and that's a very natural effect. Is it like that? And I guess I mean my my my feeling is the correlation with improved even better if the actual institutions. To

Unicom and play on the device base right now, a little baby in a traditional guys. Do iPhone bitcoin-only, but when they actually have a thing and then study, what if I actually like that? This will actually, you know, become a different story. Okay, thank you so much once again, Jonathan C and Nathan doctor today at honkin. Bluffton week about the rice of defy from beehive to real use cases and actually really your points really valuable and definitely worth not only to follow, but I also like dig deeper and find out would be like

deeper and more detail. So thank you so much for your insides. Thank you so much for joining me. I am ready able to talk or Uncle Bucks in two weeks. At least enjoy the rest of the week and have a nice day. Thank you, thank you Maria. Thank you, Nathan likewise, thanks.