Block Live Asia 2020
August 31, 2020, Online
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Block Live Asia 2020 - The Defi Uprising Week 3 (Full Video)
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About speakers

Fernando Martinelli
Co-Founder & CEO at Balancer Labs
Nate Hindman
Growth at Bancor
Michael Egorov
Chief Executive Officer at Curve Finance
Robert Sharratt
MD at CrescoFin
Nicolás Arqueros
Chief Technology Officer & Entrepreneur in Blockchain at dcSpark.io

Co-founder & CEO at Balancer Labs. Balancer is a non-custodial portfolio manager, liquidity provider, and price sensor.

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I am a journalist turned marketing leader who has partnered with startups and Fortune 100 companies to scale products and platforms from inception to global scale.

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Insured, interest-bearing deposit accountsIn USD, EUR and CHFStablecoins coming soonFor institutions and individualsPowered by blockchain technologyAvailable globally

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Started coding at 13 years old and trained in college as an Industrial and Electronic Engineer. Spent my early career building a number of companies where I led teams developing software (primarily iOS and Android applications). Fell in love with the technologic and economical principles behind Bitcoin and decentralized finance, so naturally I ended up transitioning into cryptocurrencies, where I've continued to lead and grow technology teams focused on solving cutting-edge problems.Today, I continue to grow as a entrepreneur and executive in leading a new blockchain venture (EMURGO, part of the Cardano blockchain). As the CTO of EMURGO I oversee multiple internal and external initiatives. Inside EMURGO I lead multiple projects like the Brandmark joint venture, where we use blockchain for traceability in the food industry, and advance the cryptocurrency Cardano. Externally, I support the Cardano Foundation by helping to grow an ecosystem of developers.

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About the talk

Catch up with everything that went down on 28th September 2020, where we invited 4 esteemed speakers to share their valuable insights and talk about what's in the #DeFi landscape.

Our Speakers Lineup for Week 3:

1.Panel: DEX — What is AMM, Bonding Curves, Impermanent Loss and Price Slippage | Fernando Martinelli, Nate Hindman, Michael Egorov (01:18)

2.How DeFi is disrupting Traditional Finance | Robert Sharratt (1:25:11)

3.DeFi in Cardano - The UTXO Way | Nicolás Arqueros (1:43:19)

Lastly, a special thanks to our speakers, partners and sponsors for making this event possible.

Partners & Sponsors:

The Defiant

Aavegotchi

Interaxis

Balancer

MakerDao

Emurgo

About Block Live Asia-

Organised by Grounded.Work, Economics Design and First Wave, BLA 2020 is a three-part digital event focusing on the recent trend within the #blockchain and #finance industry - DeFi. The DeFi #economy has grown massively this year as the total value locked is inching towards $9 billion. One day in DeFi is indeed 7 years in traditional finance.

However, the barrier of adopting DeFi as a platform remains, as the general public does not understand the concept of DeFi well. We believe that DeFi is more than a short-term trend and it fundamentally innovates our existing financial system, giving the world access to an unlimited number of financial products and services.

Therefore, we have a Two-fold goal for BLA2020: To educate the masses about the potential of DeFi and inspire mass adoption of this #technology.

BLA2020 Agenda-

Day 1 = Defi Introduction (31st August 2020)

Day 2 = Project Introduction (14th September 2020)

Day 3 = In-Depth Technical Explanation (28th September 2020)

Register for our next event: https://www.eventbrite.sg/e/block-liv...

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Website: https://www.blocklive.asia

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bloc...

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blockliveasia

Telegram: https://t.me/blockliveasia

Economics Design-

Website: https://www.economicsdesign.com

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/EconomicsDe...

Grounded.Work-

Website: https://www.grounded.work

Linkedln: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grou...

Economics Design-

Website: https://www.economicsdesign.com

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/EconomicsDe...

Grounded.Work-

Website: https://www.grounded.work

Linkedln: https://www.linkedin.com/company/grou...

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As we get more people on board, I think I just introduced you to the speakers and the floss. Today's event 2 today is the last of the three-part series of the refi Weber. Now. We talked about the introduction to defy, what's better expect a different risk? And what is defying the first place in the second. The second Revenant, we had a little bit more of a Q&A. We had different people introducing the different aspects of defy and efficient, the video quality Is this HD?

Hi Nate. Yes. So when did in this last forever. We're going to start off with a panel to talk about m, a m m, a m, a on a mess. And then we're going to have two other introductions to different kind of things in the device space. So one will be on how he fighting UPS Regional Finance and the second one will be on the other Leo on protocols. We just got done with it. Could be another alternative for Wednesday if I can be upon you today we have with us from vancor and Nate is ahead of gross at the God particle. He first stumbled upon an immense on aetherium

in 2017 and has been hooked ever since then we also have Fernando Martinez Ballinger and Fernando is an engineer with monsters in robotics an image processing yesterday in NBA in Paris. And before creating balance of protocol, he found a few startups and worked at as a consultant for Bain & Company. In Germany, we also have Michael. But from Carl fighting, Michael is threatening busy. So you're just stopped us. And then if Mike is coming a boy that you just jump on board. So I think that's all we

get started. Maybe. maybe I'll meet you on, introduce yourself, as I need to do some what bank or does and then when do you can introduce yourself and introduce what benefit us Yes, sure, thanks for having me. So, I've been with bank or for about three years before that, I was a financial journalist for some time. And then also Bill mobile startups and eventually stumble on bank or in about 2017 kind of just randomly while I was Trading Post and found out that they didn't have any order books and was pretty interested by that and really understand what's

going on. So dug a little deeper and started to kind of learned about the concept of a M&Ms and liquidity provision from 4 to refill, token holders. And so yeah, it would project for a few years back or is based on a m m. We call it a liquidity protocol you can build with any two tokens. But I will focus is around building, a mess with PNC and yeah, that's that's pretty much it. The floor is yours. Brennan, do you want to go next? Sure. Yeah, I think you should just be quite well. So yeah,

I'm Fernando I been interested in print. So since 2013 was very excited when he sees you came out. I was always kind of what I understood the importance of Bitcoin and separating stage from for money and the consequences that that could have and we'll have I think in the future I realized the importance of stablecoins in order for quick till 2 to get Mass adoption and the need for smart contracts in order for that to to be possible. And I got involved with a makerdao community

and later on came up with the idea already 2018 about balancer was, I was kind of following all the discussions around a man's vitalik, Allen blew it was like back in 2016-17. Yeah, I went awesome. Ankara was around. So I had this idea of the way to grade liquidity pools with two or more tokens where you get to choose different weights. So you can have kind of an index fund where that liquidity pool, South balances, the down that the amount of tokens it holds in order to make sure

that the percentage in value that each of those tokens have any remains constant, which is the right. So that that's kind of balasore was born and then turned out that it can be used for a lot more things. And yeah, I'm very excited to share some of those here today and discuss with you guys, Sunday locations of that at all. Awesome. Because this is an introduction and a little bit more introduction to defy and in general people usually either don't own tokens, don't know yet or just owned a very traditional Bitcoin or ethereum can you give an introduction to what is a m? M.

M, m is so revolutionary. Everyone is talking about Play whatever you can say like what is how it has been used in your protocols because you guys are very different? Protocols? Yeah, well I don't know if our protocols aren't that different. I think the this sort of used case is you have a smart contract that holds an amount of usually one or more tokens and these on Shane reserves are used to algorithmically buy and sell as opposed to using an order book and spoke to stake their tokens inside.

These contracts are able to generate be from each trade, that the passes through the contract. And you know, everything is kind of fully transparent fully on Shane, and I guess the real innovation of a man's is that previously in order to be a market-maker to provide your liquidity in order to facilitate on chain cover? Is there any space using the old traditional Financial world? You really needed a high-level technical capacity. There was a high technical

barrier and capital barrier to acting as a market maker in providing your assets or asset exchange. And the real innovation of a man is that anyone can act as a market maker. And I think the original kind of Promise of a man's is that, you know, you have tokens sitting in your wallet. Why not? Just put them in an amm. That provides liquidity. Meaning it makes it cheaper to trade in and out of the token. You're providing liquidity to and you can also generate fees based off of of those

traits with this idea for the democratizing and reducing capital and Technical barriers to liquidity provision, I think is really the sort of Tri in a V. And now I think a real goal as a spider's Builders is too kind of you know some of the underlying issues that I think a man's received a lot of criticism or explosion has really attributed to this. Used case of anyone being able to be a liquidity provider but how do we make that sort of more sustainable and ensure that they're sort of less risk for people who do an activity provider?

And feel free to feel free to add to that. Did you guys know you guys know just as well as I do? You know? I think we're all kind of sort of experts in this field. So, so, yeah. I hopefully come into the coolest thing about a Eminem's is the inclusiveness, the like, the fact that it democratize has access to any one being in a market maker. So, playing in traditional Finance. You have those specialized prop trading companies in Chicago, who kind of build those crazy fiber cables that are like a couple mini

second faster than the other companies and they win the race. Or they make a lot more money because his dad. And now, I'm going to do everything is trustless and you have Smart contract. So you don't need all those intermediaries and that makes it possible for anyone to buy and sell directly without a clearing house which is aetherium itself. So instead of like you having to have a Thoughts and some some infrastructure that 24/7 online to make sure that your orders. And I'm talking about the other option of word of Base book or article based

exchanges, you have to have like some infrastructure to make sure that you're not selling too cheap or buying too expensive in in in, in that requires infrastructure and it is expensive and it's out of excluding the masses from participating and there are some companies working on that as well, which I like hummingbirds. I don't know if you know, but they're kind of working to make sure that market-making for order book Base. Exchange is also possible end to end and axes as well which is pretty cool like yeah. It is more. Like how how

can we make sure that this is algorithm a logarithm please solved and you always selling at the right price and buying the right price. I really think that it's, it's shown the market product for the markets at, hey, Michael. He has shown that he has a lot of product markets. Its yeah. With all the success that I am M's have been seeing lately. Awesome. So right now, we have Michael joining us and Michael is the founder, of course. It's okay. If Michael finds a new Cipher and he graduated

with a PhD in experimental physics. So Michael right now we're just talking about what is a m, m, a y, a man's are. So why am I so revolutionary? For those of you who have just joined us, just a quick introduction to what I am is, what is Fernando has mentioned with all these other ways to do trade, you have audio books. So if I want to sell something and then I'll go to the other book and write this is for sale. And if they go to the other book and say, I want to buy 10 apples and then they all the book, be matching, all these people and say, okay, and

I'll met you together to. This is quite an efficient because you have to wait for someone to have 10 apples before you can buy 10 apples. Right now. What were you doing with a man's? Is that we linking or is apples and money together to these Parables together with meth? And so you could always come Does he treat? And that's why it's a man's are so big. Because a man has this thing called constantly quiddity because you can always be trading because the machine to always be providing order. Smart contract, will always be providing liquidity for you to trade. How how is, Michael, how is

Coke different from stuff like bank or stuff like that. Like uniform. Michael caniglia. Okay, Michael Michael. Can't hit Okay, with with banker and balance bank or just a lot of ketchup, a trait and balance. So it's more of like a portfolio management where you could have ssd1 it's almost like an someone like you can be a manager of a fund manager and you put the kind of ss. You wanted to your little fun and you can have the different kind of way takes you one. So why is it just as it is for balancer? Yeah, so we've been

quite conservative in terms of limits, that's an arbitrary number. You could be could have been 10 or 7 or 16, the reason why we wanted to limit to a very low number initially, that would, you know, like if the eight tokens are very heavy in terms of gas cost to to move some of your seat when he's our arms are heavier than you might end up with a very costly transaction to add liquidity. So if you had like a hundred tokens in a pool in each one of them cost, 500000 to add to route to move, then you would go beyond the limits of a block. So you would never be able to add liquid.

That is an arbitrary number and we're so yeah. The math behind the behind balancer. Do not does not limit any flight the number of tokens. If it's more of a yeah, I guess. Kind of cost from Eva talking into frosting. So different kind of Leon protocols, which bank has has done. How close will is that to be on Ballenger because with other parking options the guess he's so much cheaper and transaction costs a lot cheaper Yeah. Absolutely. We, we see balancers platform word, lair. One

agnostic. Of course, is like bouncing was born on Syrian and we are still focused 100% on a small team, but we're working with a lot of older layers, layers one, and two actually, not only wants like near likes Lana like polka dots. And in many different lady wants, as long as you have balancer deployed to those Chronicles, you will be seen as part of the balance of family. So you can you still get texts about tokens for a program. So anyone who provides the

bouncer because they are participating, they get some every week in in the context of liquid I can explain more what that is but yeah he does that he's welcome regardless of what it is. That the market will find the right. Sweet spots, right fit. So probably or like you said, like the small guy who has their their their little portfolio that they want to keep balance that that person with $1,000. For example, wouldn't be doing it a good decision to to create a bouncer pool, only cerium today with

such high gas prices. That person would be better off, on, on year or Salina art and outer layer one with less less. So yeah, just apply to dose. And also sounds good about the Arbitrage trading, is that it's not risk. Sweet, if I'm contributing as adequate liquidity provider. And one of the biggest risk is in permanent loss that everyone is talking about and stuff or just cleaned. I swept it, the projects trying to solve its importance of attempting to solve it. How are you guys living in permanent loss in your

different protocol? Difference between you holding the tokens without selling any and watch. You would have if you participated in an a.m. that's the definition of a man and the price of a ghost 5x recipe. So if you are on an amen, you would be selling. This is early token a right as price goes up. Otherwise you wouldn't be market-making. So to me and I'm curious to see what what made in in Michael think. But if it's your selling at any price between 1 and 5, you going to be doing a bad deal, if you stop at five and then you look back and say while I still had some at 3. I sold some

at 4. Or tokens are on the way from 125. X necessarily are doing a bad, a bad deal. So to me in permanent loss and I just kind of proof that it's it's inhuman to Market Macon stay, if you want to be market-making if you want to sell it, if one of you want to let people by token, a at Price 3, you have to sell it at 3. So if you end up in price five, then you necessarily are going to be doing you a worse. Then you would have if you had held onto your totes at the price for life

right now, which is is in permanent loss solvable. You know, is it there there's some people on One campsite, it's just a natural function of market-making. If you want to be a market-maker, you always have to sort of deal with this, with this exposure to risk. And their there are teams Saying that, you know, we think we've meaningfully improve the situation. We're really attacking this head-on. I would think bank or lands for the in the, in the camp where that is really attacking the solution. I think the answer is sort of somewhere in the middle of, you know, whether whether it's

solvable, I do recognize that it's a sort of, it is a part of a natural part of market-making, but the amount that look pretty providers are currently paying to, arbitrageurs does feel that it is too high. And I think this is where we can really innovate is sort of reducing the amount that LPS end up paying to arbitrageurs. I think in the current environment Inns in lots of cases seeing a sort of massive transfer of wealth, from LPS to arbitrageurs without a lot. LPS really kind of even knowing the extent of a bit. And it feels that we're sort of,

in this, kind of compensation stage, where we are, you know, doing airdrops and protocol incentives. And hoping that, that, in addition to the fees that are generated by the amm are enough to compensate for this risk of impermanent loss, but it does feel like the future in the answer is to develop a model where you are paying less to arbitrageurs. Then we are friendly and and that's really a lot of work. The bank where is doing in in our bank or be too and we feel it kind of made significant Headway there, but it is a particularly elusive problem to solve and

also an elusive concept to grasp especially given The level of analytics that a lot of LPS have access to today. A lot of people just see the big, you know, apy 1000% and are not fully realizing on the way out that perhaps the amount that they lost to do to in permanent loss is actually greater than whatever protocol incentives or fees that they aren't. Not a law because it's just an artifact of the strategy and the, if someone did a rebalancing strategy, it will do exactly the same

Valentine's clothes. Balancer. And, of course, you could rebound, not every single time I rarely bought them. Also just couldn't raise if he, and I have the same kind of rebalancing, its really an artifact of rebalancing strategy, which both balancer. And and like, it's not Like holding assets is probably probably makes market-to-market making fees on top of that. So that's not bad. Like we definitely, we do have the problem of impermanence lost and it's just actually the act that sweet you are using which, which may be

in permanent loss of my supposed to hear. Because you, you just like he's full of the asses off unless you are you kind of lose anything. If you're on a more Among Us at Birth vs Aldo, Allocate jugs YouTube app similar to the fastest way of having no no improvement lost tracks like you, could you put some Asian eventually. Hope you going down and fixed if yours. If he goes back up about usually asleep at the bag and if they break from the bag and faxes, they they usually returned back so

and as long as the whole week like our informant, both kind of 16,000 very quickly. Maybe, if you all look in that kind of a fraction of a percent deviations, you may find a good time to deposit in the other. So that's kind of how you can play around. The information is lost, I would agree that maybe it's better to view it as more of a cost of providing liquidity and a cost that is paid to arbitrageurs I think from our view is that we can reduce the cost that you have to be to our betrivers. It's going to

be a good thing about way to speculators even like something very short time from caused by differences on the market. It's more like when they find the artist prices are Over long time because oracle's provide the price information just like how arbitrators, what does the albatross Traders will be doing the physical movement, give you the angle of what the prices should be. And can you not just change your formulas based on Jay formulas dynamically based on what the oracles are giving you in terms of the input a price information? So

that the challenge with oracle's is is it is effectively there, there will be a market to Arbitrage against that like there is no kind of Soul truth, Soul source of Truth for price. So so you know you could design your price function. That is you know, Jenny said, bye-bye in Oracle but then there will be another external Market where an arbitrageur, you know, kid get in faster than the Oracle can potentially update. So, so that's something that kind of consider when experimenting with with oracle's

and there's a lot of room for Innovation with, with the use of oracle's using layer to the legion. So I think that's something I definitely kind of keeping it. A very good problem. You're just saying that they will seriously be behind the market and you're a Target price and the basically use for that that happened on a certain block. Pay my screen lost because they are used on Oracle and the the Oracle was kind of flaking behind the market and had to take him to a man speaks up for that. I think what they came

up with is a Reclamation mechanism in, which basically is that you like when you do the You didn't sleep at all, the trade and the Sea. We should get charged a charge to actually appears to be like, in the truth. The only office sometime when we say we are you foolish sure. That if you're in blockchain other states that go down and I don't know if like I speak with bank or it should still be like one, pork should be still affected by the same issues in principle could be adjusted by like the size of the 50 bucks. I think something similar to

Christine face to look at it. I think it does add some sort of friction, obviously for the user and Finance has implemented something sort of similar in the form of a rebates to, to deal. With this issue. Another kind of interesting area to explore is, is utilizing the pool as a sort of Oracle that potentially based on the volume can predict the kind of price that will get from the Oracle such that the price at the pool is offering is somehow very, very close to the Oracle price that it's getting, you know

since we are just so focused on this issue, I've been permanent loss and have been experimenting a lot and RV to with with oracle's. It's been a very interesting experience kind of Employment Solutions in and really you don't see them operating in for real world markets in really understanding. Just how Fishing. The arbitrageurs are in in these markets. Yeah, right before care of, I miss something very, very similar to what one for is doing. Now, about the

speed was comparable to El, to basically, and basically quitting orders are faster than me. And then basically, you know, I was wrong for everyone or somebody else and I think it could be. Yep. You know I think it's it's kind of a sort of I guess unspoken thing in the industry that the I guess vast majority. Currently of volume on AM FM does seem to come from arbitrators and sophisticated arbitrageurs and it just kind of what I'm referring to about the sort of transfer of wealth that we really have to be careful about from providers to arbitrageurs

because it's, you know, it's actually not only from liquidity providers but it's from the protocols that are dropping in on anime. Unexamined drawing users into a situation in which, you know, your country and in a goldmine for sophisticated are. So it's it's definitely something that we need to innovate on and I would say that kind of in in the efforts that or the early stages of bank or B 2 in our utilization of oracle's we did sort of stumble on somewhat of an epiphany unfortunate. I can't really talk about it, but within the next few

weeks will be releasing an updated design. We're calling v 2.1. That were pretty excited about. We does? We, we do think does reduce the cost that LPS are paying to do arbitrageurs and does so effectively. So weird. It's been an interesting journey to see how much do you say to our house? And basically, I'm like balancero units and created for short time and yeah, basically for the face and then slowly Basically, I'm just don't make as much money in the Box.

Active, as long as it requires, their Antics have low enough where it attracted to Traders, but high enough that you're not paying so much to the ARP. So it's constantly, the sort of balance that that we definitely found where, you know, we were thinking with a dynamic fee, you could potentially replenish the deficit but then, if the fee is so high that Mark the option to trade again, so your pool just look at rated. I really tricky balance and especially it needs to be tested at a very light and broth market movement. So

I noticed that a lot of people who are super interested in them like yourself Michael come from a sort of physics background, why? That is like it does feel like it's a complex system there so many kind of different inputs and perhaps this. Yeah I think what the what the three ways things to me is that the money a mom like ours balancer on a kind of system and that feels very much like the reticle mechanics Almighty quantum physics. Where are you filed? What state

in which energy is changed and then if you were called everything all of their environment and this is kind of a very similar, but instead of Amalur, which was written for you, you're right. And you lost your right, and you look for, but for some money and then you out of Drive, everything out of that so that I can kind of see Cuz I think they can be rain. Formula is very interesting because it looks at how energy changes from energy, 12 energy to, but the total energy

introduce are consumed. It's always the same, which is exactly what a man, just because, no matter how much do cuz you change from A to B, the total tokens will always be the same application for something, functional money or whatever. One of those new thing in the urine protocol, is this thing called stable credit. So you just have one sided one. It's a pretty stable impact and the other off the token that other parent is exposed to. So the price volatility, what is

different because it's all the same to tokens that are quite volatile. And also the tokens are correlated to the other. And then you have just messaged me volatility in both of the token with your volatility and only exposes just one of the asset. What do you think about that? It's definitely something. It's very interrelated impermanent. Lost the idea of I just want to put my tokens in there, I want to be exposed to the price movements as though I had them in my wallet and

if you have no unpermitted lost her a little Improvement lost, you can maintain your sort of single I set exposure in. This is definitely something that had been poor is working on. I would challenge what you said about having a stable coin on one side of the pair, and having a volatile acid on one side of the pair, I don't think it's, it's proven that that will decrease in permanent loss. I think it's some case. It could actually increase it because when you know, infermon lost really has to do with the sort of Divergence between the the price of the asset or

the list based on the ratio when you enter. So typically, if your tokens are kind of too volatile assets in there, someone moving with each other sort of a lot of assets and to move with the market, they'll be less Divergence. I said on one side Bill potentially be kind of more diversion, so we could be us from there. I am itching and burning the permit in far, more of the stable, climb to cover that impermanent loss and this could lead to the stable, often being quite office off of tagged. And so I think there are some it's certainly an

interesting model and you know, speaking to the demand in the market for this single asset exposure, but I do have or it will be interesting to see kind of the extent to which the Stablecoin be mid to 1060 with Peg and whether those pools potentially, you create more in permanent loss than having to volatile Assets in the, in the pool. Fernando, do you have anything you want to ask cuz you've been quite quiet? Are you on mute? Give anything you want to ask? No, I'm actually not. I'm finding joining the enjoying the conversation. Okay,

that's great. So we'll be able to I would say it something. It's a bit more external. You can you're not a traitor. You just have your SS in there and that's a loss that you just have that just exist because you are part of the market makeup. But what about what about the different risks when you are a traitor? So you have price listed as one of the richest. How do you guys do with that in your Jeep of protocol? Now I guess I can. That's all that I took me to a

Target price which is of course to Target price allows you to do that. And when you come, and he's not more than then, Fernando, do you want to? Or jean jacket. Lancers that curve definitely very interesting Innovation. When you can keep both stable. And you know what that man is a function of the amount of liquidity that is in its reserves. So it's really that generated the most typically will offer the best prices. And so I think from our perspective, we are just focused on as much as we can mailing the

experience for When is Market maker and, you know, ensuring that we we hope that will attract enough liquidity to offer prices that are competitive enough. Of them are really think of it from a liquidity provider first situation where, you know, if you have the liquidity of liquidity is sort of King, then then you'll be able to offer the start of that traitor. Maybe Annie Annie on Cell. It's like to, to make about how these are kind of today on a man's. Like, I like to see sissy like uniswap Simplicity and it's always a trade-off, but it's 0.35

seat. Bouncer allows anyone to say, like, Mikey will be 01 or it would be 2%. So it's like, it gives you already some flexibility to find a better product markets it with those, what are you have? For example, and Michael is a shows that for several points or State of Affairs or tagged assets. You don't need such high seas. So I like to be like Eunice, La Paz like taxis with a fixed price. And then I'd like to see balancer was like, taxes that can choose whatever their kilometer fee will

be, but that's six as well. Do you have Mark pools, smart pools, which will change the fee dynamically? So, when there's more than the fees are increased, when there's last event, the freezer Caesar degrees and there's some, you can mathematically proof that, that's right. It's a function of the squared, Uber like whenever it's raining, a lot of people driving, then the price increases and more people, more drivers go to the street working for Uber. And

then you reach the supply is that the same for 43. Has surge pricing, or, or Diamond, dynamic character pay like, 1% or 2%, or 0.3% chance that pull more profitable, right? Because if, that's why, I'm, I'm, I'm picking And I guess I actually that might get this p is not even quite the most correct name for Traders because like probably it is literally right. Yeah, exactly. So. Yeah, but went, but it's important for a piece Michael because for Traders slippage and fees are the same, right? It just, they don't care. They just know that

the spot price of that and I'm paying more than that. But for the LPS that makes me back and forth and it's just the slippage that function is not accumulating value, the most, and the volatility is so, which is changing market conditions. How much how much you can trade, and I think you can probably have something about in the pool. Like, for example, when he was introduced, it was typically working for sounds 2%. Watch book higher 3% US dollar to percent wifey. If you try to buy wifey maybe this week which is much higher, but it's much lower than his

name was the right? Yeah, it's a bit counterintuitive, but it is. But if you take just the derivative, it's going to be the same for both sides and incorrectly. In my opinion, that what what makes batter is the more liquidity in the pool and for that to happen, if that fool has to be attractive or liquidity providers, right? If it's a What I'm saying is that Dynamic feet is a very good way to attract more liquidity, to reduce the pitch so that because you could have like a eat dye pool. But this

is usdc pool versus bbc pool. And if they're all different prices and I want to just trade East. How do they determine what? Which is the best pool to treatment? We have something called smart order router, which does the best rate for you. Including it also considers the, the guest fees that you're going to pay for balancer. We have two types of pools, natively, shampoos and private, wheelchair pools, are like Eunice walks there, immutable 6. So, the training

fee, doesn't change, but anyone who could look, And there's a private pools. Where only the owner, the creator of the book and couldn't agree, but on the flip side are totally flexible. So people can the owner can do whatever they want and does marbles are actually a mix of the, like a hybrid. It's actually a private pool controlled by smart contract. So the owner of the Bride of private pool is not you or Nate, or Michael. It's a contract and that contract works as a Gateway for external liquidity, to be added to that private pool. So people send their liquidity

to that controller to control arm in Searcy twenties. Say, okay, now, you own 50% of that fool that I own and then sends down. They look pretty but since it's a private pool that controller can do some some stuff to change that pool. In an example where are like for surge pricing pools, you can only change the trading feet. So yeah, so And that's kind of the Uber I mention. So if their last name and price goes down, if there's more demand price goes up. So let's go to the

questions by the people on the small, so-called balance and Bank project. What do you guys feel about the way to space as you both? Are you guys disappointed by the events that has developed in recent times? Recollect. No, I am not disappointed. I think you would farming is an amazing Innovation. An incredible growth hack. An incredible way to distribute ownership of your protocol, but I do think is somewhat of an issue and I I said this before is that yield farming sort of

masks the issue of impermanent lost that we're trying to compensate LPS because it's sort of, you know, you can lose a lot of money exposed to risk and in the amount of sort of yield Farm in the focus on youth bar me to sort of turned into sort of a hot money where whales are kind of or just any any user is trying to jump in and out of the pools and in and out of different pools and different. Protocols in enough, time to extract enough Uniformity in or protocol incentive in order to make up for the money that they're losing

to confirm it lost or that the cost to do. Arbitrageurs so, I think this someone undermines the whole idea of a m m, which is that it should be something for retail Traders, where they don't have to constantly monitor if they don't have to, you know, I have access to, I guess pools to constantly, come in and out of fools in order to make up for my permanent lost. So it's almost like in the past year or three months, we've figured out how to sort of like hold or point a hose and an am-fm

and spray it down with a lot of liquidity but we haven't figured out how to deal with the leakage of it and the sort of underlying issues and I think in order to have protocol incentives for Dubuque Stainable and really have to pay off for for retail users and abusers in general. Cuz I think a lot of people either. So we can holders are other not participating in the yield farming or just getting burnt out. Because I have to wake up every morning and, you know, was a thousand percent. And now it's like very little and

so, it's like they're getting a little burnt out on constantly monitoring their LP steaks. So I think, once we can come up with a more viable solution to the leakage issue and makes, you know, a little more sustainable I guess probably would want would be great to hear is hard before. They are you farming Maniac. There was a lot and I think it was happening with the FedEx on her and I think it was supposed to answer and you must be using everyone. And much

much more effective and basically For them. And I think it was consistently giving about which was quite stable. I think, the reason is that the value for Value was independent of a musical darkness. And that's it, right? So, it was connected to, to the economic benefits and working like in and, of course, Athens and the other on the phone. So I can either type environment so that you'll find can give you something. But that doesn't last and I think even though he

has great value from one place to another. So it's Australia from from where it is created which could be completely independent. Are you suggesting then that it was assuming that that model is sort of sustainable? Are you suggesting that? It can be replicated across numerous projects such that they create a synthetic version of their token that is stable to. It's a man That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying is that if some project benefits from good liquidity and if the value of a

project produces is different from the value of confused, by the by actually provided a summary about your farming could become but in your model, if they don't have a stable version or synthetic version of their token that they're asking users to provide than the lp still would be exposed to a cup. If it's not benefiting from my be like if one project provides one sort of value and other project producers and other stores and benefit from that value and then of a gift like a

mutually beneficial relationship between two projects. It seems like most of the tokens that all the Ninja Turtles that are being given out as a form of subsidies. That you mentioned, the only function that there is is the government function. What can, what can be the other expected use cases and value-add and economic value at daddy? So good can bring Yeah. Well, of course, we had some good government's proposals, which we are to implement, which is connecting the value, January, 4th to the value of

a token. Is it to like 3% is the total fees but of which 42.25% goes to the liquid liquidity providers, and .05 the saying goes to chokin. Kind of, I kind of like that. And there they can be different place called ghosts. OK, Google, go to participate. In government could be some sort of hybrid one way. And another way is that actually government depends on how it could potentially potentially bringing value boring proposals. That probably would be bought if

If you have with a mouthful competing parties, trying to fool the system and bear favor, using the tokens, might be about 10 minutes from Marcus competition between them. And she did something. I'm quite worried about because if you look at who are the sweetest they usually will or soon, I think you have multiple different food while you pull, all the government still comes together on Government powers to get it. Then it's not it's not any different from traditional finance that we have to

date all the ETS and all these folding towels and governments are given to these big asset manager companies or as a management company and they're building on behalf of everyone. At the end of the day, Everything that we're doing is not about decentralizing power. Any other days too, goes back to the power being Consolidated in coordinated by specific parties in the system, and we don't have any decent lice problems at all. We just go back to the old system in an efficient manner that

mean, participating in government, unless they have really strong opinions. And yeah, the voices of them will be Let me get a vehicle for parts of delegate their followers to someone else and they both on the car. So maybe and maybe a bit, the delegation would actually be actually be at Solutions but then it kind of shifts more like two words alike in like a Are you even hold it to represent your bold and they maybe don't manage your money, but those should be some value.

It's ripe for innovation, in terms of counteracting and consolidation of powers that we can really use time more effectively such that if you are agreeing to be a service provider in the protocol, for a certain amount of time, if you had your quiddity locked in a certain amount of time, you're sort of accruing. Accruing voting power somehow. So that is at school at our disposal to use time to counteract the powers you can get just from sure-loc and liquidity backpack. So I decided to not do that because if there are problems with the protocol is that you would need to be able to unlock the

community. and, like, I'm done working or what? Like if it's locked in, there is a vulnerability and you cannot unlock you, you will be like quadratic voting but instead of the amount of tokens that is being done in a quadratic version is a weighted like with time being to your time will be coordinating. Yeah. I mean, but your reward at the end of the tunnel is Wurzbach, we are kind of weird week having some functions which the government stalking us depart from government which is

boosting the production of Domino's stock and pretty much and also occur. When there is a distributed to those who lost the weight with you yet in voting is proportional. The longtime so. Well, the longer you walk, the higher are voting power. You and basically comes down to people who are have a long-term vested interest in the platform. They are the one who has the highest voting power and so far. It looks like when we working It looks. It looks like it looks like it works, but at least

I did see some instances of short-term speculators have in the union and long-term cold and a basically turn involved into into their favor. Where is the speculators with one Pokemon volt? It would be I said we're rolling out governance on there and I think it's important for us that in order to generate and I think this might be the same incurred in order to generate the governance token, you must be a user of the system, right? So you must use your pool tokens to generate the government's token actually in our upcoming model.

So really aligning and ensuring that your LPS are the governance token holders in participants I think is quite key made, right? Forgotten. Yeah. So my are staying on about governess is that the very hard problem to solve and we want to focus on what our core is. So we're course we're really thinking a lot about governance but we we we don't rush Too Fast Too Soon into pool Unchained governance like make her how did which in my opinion slow them down a little bit

so I think we're taking a more conservative approach towards governance and snapshots and it's a tool that a lot of people using. So I think even know where conservative we, we're kind of Yeah, trippin a lot of space so that that idea of not going on chain his wife and also the highest gas prices is what motivated us to create snapshots so you can both just by signing with your private key without any, any, any and read a lot of people using that. And now we're talkin to Aragon to. Maybe she kind of

how the results of snapshots. Gasless votes can be programmatically automatically trust Leslie, implemented on chain. So it's pretty precise but it's really not are, are focusing try to to keep like a hundred percent focused on our goals? So you're taking the special voting rights and turning them into the actual voting & Company. Host, of course, we'll, we'll get you a decent gas automatically implemented or cast like, like maker called in what today is its it semi decentralized

without using any gas. So, it's pretty signal voting voting and, and that it gets implemented by the most just a testing boat to get, for me as an individual to get an understanding of what their Community is. And then, the prophet vote is where I ended the information that I received from the entire community. And then I can change my voice. The item. All aligned are misaligned with the community. There's two proposals, and there's about those. We are still kind of working

out how much Quorum you need for a proposal to become a real actual vote to look at polka dots governance. I think it's a very nice example and what a lot of projects are doing. So there's like those two stages promoted to a vote and then I think that's that's what you're saying. So yeah, that only confirms what I'm saying or not are our Core Business. Like it is for Aragon, for example. So we're partnering with them to make sure that snapshot gets this kind of extra

functionality of implementing the station to go. Now it's been amazing. I don't know if you want to stay. That's fine. I don't do it. Yeah. So I went up. So take your bike for you guys. What would it be? Wow. Michael, I guess I would the device to too many being not only exist in project, because this doesn't bring too much while you bought to bring something with you. I mean, if it's possible, I think, I think it's beef stew to succeed. Yeah, yeah, I'm out. I guess I would agree with that. I'm continually shocked by all these new, the new swap

everyday, with paired with a different name of the food barbecue sauce called barbecue corn. I mean, when you choose to do that it's really a short-term thing where your aunt and is more likely to just kind of be forgotten with. You're just kind of changing something about the tokenomics as a token distribution or even with my generation of cease, this is kind of off topic, but I'm I'll be curious to see with governance tokens. When you start to turn on fees for like a governance, token something in them. You don't all the sudden that means a

hundred percent of your fees are no longer going to your LPS. So they're going to a treasury that's going to your phone holder. So this is kind of cause and effect where, you know, Prince interview anywhere to turn on their their protocol. See what happens to their LT is when they're suddenly making less money where your make a hundred percent, your fees innovate on the underlying structure of the amm acknowledge that with all the hype and Euphoria. There is about and I'm right now. There are still some pretty large problems that a

lot of them are being nasty right now that are not being solved and if you can come with a good solution, then I think that will be way more impactful than a very interesting or not. Airdrop or protocol and sent him out of the order cocaine distribution. If you could really saw some of these underlying issues, a really not paying so much to arbitrageurs stuff like that. Then then I think that the market which this protocol is addressing and the you are trying to compete with Japan with using its own,

which is I think of, I think it's probably could be doomed to fail or to be honest and we have Foreign Exchange Market which is a trillion-dollar market retired. I like to talk to you tomorrow. I think all those today, it all happens in in life are unlike traditional exchanges with order books and everything. I think it is quite possible that a man can conquer those market and have all of that happening in a map and the bathroom git. Used only by like a potentially like me, you

deserve those markets yet so there should be something really in you. Thank you so much. Do you guys have anything else yet? Learn. Version specific questions. This is Michael. What tools are there for not Court Savvy, investors to read a smart contract and discover the pit bulls and dangerous. Yeah I mean sexually. Just call her those dangers, they probably would be able to view. I know. I think I think the battery is still humans like that. I don't think there are good ways to catch something which are using optimized

automatic user-friendly. 222 there to your aunt's and then they deliver the report using both of those sometimes. Yeah, I would say that even even the tasks you can do in Port of like a test environment before the protocol is on Shane. Are you hope that they're good? And they will be good but you often learn that the market is so wild right now that there's a lot of stuff you can't simulate before you're in a before your introduction. So really, the best way is to not be Reckless

when a project first comes out and dumped a whole bunch of money in a smart contract, based on what they're saying, but to really connect with the community Through telegram or Discord and put in maybe a little bit of money that you can afford to lose and then talk to the other people and say, what, what are you saying are you seeing if worth last more increase? What type of market conditions are? We exploring them in. So, even for the folks that, and I think Michael is ripe, A lot of developers can spot these issues early and it will get surfaced in the telegram Channel and

in their Community, but a lot of it is also try on an error and, and I think it requires a lot of communication from the sort of test bunnies. The test LPS in the first days is when a man has rolled out to really compare notes. And understand if what the Anna is it is not actually doing what their protocol designers hoped it would do. How many people are actually sticking that, that sticking it, because the multiple sticking his, you know, that it's less risky. Because there is risk loss in about or less risky enough to stick so much and

accepted that it was trying that protocol. At least that's a good place to get. Started is not fully bought out. It's a good idea to buy one. But make sure you're looking on a long enough time Horizon to write. Because if I'm looking, if a protocol announces, hey, we're doing an airdrop or a protocol incentives for, you know, the next week, you look over the next week though, there's hundreds of millions of liquidity. I must be safe, then, you know, I'm not sure if that's a good measure even though it on my Nexus. So

keep an eye on that is really understanding before or been involved in how long that's going to last. Do your research and ask questions. Really, really appreciate you being on here and spend time here and thank you. I appreciate the Care by hatem. Right. Next up, we have Robert charette from disc golf in as a And can I get Robert? I'm bored. So, by the way, I'm going to answer the questions right now in the other question pot out later. After this entire thing,

It's Robert here. While waiting for Roberts. I'm just going to introduce Robert Frost and then we'll wait until I can also the other questions interest-bearing accounts on chain with higher rates than the bank, the farm is regulated and bathing suits and is opening an office in Singapore about how traditional Finance is doubt to decentralized finance because decentralized Finance is a lot more efficient, which is whatever we're talking about here. I think it's not online yet but

let me answer the questions. So there's one near you guys decide which protocol to walk with. I think from what Fernando has said is that every protocol has a specialization right then you partner with other people with the other type of special specialization and I guess that's kind of one of the reasons why chain link is so popular because she is one of those that does oracle's the end. Gates different kind of information from different places on on channel chain so that helps a lot with the special edition and big known from

that perspective. The question here that has 12 volts Define you be here? I understand how it could be providers. Can an interest by sticking their latent? I don't understand how a gorilla makes anything especially considering that he has overcome. I tried to slow and by providing more collateral that was his ball, right? Someone explain this part because this is too for letting a boring for the calls. What we talked about today was more of a m, a m, a m m, a decentralized exchange. But how does a borrower

get benefits from? It is very simple. Because there's not a lot of days in a lot of let's say you have died tokens and you don't want to be selling your diet Oakland You have your bike wasn't going to be selling a title. Comes to get, I don't know. What compounds are those all balance? It's okay. So you want to be lending it and I'm borrowing it boring and it's going to use it for a while, probably going to use it to be doing some the crudity. Mining ore used for me for twenty days or 1 week and you know what to be smiling and doing all

that stuff. So, I think Robert is on board. Is he here? Is done. and, So far for token holders and investors about the future expectation of the projects. As you hurt just now thank car is doing a v 2.1 in the next few days to do with that. 08, Robert Is Here. I'm just going to get robbed on BART and he can share. He can start sharing his stuff, the Robert was in Robert. We talking about how decentralized finance will accept my finance. And it's very interesting and then I'll

answer your questions off today. No, it's kind of technical issues. Robert, you have to accept the invite. And then Debbie McEwen a. So just put your questions in other question, segment of everything that you want to know about. Centralized finance. And she said she was fine and everything. It's Robert. How are you share my presentation? Grabill Des, can you? Yes, you could see it. Okay, great. Well thanks everybody for joining. So I'm excited to talk about how Defy is disrupting traditional

Finance. I can as you can guess from my tie. I come from traditional Finance myself and I'm a real believer in defy, I think it will. I think it will completely change the way traditional Finance works. So let me take you through a little presentation on how I think defy will discrepancy fine. So the short answer in terms of what is it doing today? To disrupt sephi is not very much. Does that those of us in the sector, of course, are really enthusiastic about the rapid buildup out of defy, but in the traditional world, it's it isn't having a huge effect when

you look at the numbers. So if you compare it in terms of trillions of dollars mobile Financial assets, you can see see fire on the left at which makes up you know 99.9% of all assets and the small growth of defy. But the growth has been, the growth has been fantastic. And I think what you see which is even more important, is you see that it's really on the radar screen of a lot of people and see if you see the government's talking about it, you see exchanges, developing you see Banks, you know, very Concerned about a superior technology. So,

my view is, this is where we will be in 10 years. So, if you look at it, I think they defy will take almost 20% 1/5 of Global Financial assets. I think that would be mainly driven by huge numbers of debt and money markets that are tokenized. I think you will see the development of areas that don't exist at the moment because what currently exists in defy, of course, is all the things that is the easiest to do the lowest hanging fruit on chain. So it's things that are over collateralized. It's you know, it's

crypto to crypto and I think what you will see you in terms of an enormous development will be things like Bank deposits. I think that has secured insured, a bank deposit on chain will arrive and I think that will completely disrupt the banking Market. I think he will see build out of things like that products. I think that money markets will be one of the biggest gainers. And so, our view is this, that and defy will grow almost at 250 x from what it is today, but even that, it will be quite small compared and to see if

I and who will leave this defy Uprising, it's going to be a strange combination. I think, I think it's going to be a combination of Savers because essentially there has been zeroing in the world since the 2008 financial crisis and these Savers essentially are a range of people, there's individuals and institutions. It's as broad as, you know, family offices. Small private Banks here in Switzerland, its asset managers in the major Financial Centers. And of course, it's individuals who are looking for a year old. And then the

other key driver of it, I think will be people who feel like they've been left out by mainstream Finance. So it's people who have a feeling of inequality, people who feel that they're not. Well, served essential that, they don't get very much value from C5 from traditional Finance, people who don't like their Banks, which is, I've narrowed it down to 99% of people in the world. So, Early days, where it was. Essentially the bitcoiners are, you know, an unbelievable group, who created this, who created this structure to make, to make

defy possible. And it's almost like a bit of a religious movement in the sense that it had its own language and had its own feeling of group identity. And I think what you're going to see what I think is great, by the way. But I think what you're going to see over time to channel and Retail Savers is that the importance of the technology and the importance of the original fervent, theology will be left behind a little bit, which I think is a good thing. I think it will develop into one of the benefits for me because that's what people want to, you know, want to hear about it when the adults

something, you know, it when you don't, you know, in the early days of the internet, you had all these questions about how packets for a transfer to online, whether people would use their credit card online. And now people don't even think of that they just simply watch Netflix, or they buy, and they stopped on Amazon. Don't think of the underlying technology and the same thing will evolve over the next decade for defy. Savers are going to ask themselves. So there's two groups Savers. And basically the pissed-off 99% are going to ask the Sabres will ask where did my yield go?

And so you'll just disappeared. Essentially in the developed World negative rates in Europe. The UK Japan here in Switzerland, you pay 75 basis points a year to have your money in the bank, which is, which is really irritating and 9% will say where did my dreams go? Because if you actually overlay, the growing size of the financial sector in most developed economies, it negatively correlated with the decline in middle-class incomes. So if you look at, who is capturing a lot of

value in developed markets, will part of it is caused by a shift of globalization, but a large part is captured by the financial sector. And I think it's, I think many people will argue What the financial sector gives to them and why they should be taking such a large piece of the economy. So looking at her Define will also be incredibly important business. The broken Central Bank policy that exist in the world today and you can see it by when there's a, you know, it's a misunderstanding essentially of what money is and what bank, you know,

money is just a symbol. It's a representation of purchasing power and banks are, you know, active participants in the economy. That take a large part of the economy. They're not simply facilitating matching savings with them productive uses, and you can see that by looking at historical crises. So if you look at the tech boss after the year, 2001 financial crisis, from the year, 2008 loss of monetary stimulus, money occurred with the idea that that would Stimulate the economy, but if you look at it bank loans, as a

bank loans, did not increase the decrease after that, because Banks act like you. And I do, if the future is uncertain and you've made a big bet on the future, which is what they Jeep on making loans. You know you're much more conservative. If you're messed up that you much less likely to expand your, you know, balance sheet and, you know, increase productivity in the real economy and the same thing I think will happen. So our forecast, you can see in the bottom right. Is that based on the great financial crisis that you will see a decline in Bank lending and you see that you see that

fairly today. First principles, part of the issue is that is very well outside of the crypto Community. People don't stop and think about money very much into my own story was interesting. I was a young Banker in Russia. Doing Emerging Markets, you know, Investment Banking in the at the end of the 1990s and we were making loans. To some Russian companies. I work for a multinational Investment Bank and I was very young and working in the Moscow office just for a bit and you know, we would make a loan to a company, and I would be like what where does

money come from, because in our subsidiary, in Russia, we we didn't have the money there and you know, I mean, I remember asking lots of people, you know, does it come from? Do we send it from London? Does it get transferred through the Russian Central Bank to, you know, somebody show up in a plane with the money. Where does it come from in you? No money comes from essentially making loans. So you make a, you make a loan to a company and then you create a deposit account to a new crate credit against it. So the problem with the fractional Reserve banking industry, isn't that it's diametrically

opposed to the principles of defy, the principles of crypto because essentially it's a double spending, which as you all know, probably in be fine and crypto isn't possible. And so, by understanding money, and banking better and buy essential If I am replacing Spotify, in many of these things, I think you'll see a more equitable distribution of wealth, and I think you'll see a reduction in the variance of the economic cycle. So, And then, you know, you know, if I See Fire is predicated on inflation, why? Because the

largest boar was in the world are sephi and governments. So inflation is good for them because they have to pay back their money in future money that has less purchasing power. So it's worthless. So inflation is really good if you happen to be a bank of the government's, or if you're part of the 1%, very close to the centers of power. It's bad for Savers. So if you're like the rest of us for a typical middle-class person trying to save for the future inflation eats away at your savings and it's particularly bad for the poor because inflation you know people who don't have access to

you no assets that might increase with inflation like a house or a stock portfolio is incredibly bad for them. So our view of the future in terms of devices that it would be very good for Savers and be very good for the poor SS, good for government Banks. Because it just like a lot of Technology adoption, you know, Defy is about abundance, you know, the marginal production cost of financial instruments under Defy is almost zero. It's just like, publishing something online, it doesn't cost very much today. So those deflationary factors would be very important in driving

the development of defy. So in summary, I think it's a 10x better. Technology is 10x better for society. I think that what you'll see is I think that will drive the adoption, I think it's awesome. We driven by essentially the value that it gives two people and are better human values. I think there's some things we have to keep in mind in this kind of exuberant early days of Defy. Is that the laws of reality of finance and don't change if you just put something on chain, the

finances, fundamentally about risk and return. So you know, a food token offering a thousand percent apy probably isn't going to replace the average bank account. So you know, the thing that defy really needs for adoption, as I put in my adoption curve earlier, is it needs? It needs a better time to the real economy once the ties to the real economy. Come Bridges to the real economy Bridges between sephi and defy. I think that you will see adoption just explode. So here's a skeet V, financing work. Specially you sell something, a good or service. If somebody else wants to buy and that

comes into the company, on the left hand side, which is the operations. And then, on the right hand side is essentially. See if I thinks about the claims on the value of the company. So that goes from, at the top in debt to the bottom and shares investment, banker is being, you know, relatively ingenious up, come up with a whole bunch of different. Categories for how a firm should be financed, but if you look on this next slide here. So defy finances companies have the same idea. You sell something, you get him some cash from you. No, listen to everything comes from the invoice, everything

comes from the contract, but then after that, you can just have a, you can think of it in digital terms, not analog terms. And not the arbitrary categories that were created. Essentially by, you know, financial institutions, you can Finance us, I've got here from 8 is that, you know, if it can be granular to visit border that you can Finance from the first dollar or Bitcoin that comes into a company added to the last one. And it just simply goes from the lowest risk to the highest risk and that can be priced in a very different way, which I'll get to, and we talked

about. So conization, so, here is my disruption checklist for defy. It has to have a benefit to a user here in Switzerland. W-where regulated company and we offer insured deposit accounts on chain. We offer 3% in US Dollars of developing and stablecoins and its insured insurance for the Lloyd's Market in London. So you know, the benefit to a user, whether you are a traditional guy or whether you're a crypto guy, is this, that is risk and return. So you got the same risk as the bank but you got a much higher return and its insured.

And it's only possible by using blockchain technology. So we need to focus much more. I think I'm one of the really simple benefits to end users and then there's human psychology, which we often leave out, because we're so text focused, but people, you know, it's their money. So there's that there's a, there's an instinctual concern about where you put your money and, you know, we need to address the psychology of it, which is people need to feel that their money is safe, and is looked after, and I think that, even though, you know, we may not all perfectly love it. I think that would

lead to an increased need for regulation whether it's self regulation or government needs to be tied to the real economy needs to be integrated with traditional financing to be an easy bridge and then you know, it needs to offer a very clear solution. Disruption is inevitable. Robert. Sorry about the structure and I have to just drop your presentation for a bit because we're running out of time. And is it okay if I do one minute of quick run-through? And then answer one question. Yes, for sure. I'm happy to do that.

So, I would say that, some tokenization tokenization is something that will inevitably lead to destruction of the better risk-return possibility for investors for users and it's a much more efficient system so I can put my slides available and people can look at them afterwards. If they want you seem to have a couple is that right? And when do you think that will happen? You know what do you think of Bitcoin for example its systems? It comes down to scarcity, I mean there's 21 million Bitcoin, it's a fixed Supply, it will have

value as collateral to preserve your savings, preserve your wealth and the US dollar will continue to decline. That United States dollar has declined 96.3% since the Federal Reserve. was established in 2013, 14 to establish price stability, so that decline will just continue Okay, thank you so much. Roblox, do you want to summarize anything? Otherwise I would say that my predictions for the next decade are here in a sense that I can to defy adoption will jump 30% to 30%. And I think the Bitcoin will

also increase significantly. I think you should expect to see if I will increasingly fear define and will you know be expected to fight back. I will be by Right next. Next up, we have we have Nicholas. From. A Moogle. And because of the CTO of a miracle, a blockchain, a global blockchain Solutions company, and a founding editor of cardano, in addition to the CEO of brand mock a traceability to do traceability solution working on some of Israel's largest Enterprises CEO and co-founder

of a software development Solutions and worked with multiple companies in Silicon Valley. He also holds a position as council member of the cardinal fondation. Do you want to share your slides? Or do you want to just chat? But I would like to share one second screen. when I go to talk about defy in Perdido or Define Cardinals play, can you see my screen? So, my name is Niko kiddos and the City of Pomona go and talk to you about defying clan of day to take. So

what so, what is a third-generation block change at 6 to deliver more advanced features that any of the protocol previously developed. So, I basically was going to caps Acres, smart contract sustainability through the centralized government. Also, we already got proof of stake, which is automotive and also, we are implementing, its scalability Solutions. So we can build apps that can scale up to Minnesota. Battery percentage is going to be a specific about you, dig sir. And the last thing

I wanted to mention about 3 or 10:00 which is like a non-profit entity based in Switzerland that works with regulators and the community input output, a girl like Searchers developers and actually the ones in charge of developing the critical. And also there's a thorough going to say to go in the city and we are most working. Will I companies and I'll bring you some specific use cases to the platform. This is going to be a little bit technical but not too late. I just want to showcase a Vicodin is like a bitter better. Sometimes to be

better. You need to do something really different and I want to explain this specific difference. So what is extended utxo? So we have to share about you think so because exactly, they're symbol that she should be good on other blocks and use a different one. Account. I got them all. This is really interesting because for example, Bitcoin Works more as a cashier in the supermarket. So for example, if you want to buy something that $0.95, maybe you pay with $1 and they're going to give you change so that I want to give you a clean bag. That's for $0.05.

They work more like a bank account. So if you need to pay like $0.95. Yes, jumping night. If I sent in fact, it sounds more simple but everything out the trailer and I send a picture of a stance that are incurred. I know we grabbed you take some water from Beacon and weight standards. We can support is my contacts. Why like everything seems to be working fine with you know that the truth is that we extended you take some or we can come more Define approach on for the West that goes you know that usually went to avoid estate and you have a fat reproach eyes like better, programming language and

it's like less problem to buy some steaks and some many other things. Also, music survey smart contract. I like Bittersweet or scared of a Little Teapot by Abbey Glover State and also for cheerleading, which seems like it's the way the most of us are going to be scaling music. Service is my contacts are better for that because I told me they can be nice like the same way as a computer work. When you have like multiple course in your computer and you send the French writer to Beacon coffee into computer. So you think so it's like a little

bit more like And basically everything works. We'd like to stay in my chest which is like pretty simple and pretty clean. So for developing smart, contracts and information and Coast, like the personal States or a big difference. You Selena Tea Room, smart contracts. This bike is going to be cold in Old State for everything. But he said, I believe the exhaust closed, most of the difference and to iTunes music so I can like a change. Are you working to create a New Year's Eve show?

And this allows to ask are, you can see in the screen, some very basic moles of the state machine where you can be changing between different states and you can go back to the playlist, a paper that's really good. You can do this we liked to have seen a few sips at the same time so it can be cold in different states in a really clean Way for their Developers. And basically what is the information that the you tricks a host? So that you think so, I can't recall at the tokens that are the user touch

with basically is the hatch of a small country because I think they're going to be another store in the sparkling text on change, but actually we are as my contacts, our store of change. But we believe this, my contacts Pico staining to catch needs to match the one that was abusing their, you think so? Also, for last Adidas speed dating which is like the information that story on chain, but we always try to minimize. These are to divert mean So what is required to do at the site. So we will need like the input of the Utica. Social, you want to use a similar to Beethoven. We also going to

need them, which is what I meant to say, actually, smart contract, as we're going to need any more sleep, which basically are like the input. So for example, if you want to interact with a day during this trip is going to be like how much you want to exchange that sub tokens and for which token do you want to change? And also the slow train which basically means that the Network's congested or if you want something to happen in the future you can specify a slope, right? So something could happen in the future

And basically, this is like them both that would send you pictures, but I like the specific programming language that we interpret. The land is called Pluto and Pluto. Switch off light pieces that run on Chene and run off and but everything is available for some of you. Maybe you could share that about Costco and he's like really good laugh at your programming language. And we were able to develop I please text with horse on top of Castle and this is actually works on chin and on the very bottom are you can see a little bit of how it looks like. And again I

would like to space out there really cool thing about this is that we work with the state, my chin. So wake up to your teacher in the state and also is a functional programming language, which is going to help us with everything related to Geist in. Verifying that is my contact actually do what they're supposed to. Are we know that that to be a little bit like a scary song so we can find a solution which are for the one. So maybe they don't want to go to Africa and the solution is core which is administered. In other words

is like instead of being able to build anything that you want, it's like a little bit more later but I spit Eliza Symphony Financial smart contracts and everything that has been done with actors. Soft skills. You can do on your mother looks like a little bit more like this. So you can see your vehicle looks like with cases but even that sometimes just know that fella. So you also can use a decree. So it's like pretty nice because I tell you can put like plug to playlist, my country. And they're really nice thing

here. Is that even come static analysis Go to help you automatically telling you what things could be wrong. If you were feeling some things that maybe the Colts going to be able to reach out to that part of because of a simple. If you are juicing vegetables that I can use them again pretty nice. And you can actually play something that at least you're in just less than an hour. So it's like West Mason and I wanted to give it to her because mostly want to answer questions. And if you want

to know more about coronavirus, highly recommend you to go to calendar. For more information. Awesome, thank you so much. So Let me ask some questions that is over here, can't work with any other articles or any articles. So right now, we're working with different Oracle provider. As I mentioned the way that these two you think so. So in order specific case you need to be able to spend on you take so to confirm it. So sometimes circles will have to create like multiple users but I we can work with like most like the oracles are there. I think

it's a different type of tacos. Coinbase. We have signed data so you actually do need like a more of like a anniversary. So like for example chain link to like information from coinbase because they're already given you like information that side. So you can verify that already with smart contracts in Carolina and this is like wide is because you can stay in formation and cheaper. Because right now something that we see in Atrium, is that a gas station at super-high. So that's why we are like doing

some things on Chene and all the things change. So, we can speed up the process and also make it cheaper. That's a very good jump to the next question, is that I was under the impression that card I know it's a nice kilo and guess he is a big problem. Now, how do cardinals tap on this opportunity? That's like a nice interacting for the question. So basically I wear more stuff like they are necessary operations in the chicken also. Mention, for example,

I want to be having to interact with that, many smart speakers. Also says, what you can do is like 35. After information was actually signed by so many specific like driving out to the usage of it public. And also, because we are like working with the scalability solutions that are like using charging, which is also on what are the proteins are aiming to use in place of all things. Working in that. Grand Daddy Kush, Travis that they still have a mole that uses like Louisville state. So it's going to be like, pretty

tricky to grab something that centralized, but running like multiple offense. But I do. And that's why did you take so way of his parking place? It's really interesting because of something that's parallelizable to charge also, to be paralyzed about in this market. A clever device quite distribution. If I have 12 different segments, what do you think? Is the biggest beef I use case? Where you at? U s t, o u t s o is the most value at the venue to that sector in Define?

Are you doing, what's a proof-of-concept? Bad as we are building a tested like new scan ways to utilize this technology, we'd realize that sometimes it's not like you to know. So in Cuz I know you think so, doesn't limit the application to you after you take. So it's like a better way to play nice with other technologies that which he had required Opera built into a scale app. And personally, I feel like everything that's mostly related, not so much through the current usage of defy. But actually, I

like, what I can see in like a second-level which is for like a banking damn bank and I also have fully Bank to set my bank and about right now that's like pretty tricky because if we're going to be using a stable, don't like die. And you want to book from dollars to die. I want to be. But you like, 12%, just to buy died. So it's like don't actually practical for people. So there's a lot of light different colors that we need to solve a saint in the street. So people can like jump on Chene and often quite easily and without spending money because I am done

If people don't have it that much extra money to like spending in blackface, that's exactly what they're trying to avoid. A question, a personal view of you is defy a bubble. So I think like Stanley, most of the technology is sometimes they still like I can relate to court and they turn to a battle. That for example, I will keep the Bible in to mm about like all the tech companies but then we saw that Amazon was a Bible and that point, yes, I definitely wasn't even there their body

on the price, in the stock markets, like in a hired thug bubble. So it depends where you are sometimes being like, really hot quite easily that. I think in the long term, we definitely are going to be green. A lot of lollies. Awesome. One last question. Will Cardona launch their version of just swap or juice. And what do you think of conflict? So I should have first part of the difficult part. Was that what I think about? Which I don't know much about how to be honest. I know that Justin is like a huge personality and that's

super interesting. I don't know much about that about, like what we want to have something like, some women to come. Like it's just soap, Oh yes WAP oh I don't know just swab if it's like a decentralised I change that using any of them which is like a ultimatum might make it a different way. I want to come after you and come down and we having multiple organizations, I work in multiple multiple. So I tell if you can multiple texts, then you don't like texting to you later. So you can expect to see most of the same application. Do you say anything. You

think? I don't know, but they want to be built in a different way. The same companies that are looking to expand to Solutions. Or are they continue companies? So that's a really good question. So exactly like a mix of company. So it was a fair amount of companies are like this. Huge flock, only the gospel, you send the Active Solutions cannot be used tonight. I'll do they believe so, but they're always like actually looking for making the product or so. Looking at Alternatives, we

already have a pretty fair amount of support in Carolina. If I fall, I am a project wanting to know, what can I do? So you have like multiple ways to interact with Carolina sofa Temple right now? I wish you can go to a movie go to support his license. I'll see you can go for a gram from take a Xanax and agent, and the entire thing about different topics where you can get a gram or actually you can get a gram from the community of right now. There's some

pretty cool three Catalyst at the closing, two more days and it's giving away. I interrupt like up to $250,000 and this is like all the people that you need to address on 41st. Latest one is like the community. So for that ass is super important sustainability and we do this to like multiple of jail. So I applied for some reason you're like tomorrow or even if you are so like that you can go directly to the community for support and I believe they can give you a discount like the Treasury System. Sounds good. Thank you so much

nickel. Temple. Everyone else that you. Thank you so much for joining us. I think I've answered Mall as the questions. I was just completely date them and put them on to do to be answering them moving on. So just give me a summary of what what snake what we do. We do education. If you do research by economic recession, we do Consulting on developing all these kind of cool economic systems, that's what we do. And if you're interested in Mall of this kind of weapons, you

can continue to follow block like Asia because they're going to continue developing Revenant is going to come very soon. So Twitter and figure out what's and follow them on horses and a lot of other online, research stuff and education stuff if you want to learn more and I really really want to thank you because that's it's that has been absolutely amazing and you really appreciate your time staying with us for two hours. Thank you so much and thank you for asking all the questions. If anything else on YouTube

or emails and what about the social channels that we have? Thank you so much.

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