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UKFW 2020
April 20, 2020, Online, London, United Kingdom
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UKFW 2020 - Money, Money, Money: The Future of Payments - Part 1
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About the talk

Topic: FinTech

The speed of transition in some economies from a cash to a digital-payments economy is staggering: What are the lessons other nations can learn from this?

Discussion points:

Embedded Payments: What’s Next?

Payments Worldwide: A Comparison of Business Models

What innovation can markets expect?

How will this impact current players and users?

Speakers:

Moderator Kristy Duncan, Founder & CEO, Women in Payments

Julian Sawyer, Managing Director Europe, Gemini

Marcus Treacher, SVP Customer Success, Ripple

Michael Mainelli, Executive Chairman, Z/Yen Group

Pinar Ozcan, Professor of Entrepreneurship and Innovation, Said Business School

About speakers

Kristy Duncan
Founder & CEO at Women in Payments
Julian Sawyer
Chief Executive Officer at Bitstamp
Marcus Treacher
Chief Executive Officer at ClearBank®
Michael Mainelli
Sheriff of the City of London at City of London Corporation
Pinar Ozcan
Professor at Entrepreneurship and Innovation at University of Oxford

Kristy founded Women in Payments in 2012, a global initiative that connects, inspires, and champions women across the fintech and payments markets in Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, and Singapore. A payments industry thought leader, she is also avid supporter of fintech. Kristy is an advisor to FI.SPAN, a company which offers banks a multi-API integration and connectivity platform for corporate clients, and is on the board of directors for Digital Retail Apps, a fintech that delivers digital in-store shopping solutions. She was also a judge for Australia’s Finnies Awards in 2017, and the Holt Accelerator in Montreal in 2018.

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I’ve specialised in digital banking and payments for most of my career, delivering transformational improvement through technology innovation. I'm thoroughly enjoying working with the teams at Clear.Bank and RTGS.global to build the payment rails of the future

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Pinar Ozcan is Professor of Entrepreneurship and Innovation at Said Business School at University of Oxford. She specializes in strategy, entrepreneurship, and the emergence of new markets. Her current research is on AI, fintech and digital platforms. Pinar completed her Ph.D. at the Stanford Technology Ventures Program (STVP) at the Stanford University Management Science and Engineering Department, and also holds a Master of Science and dual Bachelors degrees from Stanford.

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Hello, welcome to innovate finances, 2020 virtual conference, we're here live from the ice melts isolated Studios of our respective homes in the midst of This Global coronavirus pandemic. Where are some of you everyday has become Bring Your Kids To Work Day? My name is Christy Duncan I'm CEO of women in payments. I'm based in Toronto and have for fabulous guests today who will share their insights. In the topic of the future of money, start with a quick introduction from each of our gas do you want to start us off pienaar?

Of course, thank you very much. Christy. Can you hear me? Well, beautiful at the site business school University of Oxford and Santa together with my colleagues are professors are looking at the changes in the financial markets, starting with open, Banking, and pst2. So, they're doing this research since 2016 looking at the house and more and more fintech and it firms are coming into markets in the UK and EU. And how is this is changing the competitive landscape in a nutshell. We see that there are a lot of Innovations coming in. And at the

first banks have been on the defensive side trying to protect their existing products and services, but more and more. We see that they are starting to collaborate with sintex and bringing more and more Innovations to the market. So overall, Right now, also looking specifically more into a, i basement X currently, and their struggle to get access to data. And looking forward to contributing to this panel. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks Pinar. Julian Sawyer from Gemini. Do you want to give it a quick intro? And tell us your interest in the future of money?

In director, for Europe for Gemini? Which is the exchange was founded by Cameron and Tyler. Winklevoss, December. Some relatively new truck despite the challenges facing financial services and particularly in Plymouth Road and I will trust Awesome. We have Market Street store from Ripple who will have an interesting perspective on money? Do you want to give us an intro to your to yourself Market? Gets up early so I'm part of the team of rental on. We are a

team based organization is working to develop a new model for Global Payments. What in the bank in the payments world, for what I can say to you is because I spend a good decade of HSBC this wild to pull then and all the fighting in the forest with for seven years old. Well enough to work with Rick. How the pin that load is developing Well, fantastic figure an old hand, a triple that's great. At least Michael friends and groups. Can you give us an intro and tells you your interest in the future of money? We have Christina to the like, to be

here with us, such a distinguished panel, Michael? My Dale on the executive chairman of the CN group, we found his 25 years ago now to bring together finance and Technology. I'm coming out to do payments. Is somebody providing them. But there's somebody who studies them, we've been quite active in the area of blockchain, smart lechers, really since we built our first one's a backhoe 25 years ago, no less. And I've been interested in Keen Observer. Most of our important Publications really came out about to 10 12 years ago on the future of money, some of it done with the city of London

corporation on various research bodies like here in the United Kingdom. So looking forward to our conversation, Fantastic. Well, this is great. We've got some fantastic perspectives from a wide range of different. Stakeholder groups in the ecosystem and I really excited to have to beat Madara to hear can cover both the wholesale and the retail payments markets because so many people have different views on the future of money. Also looking at domestic as well as some other Global jurisdictions just to see what influences

they may have and what's happening and other Market. But one thing, I'm I'm thinking that as we move forward and into this new world of digital currencies, if you will and new new ways of of paying, these are actually getting more intelligent, you're getting smarter. So it's no longer just a paper that the piece of paper that I gave to you and it doesn't have any idea where it's been there, where it's going payments. Now as we as we evolve are becoming much more intelligent and bringing information more about the transaction itself. But also where did that money come from?

And who's it going to do? We can actually trapped out a little bit more. Clearly one of the things that will many of our audience will have seen, is that in this new age? In a suite number of really distinguishing factors first. We got new payment, standards and infrastructures that are evolving both in the UK, as well as globally, emerging digital currencies in a number of different flavors. We also have the emergence of new digital Commerce platform, many of, which and Compass are actually in bed. The payments

and some of those include at B2B Market platforms. Last but not least, I got new players, introducing Innovations and new business models that fence hacks and Neil Bank, Sally face at cetera. And this may further changed in a post covid-19 and environment. I wanted to kick off a discussion by exploring new payment, standards and infrastructures that are being built. It was in the UK. And in other markets, they got things like the NPA Swift GTI. Ripple, Etc. Many Witcher dovetailing with the move towards open banking.

I want to get the palace views on how these new infrastructures will pave the way for future of money. And what potential roadblocks they may encounter given that. They're not all necessarily headed in the same directions nor will they necessarily the interoperable? Maybe you could pick us off on this Marcus. Yes, I definitely like to be looking at the payments Thunder globally. This kind of an elephant in the room, which is the 300, some network of the current standards people use around the world and not fit for purpose is

to enable payments to become really effective than to do that for the global economy and Society. You think how we go about how to go about making a payment really come to life. So that leaves Nation around the transaction around the underlying activities is communicating with a payment instruction. So I can literally looking at very, very, very quickly with Superbikes worldwide. It's too late payments with. Y'all lived along with a very strong exit, 28, 2002 to comply in information,

which two blocks are in federal court date in an irrefutable way forever, and not really Naples. You know, thanks and payment companies to rethink how they communicate payment information between each other, in a way that makes it much easier to people and companies to receive money a money in transparent way cross-border, I miss you. So, so, so, so we think we work this way. We can about the stand, it this way, then it it takes out and no missed calls from the payment

industry because you able to do in compliance. Checking for my teacher, requirements of the meaning of frequency of a very old paymentech what is this really about redefining the underlying Rail and making them think they are open to the clear? Cheapest standard globally that you can read about the payment at Berkeley Lake. Awesome. So you using existing standards and a height of 20 or 22, combining them with new technology to help us build a new rail on a global basis of

fabulous. Thanks for that Marcus Michael. Did you want to weigh in on this? I think Marcus make some excellent points there in deed. And in fact, I sit on the United Kingdom's acreditacion service where the we're basically the regulator for ISO standards amongst many other things, including the for Tories, I believe the standards have a have a large role to play, but but they are slow-moving and this is a very fast-moving area and I think this is one of the tensions. I constantly point to is the need for standards in payment systems is crucial that I need to

be able to plug into you. I mean you can go back to the coinage and paper money for that matter and see the importance of standard. So that that's that, that's one point. I think the second thing is set up a monetary infrastructure. A new payment standards are typically built around either. A government thing like a central bank around, some type of mutual like a Visa and MasterCard and Swift when they initially started and it's it's it's essential third party. Probably that I think is fundamental to analyzing this face. If you look at a central third-party, there's a tendency towards a

natural monopoly and such natural monopolies are capable of really, of a closing, a lot of difficulty. So I believe that's a weed. When red lysing, this needs to look at the tension between governments like central banks and other Central third parties. Upgrade. Anybody else want to rate weigh in on this before we go to audience questions? Pienaar Julian. I think the only I'm Sebastian Terraria is I think historically and Banking and payments, the regulated like that. I'm building a house with a

granny grip on the agenda and I wonder whether going forward other institutions, whether that's will start driving the agenda. And I wonder whether as industry with too slow to be able to adults and drive. So it is a first-mover advantage and we just got to make sure an industry that we are. The first move, all the white people gets taken away from us, I think Yeah, that's a great point. Exactly exactly what I wanted to say. Was just to expand on that point and just emphasize that in s, payments are becoming more and more Global and platforms themselves are being

connected to one another across countries and regions. And there's an interesting dynamic between Regulators previously, not meaning to work together and the to a great extent and now and, you know, having to coordinate much more in order to make sure that, you know, if they don't play catch-up. But rather actually Define how payments are going to be executed around the world. Yeah, that's that's a really good point. Get ahead of that curve so that they get the first-mover advantage is almost like I kind of heard this term Innovation by regulation but having The Regulators out front which

isn't typically the way we see Regulators operate in many markets, Invite questions from the audience. You got a couple coming in here. I do ask that the audience, keep their questions concise so that we can actually digest them as we try to, to answer them. The first one. It's come in this really interesting in the UK and PS, okay. UK are rethinking rebuilding retail payments. At a question is, who is supervising and regulating the wholesale payments, infrastructure, within the UK, beyond the bank's, does anybody want to

answer that? I like to know just give you a bit of perspective, Bank of England, that is doing that at the check in the bank of England. The quiet and is also doing ltts replacement program to the wholesale side is run by the bank of England, has a private sector company not supported Life cafe. UK, That's very helpful. Thank you so much for that. I got a question coming in here from my friend and and Africa saying, I hope recently released a report about the impact of digital Financial Services on covid-19 same

digital financial services, use your saves US 60 million in 3 days At the question. Two palaces, do you think digital Financial Services can serve a better humanitarian role going forward? I can take that one. If that's okay. Yes, I sent me the strength. We had a feeling I forgot, Middle East, Asia and Latin America has payments. If Bailey build reach. We think suddenly that's an area where the current Financial Network. It's a limited-time, constrained adult, physical methods, and it possible to reach Earth faster than you

can with Dish Network. I guess it's great to be going to ride with me at 9 o clock Lively, responding late customers who are providing services to their clients is hard. Nothing but difficult. Why was the digital players are really picking up for you so I can see in the current mode off the welder. Within this star covid-19 situation because people believe that the virus could be carried on cash and her are becoming less and less willing to accept it. Start me at a point where

the trends are to use digital payments to especially in developing countries to help the population. Make payments more securely has already started a few years ago with the mobile payments and he saw that especially with their m-pesa and you know, excellence in other developing countries we saw how that was actually really helping in Louisville area has a mobile phone but no bank account. And so now it's at covid-19 what we see is again you know avoiding cash has

become an important and digital payments are now taking both developed and developing countries. And in my opinion the other effects of course, has that as we get into this situation is covid-19. We're much more willing to share data and that's data is going to strengthen their position offer digital platforms, but I think we're going to talk about that a little later. Yeah exactly. Thanks for that Pinar. Good points. Another covid-19 question from the audience,

do you believe covid-19 will have an impact on digital asset? Marcus if you want to take a crack at that. Yet, suddenly I'm in the office yet. So we definitely use the upstairs xrp, to deliver liquidity to Emerging Market. I'm just expressing how I feel flows between USA, and to Mexico, we used to live in obscurity and what we found in the past month. Is it the penis or the desire to switch to digital asset to deliver? Look, what if, they'd rather than trading Fiat currencies is really picked up enough because sentence are really uncomfortable

uncomfortable now holding with us and holding assets. In the blank is a greater willingness to use the glasses, as a way, to let her call you on point when required into Target, Mexico Philippines, for example, I have to buy and hold 15, Pesos Mexican pesos overnights for the weekend. Really is not a currency. Where is Baton Rouge population against the dollar and make it difficult to manage the glasses. So, I deal with only one point when required so you're holding us over there for you. Take less exposure. Can I

try out for some something that please? I just want to just back from Friends Whenever there is a crisis or a war or anything like that then technology tends to accelerate in its delivery. So I think we've talked. Just got back, she already is going to happen the way you think we have more control of that money. Are they more concerned about the future? People can't stop thinking about many different sites. The generations of the millennials What it means to you. And I think that technology

for additional assets and blockchain technology is rising. Well, thanks. Thanks. Julian, that's great. I had to go on to one more question here and then we'll move on to the next section. I want to ask the impact on the audience is asking what will be the impact of covid-19 on Visa and MasterCard? Now that POS sales in cross-border travel is hit significantly. I think this is kind of two pieces. One is how they react thing, but the other is how the market is changing. Does anybody want

to talk about that? Xbox. I can give it like, being suddenly in Southeast Asia, and the Middle East is a shift towards QR code payment. For this is a wave, your phone. If you are tired, then communicate with the device in the, in the shop, and the payment is effectively without network and we have to cross border. So I know people aren't talking right now, but you can listen or indeed 3, sites or any other method without needing the physical infrastructure stocks become less essential, it's hilarious

because back to niccoli weakness, and cross-border payments. Delete, watch out for a walk. Has been deducted for crested late nights at me, like, some out for a tendency to touch a thing, which again, to undermine the Viewpoint of her in the car and using the cop Network. Pay is based on QR code, DC. Michael Visa Mastercard starting to adopt qr-code as a form factor for contactless payments. Will personally I would I would I'm surprised it's taken this

long for them to start thinking about it. I mean, the example of Ali pay has been a very strong one until I have been surprised at the reticence and taking it up, so, yes, I expect it to happen at some point and some point soon I'm in a Tulsa is very interesting. Is that to me, both Visa, Mastercard are probably in a stronger position and I think than people give them credit for. There's been a huge shift in the way in which payments will be, can dump it in things like international travel but there's equally huge rise in the home deliveries. Until I I'm sort of Fairly bullish on

both of them and given their dominant positions, essential third parties to which I alluded earlier. I can see them at a continuing for a very, very long time. I just bite digital disruptions That was also seen visa and MasterCard and a Max in medical markets increased their contact list limit so that people can actually make payments without having to enter a pin at work signature for that matter in some markets. So that it becomes a true contactless payment, which is more embraced, more supported in this covid-19 environment.

I think maybe just maybe keep going to add that to Lisa and American Express etcetera, have been making a huge Investments and making them collaborations to go online and supports platforms, and you really enable Merchants to go across and cons and it's seamlessly. We've seen recent collaboration such as The Descent acquire cards and working with Lisa and of course, Ripple now also on our panel, working with American Express. These are old Signs that say, you know, these Giants are going there

and they are going to have mostly focus on online and payments and this is the future. Yeah, that's really interesting watching at the golf and it seems that a lot of this Innovation is actually accelerating to do to the new realities ever Market. I'd like to live on now, to dress a big elephant in the room digital currencies. We actually, I think have three different take on a Zagat cryptocurrencies that have Bitcoins Assyrians extra fees, Etc, but stable coins, such as Libra, but that's some changed of late. I just saw an

announcement from Libra last week saying they've changed the initial scope of their Vision. If I discover their initial Vision to overhaul, several elements of the project In an attempt to placate Global Regulators is now announced Libra 2.0 offering a set of digital versions of The single currency such a dollar or that Libra Euro. That'll be back from the right back by cash or cash equivalents. So interesting that set Facebook is that changing course, they're a little

bit but we also have a central bank digital currencies which are becoming closer to reality. I think their agenda was promoted to fast-track Taft early birth announcement last year, but we've now got some life Pilots in the marketplaces for Central Bank, the reichsbank as has got a pilot in the Bank of England. Also has a a discussion paper out so they are contemplating it and starting to get more serious about it. I think most of mature markets around the world are embracing digital payments in 1/4 form. Another plan, we talked

about card payments and mobile digital wallet, but we all said payments which are embedded in other apps. So in the corporate world, receiving a move away from cash and checks to variety of electronic payment options, including B2B transfers attached to it, but the majority of these are still based on Fiat currencies. Can you tell us where you see digital currencies coming to the market in the coming years and how they may coexist with Viet? He wants to kick us off. There may be here Christy, I'm a

big fan of Fiat, I think there's a lot of misapprehension and Miss Ms. Diagnosis in the sector. I mean fiat currency is effectively a tax credit and it's been running very strongly for well over three hundred years. Pretty much in its current structure, did you to the station of that has been going on for some time? And it certainly predates, any of the popularity of these other currencies cryptocurrencies. Well, you know, we're buying and swapping random numbers with each other. Like, I feel that if you want to sit in the dark and swap numbers with other people, that's great but it has

no backing and no intrinsic value to it. And I believe a lot of the cryptocurrency people are kind of crypto cockroaches in the same way that we kind of got gold bugs out there. So that's a bit contentious. Then we got the stablecoin. These are basically basket. The baskets has traditionally not done very well with other FDR's or the woku, which is a big thing. Here, twenty years ago, the world currency unit. Has lots of attempts at baskets and I think if anything covid has really put paid to most of these, the government's wouldn't be able to do what they're currently doing

around the world. You know, several percentage points of GDP supporting their economies if they were sitting with in either a crypto or a or a stable coin type environment. So I don't think governments have got any interest in it and as far as, you know, the crypto bugs, like if you listen, very carefully to what, either the Chinese or the rice box score or the bank of England are actually saying to think we might use a few technical Elements which are in cryptocurrencies that and really all they're talking about is potentially time-stamping some of it onto a distributed

Ledger but they won't be using The Ledger. It's a direct account with a bank and then I think it's got lots of Eminent changes in it, but they're not the changes of kind of free-market libertarianism. Can I can I jump in again? What we've got right now is a bike tube at Perfect Storm where we got. The regulator said, it was starting to engage in the topic of Block Chain. Cryptocurrency is starting to move out some very Innovative to see the signs of Institutions. Are you think this technology? And I think one of the big challenges that

we and the crypto industry have gone and I think we in the financial services industry by cryptic ounces. Applications about contracts with maybe abilities to, to pipe through all of. This is a general acceptance that this is going to be close to play. Now, if I wanted to, I think it's weird how much does a ticket cost for the white Vans remix beats per second? What does that is to be sold into the pie chart? Another wage that we are Geminis Replacement. And I think, I guess if you look at something like a stable court

is also staying in the technology and the speed and efficiency of his payment in a different way. We have got some really good solid, you can see the future, it will make the time. This area is super, super interested. If we just think it's going to replace, these are Mastercard or Foster payments or so, then I think you're completely wrong. I think it's going to be around the customer. Well that's great that perspective Julian's. Thanks about anybody else. Want to weigh in here? Yes. Marcus I ain't you leaving

I will leave us pretty much always taken the view that it is the application of technology and how old is save? The technology has been developed to the fine-tuned way different purposes or for the Kubota payment problem, we can move out immediately using the cryptographic Alabama, football chain with extra payment. We affect our pay as a method of exchanging, just pulled up very quickly, so transactions, Starting again and I think white which is the having of liquidity. Bleyblades. I like to talk to you. It's been fine shooting.

You looking really forward to going to get below the puppy, eating his lines in use for them, not to figure out the value that is either being delivered or no settlement of the United States. He has great strength is Michael wasn't the right thing to do. And I still think that the text Makes it stronger. It interest in maintaining their fiat currency used clearly, one of the main leaders to manage their monetary policies and then have hence their own financial and economic drinks, but where we

are going with Julian suggested, having the digital currencies become, just another piece of the pie. So we've got different Alternatives and I agree with with Michael that they will never disappear. There's too much stress. It interesting that and there's a lot of trust in a lot of of the major currencies in the world. Maybe not so much some of that developing world, but I guess the question is from, from my end. How much do we seed is going down Market? We're certainly seeing it at the wholesale

level. Some ripples A lot going on in that in the wholesale level. But what about in the and the retail consumer level? Do we see digital currency is being adopted there at any point in the near future? If I can take that one this week, he's on a mission and Company Flyers. So it will be lost things. Go by to the flu, we currently have running in the Philippines, Mexico, examples of these are mainly flows for individual to individual smoke, smoke up at 8. So we already talked to you the small guy

in this bottle. I thought you were on point because I think the, the future of the sport of payment is going to be straight in the retail sector and a small copy text. I never said, you're not freaking Middle East are a Southwest want happening and I think his will be slower to make all of us will be created. In the retail Huntsville, Texas. Well, that's great. Thanks for setting me straight on that one, Marcus. I think it's time to take a couple of questions from the audience.

One is I sent there's a risk of the UK's to internally focused on the UK such as a global matters. So sorry on such a global matter. How do we see the landscape developing and perhaps two Banks or participants need to look to drive the agenda rather than risk a slow regulatory response? I'm about to pick that up. I will public dispute the first part of the question that today. I think if you look at some of the components of financial services is the height of lack the world in terms of instant payments and popped out

the one number. All the family mature, economies that have only just a thought, real-time payments like the United States, like Singapore, like Australian accent, trip to Hawaii in a whole range of things. We also have got an amazing fintech culture in the UK and a lot of my time has been spent in Europe where a lot of the European. Looks like, you guys to understand what is happening, how to do things in the way of delivering Innovation to Consumers. And I think it's pretty telling that, you know, when Gemini wants to go

Global self face was in London, UK is a major major Financial Services Center in a whole range of different things. And particularly, well, could could, could we invite the very vibrant skill-set and capability that we go through in the UK and having skill set that we have got. So I don't see us being left behind if we got an opportunity to drive the Chinese gender count forward. Thank you Christy. I just wanted to agree with the Julian and also give the example of open Banking and PS did you more specifically, these two sets of regulations, said it were the Pioneers in the world.

And you know, I'm not being disadvantaged by multiple country is standard edition issue. UK has really let open Banking and you know, our research and Canada us and Australia show that the, you know, all of these countries are looking at 2 to the UK to learn and the lessons and best practices and also understands and how Regulators have been able to buy to foster. Two markets with says so much pain, take activity. So I definitely agree with Julian on that. Yeah, I would have to agree with me and I'm sitting here

in the Canadian market, and looking at the UK, has a huge leader in this, and we're wanting to learn from you. And it goes back to my earlier point of innovation by regulation. The Regulators are really pushing the UK to be leaders and to rethink the way that we deliver financial services and open up the market for the Naples further competition. I got to have to move on to the next question, which them is another elephant of a topic and that is platforms. Call last week, we discussed our platforms. Like Google, Amazon, even Ali pay,

perhaps. Also many p2b platforms are emerging and gaining Market obituary embedding the payments right into the transaction. Let's talk about your thoughts on the role that these platforms will play in the trend towards and bedding payments and how they may evolve in the future, in our. Do you want to kick us out there? Of course. Thank you, Christy. So platforms are definitely it disrupting many different sectors and I you know Finance has been one of the most cutest people said, oh, you know, Derek are probably going to stay away from it because they

don't want to be regulated. The Giants, like her, like the incumbent, thanks. However, what you see is that, especially with the new sense of regulations coming in such as open bank and see if they to both side in the UK Europe and around the world, you see that the meaning of banking services are being bundles and as part of that A lot of fun platforms are coming in and taking some of those services and integrating them into their offering. And the common point of entry is typically for these big Tech platforms is payments. So as we know, Apple pay in Google pay have been

Universal payments methods and they emerge really out of my lack of ability of Banks and telcos to agree on on mobile payments. As it is exactly operation. And so that's been going on for a while and in addition would be seeing that those platforms that already had to pier to pier aspects such as new Google and Facebook. They do a peer-to-peer payments and Facebook here has an interesting, an advantage as what's up, is that full neutral? So you know what? I'm buying School tuition. I'm just sad. Pierre at payments is going to be possibly huge and what

they see is this as I see spots while I'm stuck with payments and integrates and payment services, More and more into, not just like Amazon in today, retail at platforms but also into their as database as Christie said at the beginning of the data that is being generated is is richer and there's so much more data at this point, which means, that this is strengthening these platforms and making them able to, to use a. I, and also to strengthen their retail offering much more in the future. So, in a sense, you know, we see that's platforms are going strong and finances. Well,

that's great. Did anybody else want to weigh in on this? Will let you know. I tend to think that people are paid our kind of hit it on the head but I'd like to expand on it as a flight way. We talked about the retail wholesale distinction, that we spend a lot of time on platforms and payments but I think is also Platforms in investment and certainly I would I've been seeing I believe intentionally and for the valley paying $0.10 is the idea that maybe the traditional wholesale, Western view of finance and we have a bunch

of silos for asset management and debt and investment, all might disappear. You know, why shouldn't I shouldn't? We be retailing investment as a as a service. So I run into you Christy at a bar and you give me a hint that I told to be investing in healthcare in Asia. And I like go on to Mike ETF would have just plucked off of Amazon and sticks and cash into it. I think there's some real potential there is that other countries are are are looking at, huh? Westar regulations constrains us. So I think it could be intriguing to see a distinction between

those platforms. Allow people to invest and those that are focused really just on the on consumer Retail Services. I'd like to I'd just another lie and say which of the apple pie you can go pay credit card or is a distribution coming from some of these flyers. And I think it's super interesting as I was when I was at a bank I'm just moving my face which is the vision through technology and a true global distribution rights. So I think what they've got is a different perspective. Consumers and small businesses

will be the Interesting Julian, thanks for those insights. Yeah, I think we're seeing it. Like if you look at Ali pay I had to dinner with the woman who is launching out of paying Canada a couple years ago and I made the very big full pot of calling Ali pay a payment Zapped into the alley. Pay is a super lifestyle app and you really see that when they are starting to incorporate, so many different asset aspects into their platform and it's become the pool. Light Styles platform that layers, many different aspects on to it

that we need for intro. They will never be a big enough to cover the wild things. Did you do baby Baltimore spray around leave early so you'll probably end up with several thousand platform. If I don't pay it again being used for different different, different types of people in the world. It's really important. Please pack of the need for open Steins and connectivity between us platforms. Well that's that's a great Point. Michael, and I might point to the whole interoperability or lack thereof with the Apple platform because they

decided their strategies because they want to become Z. It don't look very self-supporting isolated you know, all be it on this end on the omnipotent platform. So being to see how that evolves. Can I? Yes yes and just wanted to the point you guys I think it's quite interesting to look at these platforms and see how some of them have been insisting on selling their hardware and involves collecting data and canoe, and a bling payments and other transactions to their own hardware and

others that are much more Hardware diagnostic. If you know, the comparison would be Google vs apple here. And it's really interesting to see how come some of those choices. At different points of focus, have really kind of limited the interoperability of these platforms. Yep. No absolutely is going to be an interesting thing, I'm moving forward and it'll be interesting to see if they're Regulators step in at all to start encouraging, more opportunity to some level or another We're getting close to the end of our time now in 10 minutes

left. So I'd like to look a few years forward in and I'm certain we've all seen many Innovations in the area of digital payments in the past two years. But it's guarantee that many more are to come. What I'd like to suggest as we get each of you to spare what Innovations, you might expect to see over the next few years and how current players and users might be impacted in the various markets and going to give each of you two minutes, he would like to start Michael. Yeah, I'll start actually

it's I'm terrible at predicting, these Hills, William Gibson, quotes of a distributed future. Personally, if if you had to look at Innovation, I go back to the central bank, digital currencies. I believe that these are coming and I think they will be underwhelming in one way, it really won't particularly change the payment seen much for the consumer, you'll have a bank account with, with effectively with the government and the government will find this very useful in a post coronavirus negative interest rates to certain

moneys to you at cetera. I think we're going to be overwhelming. That was his is in relation to credit. The government has effectively seize the reins of credit and this will lead to a huge discussion which probably should have been the discussion we held after the financial crisis of 2007 and 8 on what is the role of credit in a modern economy and I believe that the real change There could be used for the fractional, Reserve banking, getting a serious kick in the teeth or perhaps even its demise. So whilst people have been talkin about the demise of banking because of better payment services

with which hasn't really happened. It's only been at The Fringe of some International payments. The real deathblow might come from a central bank, digital currency where Society begins to question. Why is it that we give thanks a special privilege over what is effectively our own tax credits? Well, thanks for that. Michael Julian. Did you want to give us some thoughts where you see this going on? Underneath some plywood, give you. So we can see more examples of the transaction

that is going to be super important. I think we should stop talking about the technology and stop talkin about the use cases, really help consumers and businesses doing payments. Better shape up more efficiently and whether it's nice I or Production Technologies to the public and to businesses. And we need to think about how we really focus on the customer. And I think, if we look at real time payment, You touched on a couple of times already. He's going to drive the

next generation of Ben Tackett I'm weather like is going to be digital currencies in my opinion. All very exciting and Innovative companies and ideas that start the next generation of used plastic crate some amazing. Inventions of Lincoln to exchange in two different Technologies and create something for concealing, a gun for $50 and that is involved. I love it. If you build it, they will come just like the internet 30 years ago. No one knew at the time that we're going to be doing

Facebook and and Amazon on the internet. So it was just something that way we can see you then. Okay, let's see where this goes. Awesome. Digital money going in the future when I see is the emergence of an Internet of value. I mean by that is, I networked all changing payments about you, wild Wyatt where the way buddy will move with shift, from being a fairly low volume with my trunks about you moving back and forth around the world. Very very, very high volume of my criminal, the most happening in

the pointed out, driving at the immediate flow through the Mexican, many more models without looking for food at that tonight. So I think about it, which is much more intrigued with how well he's working. I think the whole we think and how we can sit on the quickest and how we can set up a funding payments around the world, to make them far more efficient are they off today? Excellent. Thank you. Marcus running out of time, but we got time. Please have the last word tell us where you see the future of money going. Thank you very much to say, I will be very brief. I agree, even stay with the kind

of list that, you know, we're going to see how much more as seamless integrated payments. And I believe that user convenience is going to be the what will drive the future. And we see if you will see increased Security in payments, much more integration seamless payment, same as you say, large volumes across the world. And Sam also would like to point out the role of artificial intelligence in both sides of increasing security as well as you know, they making a payment smoother with new ways to pay and also, you know, payments and credit being integrated into the activity that we are

doing. So we're not going to be dealing with payments and if we need credit separately, but it will all be as one to know, one part of a user experience, like, a life experience that you might have, like, buying a house or buying something else, right? So overalls A good future and lots of Innovations for user convenience. Thanks so much. See, not why we had absolutely fabulous discussion with him really, really can insights. Just to recap, we talked a lot about interoperability and standards and how they should play a

key role going forward, both domestically as well as globally. We talked about seamless, an embedded payments and how they will help to improve the customer experience. And certainly within the context of platforms and platforms will also be interesting to see how they evolved, where they interoperable or not, with other platforms, and how they interact with their users at real-time payments driving, send text, Julie, and I love your points on on. Where we see the Innovations coming there and sit with us in Texarkana to lead the way

there, that digital currency. And also a really interesting aspect that continues to evolve from the technology perspective as well as their regulatory in the central bank's in the end Independence. But I like the also, the point of the global internet of value in AI, playing a big part of that, how do we continue to add value? Given the technology that we've got? But also in this new covid-19 and environment, how can we improve? Our health, our humanitarian aspects but also

the delivery of services and products and they went exciting ways. So I'd like to thank each of the palace, you know, are always kind from side business school. Michael Minelli from the end group. I hope I got that right there from Gemini, Marcus Church, preacher from Ripa, leave all had some fat, fabulous and sweats. And I also want to thank Innovative Finance for organizing and hosting this and suggest that all of our listeners. Join us for some other great sessions during UK fintech week. They will be

concealing over the next 10 days or so and you can go to the Innovative Finance website to find out more in to sign up for those that you require preregistration at least and I look forward to seeing all of you who are listening here somewhere virtually in the clouds themselves. Thanks very much everybody. Thank you, Christy.

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