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PGConf India 2020 - The future of Postgres in a multi-cloud world - Marc Linster - EDB

Marc Linster
Chief Technology Officer at EDB
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PGConf India, 2020
February 28, 2020, Bengaluru, India
PGConf India, 2020
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PGConf India 2020 - The future of Postgres in a multi-cloud world - Marc Linster - EDB
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About speaker

Marc Linster
Chief Technology Officer at EDB

Marc Linster, Ph.D., is EDB’s Senior Vice President of Product Development and leads EDB’s engineering divisions and product development groups.Marc is committed to EDB being an accelerator to providing architectural “know how” to help customers take advantage of Postgres without significant risk and cost. Marc believes that although new customer adoption of open source is easier than the experience of purchasing proprietary options, tools are still incredibly important, and EDB’s professional services practices provides them.Marc has an extensive background in engineering, technology and logistics with 20 years of management experience. Before joining EDB, Marc spent four years at Polycom, the leading maker of video communications equipment, where most recently he was a Senior Director, Engineering for Cloud and Hosted Solutions. Before Polycom, Marc was Co-founder and President of TriPoint Interactive, a global supply chain consulting and systems integration company. He spent six years at Avicon Group, first as CTO and then as Vice President of Operations. Marc is an avid equestrian.Marc holds a Ph.D. (Dr. rer. nat) in Computer Sciences from the University of Kaiserslautern in Germany."

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About the talk

Postgres has won the race. It is the undisputed leader of relational databases for new and modern applications. This presentation will reflect on how customers take advantage of this new situation, how they deal with the complexity, and how they take advantage of Postgres as the universal data platform that is available in containers, in every cloud, in every data centre and on every developer laptop

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Okay, can I go to hear me to work? Yes. Okay, we're good. Okay. Alright, thanks for. Thanks for coming this morning. So I did change yesterday evening, the title of the slides for the presentation a little bit because based on everything that I heard yesterday and some reading that I have done and interviews, there's a lot of interest in a developer perspective to take a little bit more of a developer's perspective on on the multi Cloud opportunity for for postgres. So,

Okay. Alright, this is me already heard about that so we can, we can skip that. I'm not going to spend any time talking about enterprisedb. There's a number of people from enterprise-e be in the room if you're curious about what we do and how we do it and who we are, you can ask any of my any of my colleagues were here. Let me dive into. It's the same challenge that we had yesterday, okay? So let's talk a little bit about how developers work with databases. We all know today, developer split play

a much more significant role in the database selection than in the past in the past database election was often something that came down from corporate architecture, it was free to find. It was a lot less flexibility today. Many companies have a catalog of possible databases that can be chosen and we see a lot of situations where developers should I go Rogue? And they choose, whatever is best for the job that needs to be done. So looked a little bit, you know, how do developers make this Choice? Obviously the very first thing that they're going to look for is the capabilities

that they want in the database capabilities. That means text search GIS transactional. Do I need to store documents All that kind of stuff. So this would be the key capabilities That I Want from from my data store. The next thing would be is the underlying platform innovative. And you may think. Why does that matter? Well, it matters a whole lot because the worst thing you can do as a developer, or an architect, is choose a dying platform, your application, the work that you going to invest in it for the next couple of years,

it's going to turn into a zombie and there's quite a few of those zombies out in corporate Lane where somebody chose a technology that had no future. Okay. And that's I think is very, very important when developers choose a technology make sure its innovative and it's going to be around for the long run. And many of us have forgotten that in the past leading databases will release new versions every four to five years. Every year we used to that, to the rapid pace of innovation that we take it for granted, but that's not necessarily true.

So, developers look for Innovative things that they can use to do new and fun things and things that move forward. I just need to support a Child Development, right? So so that's, that's, that's a given when it went into something and then vendor lock-in vendor lock-in has always been a huge issue and still is a huge issue where did it again? Yesterday when Simon was talking about Chase on base again that's it that remains the biggest you okay and I think it's something that we all need to absolutely have to keep in mind and I believe where we are

today with post stress gives us a fantastic opportunity to avoid vendor lock-in. Without a lot of the drawback and I'll get it to that into quite a bit of detail. And then obviously it has to be fast and manageable, okay? And we'll talk about that a little bit. Why. Has changed the today in Pokhara? Okay, so the one thing that we all know is open source is eating the world, the softer World K, I mean in the survey there's 1% of companies who say they said last year, open source is not at all important. I don't know who they are there. Probably not

there anymore. Okay, this is the same thing that happened with the next and eunuchs 15 years ago at that point in time. Everybody says, oh my God, oh my God, I'm going to get fired if I get on Linux well today. If so today, you know, that all of those that didn't get them, then it got fired, okay? Today a lot of work, I'll get fired. Well, maybe I should be exact Play round. Okay, get on something Innovative and and start using open-source. And you can see here that that basically 89%

of all companies said, open source is important. So, going forward here. Post Office, Las Cruces extremely popular, we heard that yesterday, we all know it okay, if my sequel still plays a very large role but postgres is really rapidly coming and what's very important about postgres today? Postgres is available everywhere. Now, I probably forget a couple of things here. I already looked at it this morning and I remember that I forgot Ali. Baba, for example, Alibaba run, postgres in their Cloud, but basically, the message. You can

do postgres everywhere. There's not a single platform that I am aware of where you cannot run postgres. That in itself is already a very, very big thing to remember when you were developer and you were concerned about lock-in, you are not only concerned about, do I need to pay money for this vendor. It's also cannot deploy wherever I want. And with postgres, you can actually do that. There's a lot of commercial databases that still do not encourage you to deploy on kubernetes today. If you can just do it, if you feel these kisses, right do it.

Another key trends and this is something that's near and dear to my heart. We are talking so much about cloud and there's no good definition about Cloud people. Talk about Cloud that they do a lot of arm-waving and nobody really understands what cloud is or isn't. So I went to the website of the US National Institute of Standards and I'm sure I have something comparable. And there you can see. If he's done the US Standard that a cloud is something that is on demand, self-service, Rob network access. Pools at resources is

meter and is rapidly. Elastic. Scratch your head and say, hey, why can't I do that in my data center? I have VMware vsphere, I have ansible, I can do all of that. And most of our customers today. Do all of that and they do all of that almost everywhere. Ya don't do it on your Mac. Don't do it on your windows workstation. But for the rest, you can do this everywhere. So the whole notion that cloud is something special that cloud. Only happens on Amazon or on a dresser or something, I might use pure nonsense.

Okay, cloud is wherever you want Cloud to be cloud is wherever you do a contemporary Advanced deployment, okay? And I think that's a very, very important thing because there's no reason why you cannot do this wherever you want to. 5 years ago, this would have been a very difficult proposition today, ansible terraform, by the way is, is, is just easy. You, if you want to for free, you can go to the website to order get her page and you can download for free script, that will allow you to set up a highly

available postgres. Cluster, with monitoring in about 20 minutes on a w, s o n on vsphere, the script of the year, look at them copied them, do whatever they want, you want to with them there on the post office license. So cloud is everywhere. Cloud is wherever you want to deploy, there's no excuse anymore. Now, let's talk about vendor lock-in. I said post office is available everywhere. What's really interesting? It's available everywhere from well, no vendor like you can just take it you can self-supported you can ask

second quadrant you can ask anybody to support it, right? So you have database-as-a-service that's being offered including than a, you no ads ad Alibaba to this list. You can self-supported anywhere, right? If you decide, you can just employ postgres on their infrastructure-as-a-service and then you can say, yes, I'll support it. Or I'm going to go to one of the posters integrators, where you can come to Enterprise the events they supported. For me, the really important messages. It runs

anywhere and you're in control of which, when do you use? Suppose this gives you a fantastic platform to deploy anywhere and not suffer vendor lock-in. You are in control with postgres. And that's a very, very important because now that allows you to do something that you could not do before. Before you would not use the capabilities of the database. You wouldn't dive into db2 or Oracle or SQL Server. You would stay away from lot of their built-in capabilities. You would stay away from the lot of things that you paid money for

it. Because the moment you drove in, you were locked in into the platforms that they supported and into the cost of their support postgres, that's no longer true. Multi Club over 50% of our customers tell us today and this is a survey from scale grid. All the links are there. You can just use, click on them out, this is already on the website. Most customers today, use more than one cloud. Can you mix a well? Is that really true? Well yes it is. Almost everybody is using open shift today and a little bit of our dies and then deploy

something on AWS and if you look a little deeper you'll see that they also deploy something on Google. So multi-cloud is absolutely real, okay? So it's the first thing is cloud is everywhere. You can make a cloud everywhere and then almost every company uses more than one of those clouds for their deployment, So Customer Service King us, be Cloud agnostic. They come to us and this is this is too very real cases of extremely large. North American companies that are saying, do not build anything that ties me into one

Cloud, do not make assumption that we will Deploy on vsphere or on a w s or on Google make a cloud agnostic. So that I remain in control, I want the deployed wherever I want and I want to be able to deploy on multiple play. I want to have the ability to have my weed, replica. My back up, somewhere else. I need the customer. I want to be in control, do not lock me in again, okay. And they want to be able to move workloads. Now, not like right now but they want to have the ability to say

oh Google, you're not treating me. Well, I'm going to go to Amazon. Right? Or Amazon you raising your prices. You can't do that. I'm going to ask her right. Or say I have new Regulatory Compliance. I'm going to go from the public Cloud to my private class. They want to remain in control. so, There's another thing here that happened in post office today with postgres. We have the right tooling that is just like Oracle Enterprise Manager. We have many of the tools around that allow us to manage post, got that scale that used to be a big problem

that you couldn't do a couple of postgres database has. But could you actually handle a hundred, a thousand or more reliable? Could you have a single pane of glass into a very large postgres? Estates, could you do management by exception? Which is absolutely required when you have a larger Bowl supposed to stay. Well, that used to be a problem. It is not a problem anymore. The right management rules exist for monitoring management. Visibility high-availability, they are now block-level incremental, backup tools and you do need Block Level

incremental backup as soon as you cross about, the one terabyte to Terry be special because then the database become so big that is very hard to split off every night and you have to do that in order to maintain your RPO and archaea requirements. But all of that is feasible now. So we now have ways to integrate with Oracle SQL Server to replicate. We can do change data, capture all the things that we've known from the commercial environment are now available. There's not a reason anymore not to do this.

Performance. And few of us are aware enough in the room. I thought it was here. Either this Benchmark, it's it's available on our website with all the details, and you can also get the code, but they're the really interesting part about this. Let me see if this is really interesting part about this is if you look at the curve for posters 9.5 book with 925 4 years ago, 4 years ago at Peak down to the about 28,000 GPS, on a PC bench test. Today at Peaks out at 40. Mm p p, s that is 50% faster in 4

years. That's one thing. And the second thing is the dreaded, what I call the me where performance dropped, if you give it to any connection has also disappeared, I'm sure that if we pushed, if he pushed the connections further, we was somewhere see the half an hour out here, but it's no longer we're used to be, we had to exactly get it right. You know, to get the maximum performance, she'll think about it. We now have the management tools to manage at scale. And the performance has drastically changed. There's no saying where we will be in another four years, okay?

So a lot of the reasons why in the past you have to buy into planetary systems. I'm gone the way of a performance and manageability point of view, we've achieved something where, you know, a lot more people can buy into posters now. And then, you know, Gartner magic, quadrant is a documentation of the fact that post office has achieved real Enterprise maturity. Not just me saying, it's hear your people like Doctor, Who, I think, a very well respected. And in most companies were saying today that post, this is absolutely wheel

and has both the completeness of vision, which basically means all the tools and the ability to execute which means to transmit the data to GPS and the reliability to be used in the Enterprise and postgres has been in the Gartner. Magic quadrant sense, they were started in 2013. I'm going to ask the audience one question, there's something missing in this graph. What is missing? Vasquez Enterprises, people crashing their performance and and Gartner only works with vendors that would open source group. So that's why they say.

So what else is missing? Right. And they used to be in there. If you paid back in yet you would find them, they're gone. Okay. So today postgres is the only open source relational database left in the Gartner magic. Quadrant Thanks. I want you to all. Remember that. Your company goes open-source which everybody is going. That's the that is the platform to go to and everybody can have these slide so I think they're going to be on the on the website and in and then use them. Soak, Angela address is everywhere. Right? When is there anybody here in this room? Who says, I don't know. My

company is not going at all. Anybody still hear? Anybody still saying, okay, know we're doing waterfall and agile is everywhere. Everybody needs to be able to support that. And then I think the the really biggest changes happen slowly is that developers Drive. Lot more decisions. I don't drive all the decisions, but they're very, very impactful because developers are all about achieving speed, time-to-market. Time-to-market is really, what's up? I know how this thing works

developers developers are all about getting stuff, done fast and so developers, play a much, much bigger role in the decision-making and I never done before. So if we recap a little bit, If we recap a little bit how developers use to take decisions as it said before they looked at provide, do I get the capabilities? That's how we see. Like, the very first thing. Can this database to do what I needed to do? Next Thursday is ETC. Is it Innovative enough? Right in my account, I cannot build on this

and I know that my app is going to survive for the next 4 or 5 years, right. I know he's going to build on my shop access anymore today, right? Because it's going down the hill. Nobody, I think is going to buy build new app today on my sequel. Can't because again, it's not Innovative, there's not a whole lot of Drive behind it. Does it support, Agile development, doesn't avoid. Vendor lock-in, right? And then obviously, do I get the performance that I need? And the man's ability that I need? If I say. So what does that mean? In the old ways, there was a

significant significant disadvantage because if you try to stay at that level of isolation, will you do not buy into the database capabilities? There's three things that happen. first, you do not use and lovers the features of the database so, You don't use Jason B, you don't use GIS, you don't use arranged this hype in Oracle, you don't find deeply into space shuttle or into XML. You don't do it because the moment you do it, you have to commit it to the vendor. Now, the problem is, if you

don't do that and you have to write all your own code, okay? If somebody has worked in postgres with the range data type, for example, it's a fantastic day. If you do, I don't know hotel reservation system or any kind of resource reservation system, the range data type is a fantastic thing. It'll reduce pages and pages of custom code, two, one or two lines. A query is fantastic. So the trade-off between staying at the sequel level and buying into the concept, is that you write a lot more code. So it takes a lot longer and your app is actually more franchise. And the

worst thing is, you already paid for that code, that somebody else wrote was just going to write it again. To maintain that Independence. And the big thing about it is because it's available everywhere. And from so many different vendors and also self-supportive, you don't have to do that, okay? You can accept and leverage more of the stuff that's already there so you can avoid your application code growing so much. But there's something, there's something that's even more fundamental. It's a little hard to understand. But

I'm not sure his old lady in the room or anybody has not gotten this little booklet for know. Like she has more book, that's go get them because in the back of this is almost at the end. He reinforced eyes to something that Dimitri Fontaine from Microsoft. Also emphasized it yesterday said it is a special discount for this book. Get the book if your developer working with post just go get this book or get this, okay? Because they both make the point that if you move a lot of your logic from the database into the application,

you lose something, very, very important. Not just you write code that you don't have to write. You're also moving out of the environment where we have all the acid compliance. Okay? Because in the database, you can work with something called the snapshot, right? So you have all the isolation layers, that isolation levels, that post office, right? We've committed repeatable and serializable. If you move the code into the app and move the data to the app and then try to do all your work

in the app, you've left all of that behind, but not just you write code that you shouldn't write, you actually jeopardize your integrity of of your calculations, okay? So there is really a very, very hard reasons why doing more than post not just cheaper and faster. It actually makes a lot more sense to make sure that you have a consistent app. So basically what has changed is available everywhere on all the option on premise? Openshift openstack, you can you can use all kinds of crap that you can use, help charged with kubernetes. You can use operators, you can use ansible Chef

puppet salt. And then the thing is, it's supported by many vendors. So you are completely free to pick the vendor that you like, okay. And if one vendor doesn't do the job for you, go to somebody else. So there's no vendor lock-in by going with post stress. I personally believe it has, it is the most Innovative and brought his platform. You can do full text search Dave page just published. It's a really nice how to log on, how to do full text search with posca. It's very easy when I approached

him about it because I heard that manga. Do it? He looked at me like I had two heads and said, you know, it's actually about four lines of code. That's how easy it is. Nice. When you think about capabilities, there's a tremendous around amount of capabilities in postgres, things that in the past, where we would say, oh no, we need to combine elasticsearch. I need to go in there. I'm not sure how I do the gis today, don't say, no. No, you can do it all in one place, okay? And you don't have to be afraid of platform, Lockett, or vendor lock-in

performance. I think I showed you that the performance and manageability today is absolutely there. We see very, very few cases where somebody has to say, hey, for performance reasons, I must stay with Oracle rock or something. Yes, it happened but it's very rare, okay? And then, you know, Innovation, I mean, multi-model extensible, a fantastic community and if you have any doubt about how fast is evolving, will evolve. Bruce wants and give a great talk about. You know why postgres will never die? You really looked at the

mechanics of that and again understanding that it's a Vibrant Community and how fast it innervates is again something that you should be aware of when you commit to post office. So let's just look at the old model and the old model, our layer of insulation, or abstraction was between the application, in the database, that's where we used hibernate spring, any kind of Barbie, that's what we had the Slayer and we really did not want to Dive Dive deeper, right? Because the moment we drove

deeper, then we committed, we were committed for life, the life of the application, to SQL Server to Oracle, to db2, to whatever. And, with that came a commitment to money, a commitment to where we could deploy a commitment to a licensing model, a commitment to so many things that we actually don't want to deal with it anymore. So we stayed at the higher-level, but by staying at the higher-level, we actually did not take advantage of the tool that we actually had, right. Okay. Sew-in and we move the

tremendous amount of business logic into the application layer. What we can do now? Is a bit more interesting. The new abstraction layer is above the cloud infrastructure. You can now use the database to the hilt, use the extensible data model. Use the things that Mike Stonebreaker brought to beer over 25 years ago, they are fantastic tool, use them, okay? And again, Dimitri Fontaine, and this book gives great examples of how much power in terms of reduced code and faster time-to-market and greater consistency. You can get by, by doing that leverage the database and

and please, I'm a database guy, you should be aware of what these isolation layers are and how dangerous it is. If you say, oh no, I'm going to read all of this table and memory. All of this table and memory. And then I do all my stuff here. You know what happened when you do this If something changed in the database, maybe the seat that you're trying to book is gone. Okay, so, now you're committing a seat that has long gone. If you did, all that calculate inside the database, you would use the database snapshot and the isolation layer, to make sure that you don't sell the

seat that's gone. If you do it up here, I know what developers say say. Oh yeah, but before I commit that, I'll verify that it's still available. Okay. So they will probably this much code to get the to get the data into memory and the road, again, this much code to make sure that they wouldn't commit a seat, that is gone. And they could have written to the Lions of SQL query and they could be the market like weeks faster, do that, okay? And then, you know, never to date sites, I think they're great. They're just I mean there's things like an IPv6 data type.

We can just say, is this address in my sitter range, okay? And it's one line is one line try to do that in Java. Okay, you can, but it's not one line, believe me or it's a long line. Okay, now you can move to stay away from cloud, vendor specific moment, you do that, you have committed against, okay? And then I encourage you to go and get the market faster and really, the key messages use one, powerful API you supposed to say p. I a good reason why that is now available in cockroach and you can buy and in other places because it is a really powerful and very,

very portable API. So my final message here, if I can, convince this girl, is you supposed to get stuff done? So thank you very much, any questions? Does it say before you said that when you say that post Rescue League available as part of the week-long Bender effective second block, which we can get a. Visit is part of the blue. Can you can? You can get that from nobody supported me supporter. So I can Potter and supported. Crunchy, supported are dead. All their, their all their interface. Phone number to

the real game. That's happening, is actually the value-added services. So if I go to a tablet is my sentiment, which is having an SQL integration, so you can write it straight out of those two lines of code, just like, you mention, two ends of cordial, to mention two lines of code. Absolutely, as soon as you go to proprietary VMware functions Azure functions, AWS function, Google functions, Alibaba functions, nutanix function. Yes, you've committed again. All I'm saying is that the lair, the level, where the commitment happens has moved down.

There's more functionality that's available for you to safely, use and still be able to move. So this is providing the document Orient Are the capabilities. When you say document-oriented means the file in, which you can perform the tax search or or a mongo Mongo, document style capabilities. So Jason be basically Village profile provide me the roster analytics part Last analytics. Can you put some light bottle cap abilities which last in Russia? But there's really I mean, as

far as GIS, we have done some migrations with customers, where they came from space shuttle to GIS. And initially, the customer said, okay, so what did you guys just do? Because we took pages and pages of code and would we do such one line? Because that she is supposed to get his capabilities are really phenomenal. Okay, and in terms of simplification and N in computer power, just because she is isn't acceptable data type. Thank you. And the biggest lights, I think you mentioned. So we are using one of the

kids that were as well and what you got. So we don't need to post this to you. Make sure the other tools available for migrations for SQL Server right now. She'll be there any, I think I was putting the open-source migration tool for data across, right to scheme for four tables at cetera. And then data you can do snapshots migrations, there's a bunch of tools to do that. You can do, I change it to capture migrations? We have a tool that does that called replication server hbr, support that I think it tunity support staff. So there's a bunch of ways of doing it. You may ask

me. Okay, why do I worry about the difference between Snapchat migration and change data capture their challenges that the snapped up migration? I can take a long time, right? So, and and often migrations are limited by allowable downtime. So if you tell me, I have 12 hours of downtime and I have 500 gigs of data. Also, yeah, that's not a problem. We'll just do, we'll dump it and reload it right there. We'll do a consistent, Snapchat and reload it. We have to discuss them shut down, so we have a laptop or recreate on this side, and we're consistent. Again,

we're good to go. 12 hours is a long down time. Five hundred gigabytes is actually a small database, right? If you come to me and say I have five terabytes of data, and I have 12 hours of downtime, I'll say, well you can't do that in the snapshot. So what we're not going to look at it as maybe we can actually break the snapshot up and do it in here alone. But even they are 12 hours for 5tb. That's not a lot of time. So what we do is do change data capture, right? We would do a transition once we record the snapshot on, Side and any change that happens afterwards. We trickle

across. Okay, now the thing that does not exist to my knowledge is a migration 40 SQ out, right? So that the procedural code inside sequel server, I am not aware of a tool that translates that if you're interested, your best bet might, maybe I spy ever. They have a translation tool that is kind of interesting but I I cannot tell you how good it is. You spoke about our databases on kubernetes. So, do you see it? Rained where people are using post-racial cubanitas reason. I'm asking, is like, some

people say, it's not recommended, and some people lives in during good whiskey though, just yesterday. So you'll find it at Enterprise tv.com and the summary of this is basically this. If you can, if you if your database is actually a micro micro dataserv. Yes, call Renae. This is great. But if your database is a firefighter 450 terrible monstrosity, right? You can do it with carbonated but you don't have advantage of carbonated, right? So basically, The limit that we would

where we would give guidance, is the moment you need to pin CPU memory or I owe to the database at that point in time. Really doesn't give you an advantage anymore. Actually a disadvantage, okay? So if you have a small database that is not the pending on having assigned memory CPU or is kubernetes is great. Okay, if you support developers or functional Certification testing coordinator since great but as soon as soon as you need to say, okay I'm going to start worrying about, I owe like I need to,

I need to say dirty buffer flushing right? How it happened, which is a VM setting, can't do it at the eye of the container soon as you need to do that or you making the carbonators technology do something that it really wasn't designed for. So there's not a hard line that I can tell you but you go from. Yeah, it's very very good too. Well that's good. And then over here is like really bad. Like I always say in the in the pets first cattle and algae, right? You swear to get to the middle and now your

child has a name, right? And it's not really at all anymore, right? It gets to be more like a pet. You treated special. It has a special place in the barn at cetera. So it almost becomes again, like a VMware system with a special settings, okay? But if you can go to Micro Data Services, truly microdata services that are fungible and can be stopped. And started another not critically dependent on the on resources and it's great. But if they if you, if you need to assign hundred percent of

CPU, if you need to assign Typical let you know, one third of memory to share puffers Etc when it is not going to buy you anything. We spoke a lot about vendor login, right now, if I have to do my the5th, who's Grace, I'll have to use petroni. If I have to do horizontal scaling, I'll have to use Hiatus. So, is there something that supposedly communities looking forward, in terms of getting all this in the car? Like tomorrow, if I want to do horizontal scaling, I want to do it in postgres code itself, and not depend on the site to sort of

attorney, except well, somewhat conceptually similar to Outsiders, does it? But they are also investing heavily in that work. Do you use for data refers? To be able to delegate work there? So still something's missing in postgres, like Carol, excuse my queries inside. A table on the shards. Okay, so that's going to come but I can't tell you when that's the first thing. Second thing is, we've had a number of customers come to Austin. Ask that same question, I need to do. I need to do charting at cetera upon closer inspection? We have never come across the

example. Where was actually need it. Okay, very often, it's like not thinking about it the right way, okay? And when we're back to the discussion we just had about microservices, right? If we if we have a system that has the same customers in India and customers in Singapore, need to be shards of the same database or could they be to microservices that? Share a common definition of data that is replicated. Logically replicated. Now you have two separate systems. You don't worry anymore about a Distributive snapshot which is what's going to

kill you from a performance. Back to fight. You don't do that anymore, you just make sure that they use a common product definition and for the rest is two different databases. They feed one common data warehouse, but for the rest of us to Microsoft offices. So I would, I would really before you go down that path with all the complex. The complexities of a distributed snapshots, I would highly encourage you to think they can't. I do something similar by going smart way with microservices.

That's the last of the question. So, you talked about the issue that we could face, you could face when we run post office in Coeburn, it is. So all of these issues to resolve all of these issues, there's a new wave called new sequel. So there's some new releases are coming like cockroach TV, which you suppose for a call. So what do you think about that? Like, I should suppose. There's also move to Maita musical idea. I mean, I am somewhat skeptical, okay. But maybe that's, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool

acids kind of complaint guy and I think cockroach and is hardware for Evelyn spanner. A very interesting architecture is right, but you still trying to go to stretch. cap, theorem the same consistency availability and Camera with peace and for constraints, right? And Cockroach tries to have a work or not tries has a an algorithm to figure out what event actually happened earlier. And I really can't tell you how how that will perform, you know, in a truly distributed way, I would really encourage folks who have that problem again to think. Can I segregate my

data? If I have a natural Shard, make a Microsoft Surface because you're trying to spread something that buys, very nature is a bit fragile right now so I can't I don't want to say anything negative about cockroaches. I love that they're using the post office protocol, and again, it allows you to do everything that I talked about here. And by the way, they're supposed Ghost Protocol is pretty good. They support posts and a bunch of other things. And if it turns out that you need,

something that I only cockroach offers go for it. But then they promised acid transaction was like, yeah, I am not sure how they can promise that. And have the constraints of the cap. Theorem, maybe there's a wormhole somewhere, that kind of makes it work really fast? I don't know. So, I am aware of it but, you know, we really have not done an in-depth evaluation the night. I don't want to say anything negative about somebody else. Mark is your phone, I guess some time now. So if you guys have any questions,

I'm hurt. I'm sure she'll be happy to take that outside and after the session. So thank you. Thanks Mom for the session.

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