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UKFW 2020
April 21, 2020, Online, London, United Kingdom
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Video Panel Discussion: How has FinTech changed the way we manage our money?
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  • Description
  • Transcript
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About speakers

Nikolai Hack
Head of Strategy at Nucoro
Rafael Plantier
Head of UK & Ireland at Tink
Maex Ament
Board Member at Hypatos
James Black
Partner at Hogan Lovells
Tom Hay
VP PayTech at Curve

15 wholehearted years of Banking experience across Issuing, Acquiring, Cash Management and Open Banking; in emerging & established markets; whilst forging teams and partnerships towards reliable, high-frequency, low-cost and programmable solutions for the user. ✊

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Serial FinTech entrepreneur, Markus Ament, or Maex as he is known, has led many companies from early-stage startups to global leaders, loved by thousands worldwide. Maex is advising a variety of companies, such as HighRadius, the market-leading provider of software for the office of the CFO for companies globally, the German crypto custody startup Finoa and several other enterprise, payment, and fintech players. He currently lives between San Francisco and Madrid.

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Partner in the Regulated Payments, Banking and Lending team at Hogan Lovells. I specialise in the regulated consumer and SME market sectors, with a particular focus on consumer credit and payments. Specialties: Wholesale, Commercial and Retail Banking; Payment Services; Consumer Credit; Regulated mortgages; E-Money; Part VII transfers; Unfair Terms/TCF; Commercial & Prepaid Card distribution agreements; Co-branded credit card agreements.

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A payments expert with in-depth understanding of information technology, Tom has designed cutting edge real time payment solutions which are used by Tier 1 banks and by national clearing system operators. Delighted to be part of the fintech revolution, using technology to deliver great user experiences and business value.

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About the talk

A discussion with several of Europe’s leading FinTech's on the topic of how banking technology is evolving to have a significant, sustained impact on how people manage their finances.

Speakers:

Nikolai Hack, Head of Strategy and Partnerships, Nucoro

Rafael Plantier, Country Manager, UK & Ireland, Tink

Maex Ament, Vice Chair, Earnd and Greensill

James Black, Partner, Hogan Lovells

Tom Hay, Head of Paytech, Curve

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I will go lie now. SM s820l changed the way that we manage our money. So I'm really pleased to be joined by the people who work in the world is now say quickly introduced the two days, I know I'm James Blunt. I'm at all during the parents of sepsis to United levels I'm doing today. By Nikolai hack who's the head of stretching Partnerships require a thousand savings investment. Buy raffle puncture. You can all them country manager to take a year. Can a convention tax form from hey VP of paycheck at cuz I know the

office and we will count in one situation. IMAX almonds. Is there anyone at home? Max is at Greenfield tournament. 2019 to fill that Consumer Affair in which is pulled and I'm supervisor on demand PlayStation 4 employees worldwide, including the NHS. And it's okay, I'm looking forward to this discussion. Say, thank you for joining us with my last question and we had so far as money as a lawyer question, everything. My first question for you is a spintech change, the way that we manage our money. Record me to kick us

off. Thank you for having James Fortune. Dear future me to analyze one, Assumption of the question. Which is, why does everyone manage their money in? And I think the reality is we have people in a spectrum between not managing at, all right? You can prior to Sea-Tac to you who you could argue a financial often among the other and what would it be? If we were actually that experts manage your money in what I think that has done is to move people across that Spectrum. So from people who do not really manage, your money weren't able to in La for several reasons, you know, it is actually quite

complex. We are bounded by no rationality time bandwidth. And then across the Spectrum, you know, some people who are, you know, managing about you. It's doing some form of investment thinking about their future. I think she tacos be all ready able to move them across. That Spectrum, taking more actions on those insights. You can actually look at all of our business. This year as facilitators into that in a few drinks perspective, in doing a complication being stationed there, a product to help all the

businesses under they finance it so that people will ultimately have a full view of their finances. So I think what we have been most successful in is to move to back off at Spectrum. So I don't think it's a, it's a so far. There's a long way to go, but I think there's been a miserable achievement already. That picture of Nick as well. Yeah. Absolutely. Nothing's changed where you're going to be doing one or two things to do. Something better to lower price or the same thing at the same

price, right? So we look at the whole host of challenges that are literally challenging, of course, the way in in gauge with their money. So there is clearly and there are different ways of doing things and I believe it is driven by a spillover from other sectors. Like, in a retail where, you know, at least 10 years ago and I'll meet you at where, you know, I'm the mom dreaming and, and then become something of all you and yours change completely. 10 to 5 years more than the last 20 to 2:15 or so if you could tell you had always seen, you have availability and you have a

host of different pricing models, and I think now and it was chicken and ask question of what was their first Supply order? The mom that has changed. I think you also saw different ways of engaging and consumer services Melba spills over in in heading to FX. And then, of course, the supply follows from that and then we are all kind of a testament to the fact that goes Salem Oregon from Max and Ruby Max. And the office is looking for people to actually get hold of that money and a little bit sooner

successfully. Fintech has already changed the way. We manage our money. Are we just at the tip of the iceberg? Went to Nicholas point. So fintech 2008-2009, whenever it started, the latest of the Innovation Way you think about it? I'm getting books, very unregulated, fairly easy to put it to put it online, they're on for 25 years, a very successful as we all know what it what what, what, what happened to that, but I'll give you started first, and now we cracked the hottest enough. And that's the highly regulated final space, and it just

a little bit harder. That's why we picked it late, but we getting so busy, but the intake industry in general, but by but not going out for the singer to hold by picking areas individual areas. I think I'm bungling is to term picking individual areas where we can do. Other than that, the status quo in the banks and I'm sorry if I leave it in the back and banks at times, but, don't mean it that way, but like, we pick the things that we can do better wise Pig Robinhood investing picture

in there so many and then we rebounded it back together now, and like, from that little thing of teacher and I'll become a bank. Again, that is an interesting observation and poop to bake a durned. I will change it away, are improving the way. How people deal with that money. I mean, obviously, that's the reason why I do what I do, because I truly believe that they giving people access to that money and not just that mom sent because that's how it happens. Now, because we ended up software 50 years ago but give them access to that money whenever they need it. For free, is

something that changes how they bunch of old enough going into debt and how they live their life. So yeah, I think we would we make pretty good progress. An interesting that both things can be true at the same time where we can wait, we can be making a lot of a significant at the tip of the iceberg Journey from my perspective, know how many people were our financial products and arguably has a long way to go there as well? Even though there's a long way to go.

Picking up nikolai's point, we mobilize ourselves, explicitly on platforms from the begin, the street, like Spotify on Netflix. And what we, what we have seen happening in the financial space is fragmentation. Find the movies and music, where the big beasts started getting the lunch eaten by a smaller contenders in Independence, and new entrants were enabled by technology. Sew-in in the side of people, still do, what they've always done, they still watch TV

but now they watch them on demand as bolts that so well, they want when they want it on whatever device they want. And we seem to be the same in the financial space. So there is suddenly walks of Niche players, who picking up cherry picking particular areas know what? We're really good at Landing. We're really good at cetera and being able to bring those ol, I'm just single umbrella and make them available in the same place. At the same time. Is it is really, what would I have to do to

allow people to see him? Simon save that money over my place. Yeah. I think that's not happy about and I'm sure it's something that you is with me not when Max was talking about unbundling in rebounding that that is exactly what character is Twilight today with and with payments generally safe it's not good and interesting place to just stop the my next question which is Has been sacked changed the way that we manage our money or it is it actually more about changing the way that we stink about money and our relationship

with money? I think that is a good place to stop because cuz business model is based on challenging it the banks and say he was kind of customer. You keep your bank account but you use your card account to come back and save some and took the cake a cell phone. Sure. I don't think, but some The people want to do different things that I mean I still have to be in the same desires. So, fintech, even the second about as changing the way, the people manage their money and it's much more about enablement. So Enablement, the simplification allowing people to do things

that they they they could not previously do either because it was just too difficult in terms of the bureaucracy that you have to go through in a long sign up process has to open a new account, or it was, it was technically too difficult. So I think that some simplification is it is absolutely hate of us and giving people the choice to transact with who they want to, when they want to ban in a really, really simple way. And so I know you bring people to two amounts of money, back to roll them, make you and manage your money better. That they don't have some hot. Have any thoughts

on that? I can find at 2 that I mean, what would we do it? Or just giving people existed are to grow? Celery, whenever they need it. Like there are ancillary the, that is not yet on that bank account. Instead of waiting till mom's and effect alone of knowing of Justice, knowing how much are earned at any point in time of the month and the fact that I can access it if I wanted it or if it's an emergency I needed that changes how people think about that money about their life will give them a level of security so absolutely argue that change the way the syntax. And this is just one of many

examples that we all experienced in the past that the intake, the technology here, change the way people, behave and feel on something I mentioned earlier on how You know, being on a trail ride later in the street, we have arbitrary limits are constraints on or uneven like software Legacy on how financial services are deployed including like how how we pay people and things from from the last 10-15 years is is The Stance of challenging those constraints. Some of them are there for good reason and

financial regulation, for very good reasons. Some I think there's been a lot of unintended consequences to to ultimately how this is, how provision happen to be. By the way, I think a lot of financial innovation has been established bank has been to take a step back and challenge that. And I think that's Fallout 4 regulate, especially the UK, where you seen is very proactive approach, you looking at these constraints and then, like the root causes what is really

depended on those constraints. Good point. I mean, if I may just want invite one thing, I've been 3 years and in Crazy crypto land, which was amazing in Berlin and one of the things, some of us did remember like 2017. So crazy when everybody could invest in tokens, and we can argue whether this is go to bed, but it was the definition of changing something. That is actually nuns and regulation that exist like that accredited, investor, the definition where you already rich and that's why you are a key, ok, to invest in companies. Otherwise you can

I see all the idea of an idea to challenge that regulation run. All right. And I'm saying that but just just telling you that that gave me hope. Mmm, example of how can we chat with you, some strength? If I call my bank today and I'm account holder and I say, hey, I'm opening a business. I want, I want to use the same bank. I'm starting a new business, I just opened and you can actually do that through companies. How super quickly I am very likely put into a onboarding process.

That is exactly like if I weigh if I had never worked with these things before Tony goes, there is today a very big Valley between retail and Commercial banks for Circle reasons, dependency on both the private sector in the public sector, things in the private sector. And one of the emerging emerging use of open banking to breach those gaps. So I ate bacon group within its own group just when able The user experience where hey, you know, Nikolai do you shower, you can send sharing your,

your personal information from the retail bank, to the commercial bank, so that you can be on board it while they walk. We're not solving the underlying issues. We're solving the user experience, something that we can see across from that date. Again, take me to stop biking thinking about, this one's strength and finger peas that way for us to sold. At least the user experience is not the underlying truth cuz I'd like to come back to call Nate about right now. Have weather fundamentally changed. I

don't think they have, like, four people still have your goals and objectives effects with your friends. There's one way to achieve the microwave to get to the means to an end. I think it's important to must not forget that at times, but I want to adjust now. I know there is a couple of things. Soul considerably better than incumbents but it has to do with speaking of barriers of Entry Mexico, regulations of truffles consumer trust and Bets with bangs and established players are extremely expensive. Trust the reliability and is reflected in something for your thick head, long

relationships, that that play a client's have with their bank or your family have with her bank. And I also think that because even though many people will a well-known established organizations more with their, in a month, I think it's it's reflected in the account balances, that you see, you should come down and visit many of the challenges of being. So, because that's not going to change over time and probably said, they are exceptional. Are, you know, the the biggest of the biggest Tech players, know, the apples into Google and Amazon but the That sector

is also hard to emulate because while you can by simplifying things that you can buy Innovation through by and pick them up, she gets really difficult to buy stuff every interesting point reply. And I guess what I want is to what extent. We think that the trust that it is joined by some vents in Long X is actually even even though many would thank you to let you know, that is a very heavily regulated aims to unite as a loss of supervision United that because of that information

on that your money is going to be Patty's Day. Say it down to that. Does not actually give them such a problem in the prophetic. So you enjoy the same level of trust is encumbrance. You need to submit to increased regulation but may in turn actually stifle the very invention that makes you able to feed the change in environment, your money. It's the trust issue. About the, I'm the one of the gray hair. I guess it changed over the last 10 years. So when we

started picking 2000, the banks were still the Extreme be safe and everything is perfect 2008-9. I think it was didn't forget what happens. I'm just be honest here. It was a pretty much a pretty substantial. Where was detlef? So good marketing. After 10 years people tend to forget a little bit but not completely. So I think we we do have opening it because nobody is as happy with the bank's anymore and feels I say. So this is just as a starting point

is better than 20 years ago from Wait, we discussed a lock that I'll Trust you know that make you look simply the currency of over making me stressed because everything starts with the consumer or the business of sharing information or any shaving, a transfer and sometimes and we often talk about trust being versus National or Global to them and I think this is a strange and we did. We have seen May perhaps in some larger institutions losing trust some upstart do you trust overtime? I don't think the point OKC is regulation try

who got trust? I would challenge that in that. I think we have a lot of regulator. The teeth that doesn't that if we survey people, I don't think they over entrust the agent and I'm not know, specifically on on Financial Services is true for a lot. And also Kentucky's is largely unregulated by many feet. Acts are in the three months to Shannon's or in open bank. You know, we have a confirmation of Human Service service is all of that. Although these are regulatory licenses This is an ecosystem

where she may be solving a Consumer Finance problem. And while they are dealing with that they are using safe to Fulton Bank in in using the regulated activity around someone else for a different part of your text back so I can go to sports. Be interesting to see if this is true are now than ever before. Is that you have these ecosystem of Partnerships where where people are, more narrowly focused on their activity which which may or may not be regulated while relying on others to do in

their respective regulated activity. I think regulation is is very much a two edged sword. Probably fair to say that PSD to buy opening up, bang Chang, has an able to hold class of up. Index coming today, including thing than many others. So in that sense that has been some very Progressive regulation in the financial services face. I would say those that, but it's still more to be done in the UK has been take. Is it, is it, is it time to her and really does

need continuing support from the regulator, you can throw out. There are areas in in suddenly, we experience in terms of fair and reasonable access to payment, that works where there is Crystal more regulatory support needed to break down. Those barriers to entry, that were mentioned earlier and I believe the rug Khalifa. Independent Financial strategic review. So, I hope that that that woman of the points that comes out of that is the ongoing regulatory support. I

tend to personally find myself believe in me now and in the market forces and then, you know, by by means of competition will be out the bad apples of a long-term while also being a fully aware of the fact that we work in this industry. I have a lot of time to engage with the difference in the average person just because I was much younger and they're like the side effects of Labor. Negative negative rating on by having very, very deep mode to know if of regulatory Frameworks to Donita Wade through before, you're able to to be in

this business of Banking and Financial Services. I think it's practically having myself gone through the BBB, the exercise of building, a firm, got regulated, and we had to get ready for approval and then the public will think about your proposition and related to any of those areas sometimes. And then of course in in on big organizations, you have estimates ranging from Global Financial Services players 2020, 5% of all work, no revolving around Regulatory and compliance. That's supposed to be something that I thought it was 25. People can engage in, or possibly pay for

I-70. Going through it first time of interest in exercise equipment. Ashley Yep. I think those are really good points. And obviously, I'm saying is, is one of the areas where there's a very, very high regulatory barriers to entry. And that one of the reasons that that have to say much regulatory support two to help challenges much intervention from fishing and markets Authority. For example, so you can come to the banks to give out. Customers 2 to change a box and has really good example of why I had too much regulation in

a bad thing because it becomes apparent when she and South Bend Tech. We've already discussed, a few of the reasons why insect is better placed than incumbents to change. The way, we manage our money. One of those. Definitely, it is that it has a typically, don't say regulations in something convinced. It's a challenging and set some Quantum quotes in areas in which context comes after a moose with a different mindset, which that may be related to not coming at it from a compliance mindset. But from a customer that comes on

about the secretary, from banking, the beneath the first fast and furious and your ex and Did you say just to talk us through that for a minute and and how how things that can use the different weapons in it? Don't take the challenge incumbents and I feel a lot of innovation that happens if you attack our things that existing financial services. But on the highest standoff sophistication of financial services in will just weren't available from any other company that we spoke about here.

How late he developed corporate treasury Works, where you have a programmatic solution, full visibility of all assets and liabilities. There's a lot of automation, there's a lot of there's a lot of things that are done for the treasury team so that they can focus on finance and I think That is the future for people. So we know who you went to your consent so that an application can Pooh font from different continents, that bathroom exhaust fans on the house. Phone banking recall that notion of pulling better this today. And

you know why, you could argue that open banking has existed since the 1970s, because corporations can use this thing by Swift going to 9:40, then 9:42 to get in Friday, and in, and it'll be balances The Innovation here. And I think this is why there are we have reason to be excited that we're now able to do that sort of thing in a much more responsive way you were moving from these batch and faulty to be on these processes to a real-time API back across to know 9,000 students in in Europe.

And we're making that more accessible and sometimes two a, you know, I think we work with the national champions of financial services. Big banking group pipe to the larger context of the emergency contacts in walk, walk the product so that these things can take them in different ways. And I think that's that's what you see she's doing. Well, is look again, looking at, what is the highest and Financial finance in general? Looking at what are the problems that that was mostly souls for people with making that? You know, that complexity easier and making that high input

to two people and businesses? That sings with makeup on one of the points that you talked about doing things in real time. And I think that's a very important. What Kentucky is doing and IMAX refer to that, in terms of allowing you to see you, what, your salary positions right now and down. Right now, I remember why you way before Finn Thai Cuisine or involved in rolling out ATMs in Romania. And you could see the change in people's behavior because when we first deployed them on the Friday, every would just pick you up at the IDM drawers,

all of my money as they will white patent prints of getting it from the ATM and then gradually, they realize, wait a minute, I don't have to do this anymore, I can go and draw what I want when I want it. Instead of an agent and much more relaxed. And so bring that for the forward. Today I think that is is is also an important ingredient in tank, so I can cook one. One of our main changes versus traditional prepaid causes is it you don't have to do anything to have load a hundred pounds into you're

just in time. I'm similarly with of credit, you don't have to think you can make it but just so you know what? I'm strapped for cash this month, I'll put that TV that I bought on a credit you can. So that kind of real time on demand respect is very, very important for infection and I want better management. I really like that point on the ignoble. You mention about the thinking, for the customer and why I think that's one area where it would have been

because of your head of the incumbent and also, you know, having a benefit of being free from all of the sticks there, not doing anything to get to. What are these people want? They want to go on a honeymoon after they retire when they're 60 65. And even though I met most of the major High Street Banks website, at the moment with that mindset of having a goal that you want to achieve it then. What are you presented within? I actually, I looked at it because it's something. What do you think? You click on say this. And then this comes after you. Click on everyday, favorite

regular cellular report saver. Easy access dating online. Bonus saving Premier saver, saving bonds. The list goes on, this is the solution is presented with with that you had in mind if I use our journey last thing I was thinking about the cost of my wedding two years from now and how I can save up for that and then I get 10, acronyms mean, nothing to me, right? You're letting the consumer, do a whole lot of the figuring out in the mental break in when it's, it's really, you should be doing that. So, being able to think Client First and find that lets you build better product. I think

that all he has to do also with who built these propositions. Some people in banks are bankers and they build propositions of something which was very attractive for all the people in finance. But if that's not the case with an experience and fight like that, Thank you, honey. Let me just one thing at the difference already stopped. And I think with the word proposition where, this product, where I had to realize, like I mean, in banking, very often the proposition is used like if I will admit until a year

ago, that barely crossed my mind to talk about prepositions in infant text in software. So that was, there was one thing where there's a path dependency. There are two these organizations right through a lot of large Banks today, do for yearly releases. I Am 103 business release and then one right before he leaves, maybe they'll do six that that's true for unlike very large banking group's day. If you if you compare that to building software and organizational, I think

our parents to everyone on the call here. We do 12 production release his every single day. Like 12 times in a bridge changing code in production and in that is the end S Y. Part of the reason why these main groups are trying to move to the cloud is moving to bake as a service provider so that they can break away from the staff dependency on. Having this big releases in it is less stable. To have these few release is that in a year, like this releases in your bed in your business on, on on that release going.

Well, rolling. Back is really hard texting that into a possible. So there is a real parrot that come here or, you know, organizations that are bar in the in the cloud with, you know, very like generally agile, engineering teams and are in a largely Ingenuity. Lateralization to organizations that were built before softer and softer really existed or lesbian. All of the servicing and then, you know, bills on that actually have Cobalt code base is running still from from

96 to 1917. That, that is true for a lot. A lot of banking groups in and it is really hard. I, I appreciate how, you know, I work with several of such group that is extremely hard for people in these dishes to make that leap. But they are all saying different stages, but all of them on that journey of making that change. Thank you. I'm just going to ask my next question is just a reminder of prompt to utilize would change if there is a Q&A functional had said, if anyone wants to submit the right

questions, please, he's not fussing and submit and then we'll try and take a little bit of time at the end on my way to store an oxidized questions for. You have to some extent. Rather we went ahead and stopped with Max and statement and its right. Place the employer's to have employees to 2,000 calories a day, In the context of an helping people, to manage my money, as a single most counterintuitive that you do that, by giving them more access to that money roll in

the blast and say, how how do you connect a Craig Mack question, why is it that you think letting people spend the money quicker? It is the best way to help them manage their money back. There's a lot to say that first one instacart or almost a condescending for you. That if you give people that money, but you daren't their money, they work, the whole month to the bar and mode a waste of money, and it's just no studies or another system. What to do, if you get people that money, they managed it. So that's the first one

but I understand. You you that that's pushback comes and we get it in the sales process for many, many companies understandably. Because that's that's too much, it's just not true. We put put things in place to for those corporate that want to protect. And please, we put things in place and those weeds from certain thresholds that can only be drawn down. Very simple of his leave to leveraging open banking to see when the big-ticket it's typically mom's and to not allow them to do more than Venice reasonable. Again on what's reasonable, would you find that

what else help. I mean the first thing that helps people to manage their finances or to budget is not being financially stressed to not be in debt to not have to go to a payday loan shop to the form along guys off the world and knowing that I just for 200 box next month, I got to pay back three hundred bucks that distress. So I think just did that the fact that I know I Take the money in an emergency that I learned. It's relieving so much stress and then helps and heads in return, by the way. And that's why the employer helps employers because even though he's a

less stress of a reason more happy, there's less sick days, there's been a retention, I mean, everybody wins and that's, that's why we do Thank you, Mike. I would like to say I was up since Liberty provocative, I wasn't suggesting that people are financially and as she needs me, and again, being what we, what we do here a lot and I like what you had from Max's. The insect has already successfully is allowing users to take control and equally. I am I'm

thinking back to you because I said just now about thinking food customer and I love this again. Biking proposition music on Route 7 pounds, but doing things for the customer and Changing Behavior by taking away. Controller trigger automation, what do you think is the the real downside is it to take control away from customers and do things full of them, minus the money on their behalf, or is it to give them access to the money so that they can do it themselves? Thanks for the invite. I

feel that we're a society in the point of discussing, a lot of things are around the ethics of Technology. You know, explainability of machine learning and I think a fair question to make, I would argue that I don't see any application that is effectively removing control. I think going back to the treasury analogy. You know what the treasurer would not say that his left or he, or she even less control of their respective treasury by having no. No pulling turned on for the

same way. That if I mean if I decide to invest and I want to use and rather than every end of the day look and how the S&P 500 moved in Dallas in my portfolio. If I say, I just want to invest in an index fund. Alright, I would argue that I'm still very much in control of my investments even though there's a lot of automation happening there. So, and I think this is really important because financial services are actually simple like to what we were discussing earlier. Like people still want to do pretty much the same things, if you think about a mortgage,

it is logically simple. Know that I'll, I'll, I'll take a loan to buy an outfit. That outfit is the praise. The primary backing up that loan and that is a long-term loan and there are mechanisms to fix the right now and make the right there about the expense, but are potential services are operationally complex. If I actually go on and say now, I want my mortgage starting from zero. The journey can be grueling and I think that's the opportunity opportunity around automation is one where there is no

no less controlling. The bank and everything. He's actually starts with a request of consent. So, you know, the hours for most point but rather than through these are a lot of people can make better sense of their own finances and make their decision comparison to generally understand that. But, you know, anticipating their their their paycheck is cheaper than a payday loan is not or like a traditional is not is not that straightforward play. The regulations around this, where we asked our service providers to display information

assets and why. But I would argue that he's still part for everyone and I'm not even ourselves. If we were to generally compare, Work. And in that thing, that's a fantastic opportunity for for technology to again alternates, create Clarity, and create energy. So, great a way for you to do to actually make the changes you want to make without relinquishing control. Yeah, thanks. Auntie. And I couldn't agree more on mortgage applications and if you show, you show me someone who said they enjoyed making my mortgage application. I'll

show you a line section and difficult relationships, with, with incumbents proudly, say Nikolai pants. First, why, what why is it that you think it's rather than competing with them directly is is the best way to achieve Challenge and how people manage their money. Good question. Yes, I think about why we all working on these problems, but it's also about more than that goes up to our mission statement or others are truly believe in. You know that there are ways in which this can

be achieved. And so if we say okay, what's the best to make it happen? If the incumbent innovation of us, the Challenger, get distribution. And I tend to think it's a bit more of the former because of what we mentioned before then let them the most under that the barriers of your truck and regulation to keep you from entering this market. So I think there's a Actually, I think rape is one of them, which is why I have to buy it for my trust. So, if we believe it, that's true. We think you should be. No respect is the principal of compared to the boss that, you know, bags are best

suited to focus on building long, lasting battery, powered very deep relationships with our clients with a distribution bit. And then, operating organization in right now, and I'm not complying with the rules and Regulation, and we are best to the truth to Bill text Anna. We're not bound by the constraints that you have is an organization of the people. You are able to attract in the mindset to get into the organization. So we can't allow them to run their business and product at scale in Elwood low-cost, highly automated with a quick speed to Market. In quicker than

they could ever hope to achieve. So, you know, combined the best of the Two Worlds and it's nothing but you get the best consumer bubble submissive. Yeah, I think it's a win-win for place like you and the furniture institutions but my supposedly it's a big wind second season. The client as well as large feedback like they fall. And then we have a thousand developers. The reason why it's important that same package is able to partner with large institutions because I think I honestly think that is the shortest path to making a real impact on society. And when we,

when we just the other day, we have been able to partnership with operation in another European country. That's 30 million people. Then I'll have access to to, no, I agree in the old are come to my place. That's more than all of the sum of all new Banks, two together. And in, And we see that over and over and not get, no, truly, this will change. And we're seeing a lot of what we call a challenger Banks, gaining ground and expanding, but the reality is that Society stew very much using

large institutions and I think we will be more effective by enabling access to everyone at 4:40 to be naughty naughty Yeah, I think it is amazing woman and say we can head from from Nicola, cannabis, guess what? One of those context that is able to stand on his own two feet and improperly compete and his money, where his mouth is. So you kind of said she promotes equality bank cards but when it comes to the transactions, directions, to pulse straight, through to dandelion background. So,

as long as the customers can still make any payment from that bank, that is using your cup, what do you say the benefits of using that car, rather than just using the highest paid bank card? Is it it's a good question. And I guess first looking at, looking at the banks themselves, sometimes when Banks here about 2, they said, wait, wait a minute covid-19 Southern that because quite quickly Banks realize that there are benefits to the consumers and hence themselves of using the population. So just give some

examples. Whichever called you put in your, in your wallet, you automatically get the come state-of-the-art, you act. So, because about office. So even if you're using a very traditional and with a bit of a clunky, you know, you got this really small, their benefits like the cash. So we offer cash-back, Reward Points rather spend within retailers, which the customer, select the customer service rewards, irrespective of, which, I thought they were put into the wallet, so it benefits to the

thing. She was bought from apart from those benefits. Again, if it's about controlling management. So one of our TV is it is big but we go back in time. So if you spend on the particular I'm being caught and then you think I actually I put on my debit card credit card again this week and next month, then you can do go back in time and move that purchase off of one, God Amun to another. And we're, we're currently in the process of rolling out loyalty as well. So, Loyalty cards also can be put into your wallet. So, and it is very much about

about time your gation about control about putting everything in one place and Sometimes people compare has to Applebees. Applebee's. It is. Well, it. You just the same know we offer all these additional benefits. I didn't pack. What we find it is that the majority of all customers, I think around 75 per-cent, actually load that curve called into the Apple pay or Google Play wallet. So they suppose, so yeah. It it's some it's about giving people more choice and

animal control. Great. Thank you so much left to deal with some questions that have been raised by the audience and say some things that we've explored in lost. Our it in particular, the whole concept and Reba and save. These propositions opposition opposition, could I use more comfortable using digital channels and can you potentially moving and rebound? Fling back to you face-to-face human chattels. Can we force a feature where in Texas if a whole from from the internet, in the car down into physical bronze Based

Services and an infection around, the grounds has access Simplicity and choice which are obviously some of the key things in a defensive position. Okay, so I think we can, we can draw a parallel with Amazon Amazon. Yeah. We're at with the first digital retailers are, and everything was easy, and then a couple years ago, they were fresh and grocery stores in the US. And now that partnering with Morrisons supermarket in in, in the UK to deliver those physical experiences. So I don't see fintex, actually opening up, going to you and seek up on me on the High Street, but I

definitely see possibilities infanttech Paul rank with existing bricks-and-mortar out. I solve a Jason spaces to the two financial services and using those kind of relationships. Deliver services to people who are less comfortable with that with digital channels. Now is probably not the best. How are they going to answer this question, right? I feel that there's a change in of what one would expect off the High Street Bank branch. For example, I feel that we're coming out of this including workspace,

right? We were the changes in how the office is changing. Now given the people coming together, maybe the office will be a place for people to be more connected and in the openly discussing things I could have done, would be true for for High Street Banks and and branches and in all the physical spaces. So actually, I think I can be a part of that. I feel we will be more about No direct user experience of analyzing and Contracting the services. And I know, I wouldn't be surprised if

the banks for today. Don't have a present actually end up having one, but one that is much different from, from the bank branch, right? They they don't have that passed Legacy. The past dependency of actually owning or lending renting know, hundreds of our branches across the country. But he may actually want to have a presence where they can Mark directly interface with people. Not only, because people may not be comfortable for chance, cuz I think that's changing a lot. I think of it accelerated that, but rather, because that is simply a different experience. I would I

would question whether whether this is is that would happen. If in Texas if they would be a square shop somewhere, if they would be for marketing purposes or tools for for interaction with people because the generation as you just said, rough up the generation is growing up right now. Accelerated by covid-19 my daughter's never saw a bank from the inside so I don't think they will take me to Southern financial services will be for them to read it. True. That's that's how I see that list. I got just about the time for one more question

and say they're interested want to hear that Mighty big place to bring the song. We won't happen to wind as living phone out for all those insects and some even our list that maybe it was just some thoughts on vacations for fintech, generally of my accounts collapse. I mean, one thing. Think about is a big thumb and comes back to one of my earlier Point. Actually how I do not believe in Market forces at such also being quite appropriate to to weed out the bad apples in the basket. Like 30

yr, old has had extremely close ties with a German regulator, the dolphin actually for quite a while to spend almost wirecard also using that against allegations of what then later turned out to be exactly true. Of course I'm so I think it's just a lesson and caution also relying too much on systemic levers and we have put into the system of trying to you know it's stablished trust and reliability and I think that's the one she left. I mean, why cops pacifically special

case because of the business and maybe there were signs before they were just overlooked. I think the only democracy by remote for 50 right now is interesting one because you have to press consumer, spending all depressed, physical activity, especially for banks of means you have less revenue from the traditional sources of credit lending. I'll see you need to look for alternative ways to generate revenue and profitability if it rate for interest rates low and will remain low for quite a while. So that's probably more than that. I think will be very interesting to look at

those. Also for Challengers who have the very same sometimes, even exacerbated problem. I think the is, I agree. It's a very special case, anything. I think it's a good thing to being sponsorships and how that happened in the payments business in the station off. Which was one of the other one was I think there's a fair discussion Point around all day thing and all the things are Naturals and I have to pay taxes. Actually, we know how to open banking at easy, way to programmatic, collect

directly from the bank financial information. And actually a way that because it's sister going to send you can actually do that for related parts. So we see if we play back this case and these other stores have that access to, you know, the actual statements coming from these Banks whether that was by this institution or like a related being sponsored and so on, I don't think this would have happened. I think there is, of course, all the team happens in a space. Funny but I think there's an interesting discussion point for all the tea in general about how to make that

more programmatic, scaling based on information received directly from an institution. Say yes, I was on the phone so we can probably spend the rest of the day discussing. What went wrong with my phone. Not from a legal perspective perspective by by the proposition that the greater regulation folded. The banks was something the drawings customer trust and shit and want to call the cruise, was a bank in all of that regulation and supervision failed to prevent the collapse of

these hungry. And with, there's no complications for the rest of the same for me. I think a big lesson was that regulation on a Saturn is most enough, we need, we need more than that. Nothing can load. It comes down to mindset and the way that financial institutions approach what they do for casinos and how we do it. Something got a hold of you have demonstrated today in in abundance, in the fence at Wells, I'm putting the consumer fast wrong with it. Other than that,

I'm safe, just a summer time for me, the, the key messages are taken from you. Donald's today. Sensex has achieved some change the games for cheap more and that the withdrawing that change to greater access improve customer experience is a challenging the traditional notion of trust in bricks-and-mortar financial institutions and improving that But you can take that along and get on with it. I created a little bit to my set, safe. Please me to to thank you for joining us today and

resting from station. I've enjoyed it and I hope you have a very much thank you.

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