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Diversity and Inclusion in a Remote Work World | Arc.dev Remote Career Summit

Michelle Pal
Talent & Operations Partner at Under Armour
+ 3 speakers
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Remote Career Summit 2020
June 25, 2020, Online, USA
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About the talk

Talent leaders and CEOs shared experiences of discrimination experienced by minorities in the workforce. They discussed the importance of time management across time zones, cross-cultural collaboration, and asynchronous communication in a distributed team. They also shared their insights into the impact of diversity and inclusion on organizations, tips for teams wanting to increase their diversity, and how inclusivity moves remote work towards the future.

[Resources]

📝 Notes from this talk: https://bit.ly/3fpO7Py

🌐 Remote Career Summit: https://bit.ly/RCS2020-event

[Speakers]

- Michelle Pal: Talent & Operations Partner at Under Armour

- Darren Buckner: CEO at Workfrom

- Ruben Harris: CEO at Career Karma

- Hosted by Joe Blair: Principal at Cota Capital

[Learn More]

- Arc: https://m.arc.dev/yto

- Under Armour: https://www.underarmour.com/en-us/

- Workfrom: https://workfrom.co/

- Career Karma: https://careerkarma.com/

- Cota Capital: https://www.cotacapital.com/

Arc helps you effortlessly hire world-class remote engineers and teams. Trusted by fast-growing companies including Spotify, Hims, Fivestars, and more. Escape the local talent war with Arc.

About speakers

Michelle Pal
Talent & Operations Partner at Under Armour
Darren Buckner
CEO at Workfrom
Ruben Harris
CEO at Career Karma
Joe Blair
Venture Investor at Cota Capital

People ops leader with passion for diversity, equity, and inclusion. Experience includes building diversity and inclusion foundations and working with emerging talent. Currently leading talent acquisition for MyFitnessPal.

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I'm Darren Buckner. I was leading the remote work movement before it was cool. Now I'm creating the wave others are riding as we build the infrastructure to create cafes in the cloud.

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Ruben Harris is a Bay Area transplant from Atlanta, Georgia where he served as an Advisor for Forge and organized Atlanta's first Healthcare Hackathon. Over the past couple of years, Ruben has worked with academics, organizers, politicians, and union leaders at Hustle, Honor and AltSchool focused on improving their personalized outreach, healthcare and education. Ruben began his technology career working in Partnerships and Sales after writing a viral blog post called Breaking Into Startups about how he moved to San Francisco without a job and landed a position 3 weeks later. After receiving thousands of e-mails asking how to break into tech, Ruben Co-Founded the Breaking Into Startups Podcast to demystify the process, resulting in a social media reach of ~3 million people, 200,000+ downloads, 10,000+ website visits per month, over 100+ reviews on iTunes, a Facebook Community of 10,000+ people, and invitations to be a Contributor for TechCrunch and Black Enterprise. Prior to working in tech, Ruben worked as an Investment Banker focused on Food, Consumer, and Retail companies in Chicago and Atlanta. As a member of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, he recruited others to focus on issues related to food security, climate change, and agriculture. In 2010, Ruben worked on operational improvements for Senior Living Communities after completing a double major in Business Administration and Music. During college, Ruben organized 50+ events for non-profits, athletes, and etc.

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Joe is an investor at Cota Capital, an industry- and stage-agnostic investment firm based in the Bay Area with $1 Billion+ AUM. Joe has worked on deals from Seed through Series B, with a special focus on startups implementing technology to solve real-world problems while leveraging disruptive business models. Joe is also founder and host of the Epic Human Podcast, a podcast featuring risk-takers and high-performers from all walks of life. Outside of investing and podcasting, you can find Joe racing triathlons, practicing yoga, and chasing around his three children.

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Thanks everybody for having us. Thanks the archetype for putting this together and we're excited to talk about diversity, inclusion and remote work. Yeah, I'm Joe, Blair from Kota Capital to be focused age agnostic firm here in the Bay Area. I'm also the founder of distributed Valley and we run semiannual remote start up Xposed kind of feature the entrepreneurs working in the space. I am excited to have an amazing line-up of speakers here today. And and I love like, just to get started. I I'd love if if our panel is here could just briefly introduce themselves to you, are

what you work on and I'll all Alaska. What would just terms in order on Michelle Rubin and then Darren so Michelle, you want to kick things off. There are things about the job MapMyRun in MyFitnessPal. My specialty is focusing on recruiting and hiring processes, and Ruben to talk about first mass Corrections. It's mr. Oxenham program. So they can get high paying jobs in about three or four months. Are we work with about 450 job training programs? What makes our platform unique? Has not only MobyMax you with the right job training. Will you support during the job, the program

for the rest of your life? Now that we have 47 million? People that I want to talk about this because most of the people that are unique perspective on what's going on, no, thank you. Boston Market on. I'll be there in about my haircut founder and CEO of work from Super connector for about workers. We built. What is now? The largest community and community-based platform for finding non-traditional places to work all over the world and every city places to get work done as a remote worker, as an independent professional. And like almost every

business covid-19 is a fact about a month ago we launched. What is now likes her premium Network to connect remote workers with each other, based on the things that they need their objectives or that's hiring learning, find a new teammates. And we do that to a number of ways, based on work style location and other things. So, I'm a smart smart connector for real work. Excellent. Yeah, an All-Star line up here, so just given the context of everything that's happening in the news and across the country were clearly, like not where we want to be from A

diversity inclusion perspective. So I know I want, I want the audience to get to know you all answer to talk about kind of like some of the gaps, right? So I'd love a few. That's if the panels could share up, maybe a personal story or something you experienced, or observed in kind of the realm of discrimination or exclusivity in your career, and how you dealt with it. If it's okay with things being different, right? So I jumped out to me are often not being treated as if I belong in the room for the reasons that I'm there. But that's what, that's something that you

feel very often being the CEO of the company. When I show up in a room, not everybody is going to automatically assume. That's, that's something that I could do something. Then, not something that I do do that, so I'll get a lot of people. Ask me, what are you? Are, you, are you security here or are you helping out with this or help me out with that, right? I'm there for the same reasons as in there and, and that's awesome. I disconnect a lot of folks until you see these things play out over and over again. Especially if, if you are usually one of very few people in a row and in for me,

that's really been the case of the microwave. My career has largely been software before I was a software engineer and I'm self-taught. And so I kind of had this non traditional way of getting there, but before the software Engineers, actually a bouncer in nightclubs. And and so, you know, I seen some of the range of of how people interact professionally, Brooklyn Nets, and a very social side as well, you know, the engineering side in, and it's, it's everywhere. He has very pervasive, it's usually these assumptions of people have and then the things that leads, you don't come from those

assumptions in a way that people are treated. They're excluded summer included because of these assumptions. But those are the kinds of things that I've seen a lot of analysts as long, you know, we we could talk about this for a long time. Yeah. I mean I would I would Echo that sentiment at someone that I graduated from what I say that's the best school. You never heard of it as a small school. With only be 2500 people a lot of time. What school did you go to

reply to travel the message? Okay, you know, that's one thing and then I would say there's a lot of or a GPA. My name is like that. A lot of times people used you care credit score as a judgment for your abilities, so that's not because I'm dumb. I was also in clubs and parties for you make me pretty and I like it when I Help me do what I do it today. That's why I think that I think that if you're in the tech industry, you didn't come from the places that are typical, it's very

difficult for people to assess talent that has no credentials at all. Nothing now that we're in this remote work world, you're going to see like millions and billions of people that didn't go to college. That is a ugly school with most people didn't go to install. Message Cheryl about my personal story as well as well as her and make sure that colored person has check on your back or your to Kennewick. Overall, it's an exhausting experience, altogether,

you. It's just a lot to deal with and I think he's like with that. A lot of people are these frustration. Yeah, absolutely. I don't never liked but I think about it like a white piece of paper naturally. People are going to pay attention to the thing that's different on the page, right? And if people are automatically assuming less of you, or underestimated you, and it should be easy for you to exceed your expectations last e-mail passage when people actually don't think of me as

what I am fully capable of, cuz it's very if it's absolutely go ahead there. A lot of how you make a deal with this person is based on your perspective with it. I think that what often happens for all of us is it where were put into these boxes or were put into you? No positions of people think that we should be in or what not. And it's up to us. This is how we want to necessarily no dress. That in the reality is there are there are a number of disadvantaged by being put into a box right by your peers. And that's certainly a case. But it doesn't mean that those

disadvantages will, I will stop you from being able to reach your full potential. These are the kind of disadvantage is if you want to work to, you know, remove, there's no doubt about it, but it can be a motivator can be a way for you to show and surprised. And, you know, it and and the children ways that they wouldn't accept. And therefore, I drive since it to you in ways that you might, you might enjoy yourself. You know, you really can't, I think Rass these these different situations, what works for you but having to do that in the problem, right? Like having to go that extra mile haven't

touched the crafted differently. Is I think this is what we're trying to get away from and that's one of things. I'm also very excited about with no word is, is he getting people out of these boxes? This is really hard to put people in boxes when you aren't working. I'm in very traditional ways. I wouldn't you know the history that you bring to the table then it really you know doesn't really line up with what you're now. How you're not working. I think that's that's a big a big opportunity for remote work out. That way. Yeah that that's a perfect transitionary cuz the next thing I was going

to ask you guys was really given the context of this remote work Revolution. What do you feel is the impact on diversity inclusion? And how does it, how does it move us towards the the future? We all want to see in this in this, in this category. You have to, I think it's a huge bonus because now, you don't have to move to a big job. Everything, you know, go to San Francisco, some magical place near figure it out. If you don't have to do that, you got to do that anymore. My parents didn't. Like,

even if I wanted to, they can't do that. You don't even know. That's what I'm what I would say though, that I give a lot in the future work with that, but I don't hear a lot in. A lot of the rooms would be very very important for people to understand is how to develop their riding skills have been tested to be able to. I think Michelle was talking about the way you communicate. The lingo like the financial World lingo. It's hard enough to do that verbally but

doing it to rot in this difficult to understand, how to drop the right about here on the right gift and the flat panel to express yourself. So people could feel you understand the difficult if you're not used to that hard so you as an individual but also that the people you're working with and in there in that there's a lot of opportunity. We don't we don't come with the same assumptions and, and we have to figure it out for ourselves. So learning to communicate remotely is already at the channel to starting something you

have to do new Ben doesn't have the same barriers, you know, doesn't have the same sort of connotations that may have if you're working in an office. We are with a group of folks. In the end they are maybe it's my opportunity for us to do the rewrite the script write it gets weak in many ways be an equalizer I thinking, and how we work with each other. I think some of some of the other benefits of data that, you know, you're not, you're not going to bring the bias of a being in the same room that the things that you have learned and pattern matching that you do, because of because of what you

bring to the table at, how do you work with people in that way? I don't got another, big, big opportunities for for the future of remote work and how it's going to help you. No bring diversity and inclusion to the Forefront. But the thing that I am most excited about it and I'll just throw this out there and I can talk about this all day, but I really do think that removing location. No dependencies is how we get two more diverse teams and how we actually allow communities, and individuals who can't be at a location where locked out, because they can be in a place and the places where people

are getting sores, the places where people are getting their connection. I think that it really A huge opportunity to equalise in that way to bring dollars from other from other places into communities that certainly need it. Right? I remember when, when I was younger engineer, I used to work for a company in the Bay Area, and I was bringing dollars into Portland where I was living at the time. And and, you know, it's it's it's a, it's a great way to bring money from other economies and bowls to your local community and really excited about the opportunities to do that for years. That are

traditionally underserved as well. I was just following what Janice saying, if your company that's still kind of trying to consider moving to Ramona or maybe go back to him in office setting, if you're using diversity, as I think it's really important to acknowledge that door and bring the diverse talent in Norwalk going through this shit and making sure that you're going to acknowledge the challenges that will come. Yeah, just that goes some of what I heard from the panelists. I love the, I love the idea of the phrase, remote being the great equalizer, but as Michelle was

saying, it also comes with this challenge, that you have to dress proactively. And I also love what I heard earlier, just about that there. Different dimensions of diversity, right? There's, it's not, it's not just about what you look like right there is LBGTQ issues. There's location issues, you happen to be born in the middle of the country. Should that mean like, you have some disadvantage family situations? Maybe you, take care of young kids, maybe have to take care of elderly. Parents, ageism type issues in even personality issues, right? Like,

you know, maybe introverts have more of an advantage to to be more equalized in the remote setting. Obviously work. We're not, we're we're somewhere along the Journey of where we want to be. We're not at the end, but we're also known as Beginnings, because many remote teams have already embraced diversity, include International hiring and have had to Grapple with some some, some challenges like, like cross-cultural communication with time zones, different cultures, multilingual team members, do it in your experience. How have you

seen companies deal with some of these issues and and what if some did some of the larnax? Play slow. But we've been remote from day one. So, we got, we got a team in the US. We got to seem in Philippines, UK Ukraine. Well, as Puerto Rico, I'm in a bunch of other places. And the thing is, you have to be not just a good communicator. You also be a very good manager of time, and so, like a lot of people that come from different backgrounds, don't even know how to use Google Calendar properly,

or even like a Connolly properly. So you got to be really good about understanding the scheduling and having like daily check-ins with people. Make a check to stay on top of a process and know what's happening across X on the specially. When you sleep, when people are still working on this shift, like we use a tool called hubstaff that allows you to track a lot of different things in addition to a bunch of other tools, probably one of the biggest things and going back to what I said about language before

language is super, super, super important. Do you like to talk about language? My first language is Spanish and English and then they even Even in our organization like the team in Ukraine. Doesn't see the greatest English. Microfighters are rushing to figure out a way for us to communicate and the best way matters. Are you also got to take it to can? Some people have a certain flame even the way that they tight might be flanked, by the way that you do. I was just at being able to understand that people have their own way of talking, try

to get it, put on the fun, just being really good at writing. Just can't get a daily or weekly check-ins out to get our things. Fantastic points. We are also I have been from day one. Not quite the room. As I don't have so many different countries but definitely and in a couple different countries, we've used the time zone as an advantage in any way. So we looked up to find him a two who are in offsetting in time zone that way. We can ask her to be a full cycle of coverage for different things that we need it.

There's ways to lean into time zone, difference is so that you can get the most productivity in the end of the outcomes if you see cuz it's not the one that's one way that you can kind of craft remote work in the experience and it brings to your company in a way that I think is an advantage. But time zone also is one of the biggest. If you don't have a good amount of crossover, it can make for some type of communication, very challenging, which is why I'm always an advocate of really leaning into the asynchronous communication as much as possible. Which is an art, our team. We have one

one video, you know, call with everybody a week. That's it. Like we did. We try to limit the amount of time that were on video, you know what? Look with a larger group because it's it's not necessary and frankly we can we can learn to communicate asynchronously and not only does it help us either intentional but how you communicate with also creates a record of record so that those who may be in their evening or maybe an early morning, you know, Kim consume this information in the ways that they work best for them and so I think that it's really hard to kind of look at

communication. Look at times, I'm going to look at cultural differences and try to figure out how you can use those to your advantage in many ways. But also how you can adjust the operations of your company, leave the system do you have in place so that they can really allow people to do their best work wherever they are and however they want to do that because I think that's that's where you really start to achieve, you know, the outcome as ever. At work and I can only promise for company. So, you know, I always think about it. It's the person behind the laptop more than is the tools

themselves, right? The two little hours to connect, they allow us to keep some, some continuity in the ways that were communicating. But you have to think about about really supporting the person behind the laptop and it's celebrating the fact that they are where they either need to be or want to be. And we all need to be changing or try to move everybody into one specific. You know, I'm old like we really want to leverage out as much as possible. Are the

world. So we're constantly working through time zone, different languages. Cultures it's something that's always on top of my for us as a company region and Equity provide material. So our employees are ready to go. When we go to meeting, they are making sure that everyone has time to speak during meetings and their voices. First to have any perspective learning, you wear froze to solving a problem that you might not have thought about before by the thing. One thing with working internationally is for

managers and she makes me really respectful of their many days. I start my day at 5 a.m. Connecting with our team in Hong Kong. So it's really important for me that I need to log off by 1 p.m. so it's just like having those times or setting those bands are not going to work the traditional 925 schedule because you're connecting to international team when making sure that you have balanced the kids and remote work. I think it's very hard to unplug the international factor is skipping. You're on your laptop forever

and you're not taking any breaks or not unwinding so it can become very overwhelming manager of a remote Yo, what up what I love about what each of us have been talking about here. Is it is the humanity that remote work is bringing into the picture of a 19. In the forest remote work on a force that work at home for for some reason. People is that worth individually, maybe things we just didn't see before, you know, there's a collision of Worlds that that is happening and it is making us understand that manly of what we need to be thinking about

when we're working with each other and working, that's coming to the Forefront because you can't hide it that, you know, we can't compartmentalize it, it is there. And it's and it's always been a part of us. But now we're having to grovel with it and reconcile. That is team and different ways. But I think that's, I think that's going to be a big benefit. I think we're going to get to know I can't anyways and probably already have in ways that we that we wouldn't have otherwise and And hopefully that's something as Leaders of companies, we can care for. And think about as we start to, you know,

welcome other people to our company. And also, as we work with our teammates moving forward, is how do we, how do we support that whole person? How do we feel really give the the kind of support did. It does address the challenges in the in the different make UPS in a different cultures in a different location than all these things into the complex. The complexity that is the person. How do we, how do we bring that to your work and and make it be okay in in celebrating for everybody, has someone

ever was before A few minutes. Yeah, I'm about to pass the net and remote work, including besides of you gotta realize that laptop that some 60% of black computer remotely. Look at the future. I'm a lot of people want to hire people from different. I love you brother. Room because I think that's something that that we don't think enough about. We don't plan nothing. But with enough for and we get, we have to create infrastructure that don't allow, you know, our future teammates should be able to do their best work wherever they are. And the reality is there are a lot of people

who want to work with me, we could work with your talent has is distributed evenly right buttocks. Not. So it's like there's a lot of folks out there who don't have the cooling the infrastructure that they need in order to actually do their best work and it's up to us to provide that it's up to you as leader just as people who are building a, I'll just, you know, the future of work, we need to be thinking about. How do we, how do we strengthen the industry? How do we bring two people? What they need? How do you provide that? How we budget for, right? I put money towards it so that

we know that everybody's got exactly. Do you need me? Cuz if they don't have what they need to do, their best work going to just add the flavor friction Zone again that you don't make things work. So I love that and something I'm actually trying to learn a lot more about myself right now, but what can we do? Personally look at me, do you know it's a tough needs to support our teammates in one what they really need to do their best work? Yeah, the Common Thread I'm I'm hearing, is that there are? There are there are some challenges and disadvantages with going remote, but

by using Justin, I'm in best practices around communication training, making sure voices are heard some kind of improvement materials techniques. You can actually turn some of those disadvantages in two advantages. There's an interesting pole that came out where they they, they pulled employees and managers to see, like, how is remote work going? How is work going and employees? It was off-the-charts. Everyone was saying, life is so much better than managers. It was actually worse manager say, hey, this is like,

this is way harder. So I think, you know what you guys are recommending, our are going to be helpful for managers to, to take on a question for you all, which is why we've all seen I mean, it's a, it's a really good thing that we've seen it in that large corporations. We've seen be seized with the important people all Embrace black lives matter, all kind of post on their Twitter feeds that they care about this causing and to be fair that that that's a big step from where we were even a year ago, that that wouldn't have happened. But

my question is, what can leadership teams do? What can company leadership? Do to increase diversity on their team, Beyond just these proclamations on Twitter. But you got to got to make a decision. I mean this is it this is the easy way I think it's why we looking for. You know we got to make the decision to hire and the people that we want to see diversity and I mean, I did see higher, how you write the check, if you do, what you have to do to make your team to versus attention, you don't, you know, for the back into it and

just hope it works. You don't look for outside systems are going to know, create create the opportunities for you. You, you find the people and you hire. This is very simple thing and we and we really need to take some out. Some, some personal accountability in the site, it's great to support our leader, should definitely doing that. It's great to be wanting to see the systems of the you've been relying on for many, many years decades, even to help with this issue of inclusion and diversity, absolutely fight for that, talk about it. Make that something new, something

that you Champion, but look in the mirror. You know who you are. You know, it's not hard to find diversity. If you open your eyes and you look for, any have to be intentional. And I think it, if you do that, you're not only setting yourself up for success in meeting your, your objectives are getting more diversity. I got about that, but you're going to be a better company to company. Is it? It don't understand it and really laid into figuring out how to find the van and embrace the first time. So that you can't Overlook and you can't

wait for somebody else to help you do it. You got to just look in the mirror and make the decision to have your company reflect what you believe, the rest of the world reflects. And that's it. I think it's just a simple as that. I really like the whole made the highest underwater statement. Policy when if you want to make his hand in your car, but you can actually take a portion of that and will be changed the structure. And Charlie is allocated a large amount towards

either hiring or making it sound as if they don't have power come from. Very nice backgrounds. That are our traditional so that like that's Justified and like, they're not even giving metrics that there are the carnival to their given aspirational basketball arena thing is super dumb because if you, if you running a startup A BBC every found it was how you going to have to apis and goes if you said to her heart, right? How fast are you going? How much revenue are you making any more?

If you going to do that? Why wouldn't you do it? Where you go? When you make a raised, you going to tell him how you going to use the money? And how many hours you can write most of the work if we can put, the most of the word is ask Universe, what you focus on will improve. Imagine what you and prove exactly what it, it will improve. How do you say something that? Could be super cool though. It's like if, if the employer starts getting involved in training Talent, actually Candlelight employers,

Mobley just live. Apprenticeships laughing. That's what you think about life. 47 million people. And you create a really strong on ramps and to these jobs done with the lights plug, Guild education has done with like, Walmart that level people up into managerial positions, from working at it, from a friend that you can do something. So, I'm starting a Uber driver, maybe I can go into a training program and then like working for the mailroom right. Way, back from you, some french fries,

Work for a company Flight, 45 years, or you're working. What do you think, Michelle? Bite-sized pieces. I would think the first thing really for leave and have a lot on their plate with sometimes, think you forget their organization and their middle, managers to see, where is there a block and creating more diversity for our teeth. After that, another step could be if your company already has one more spot, line attention on the issues that they're facing one of the bigger things that any organization can do is try their business mustard,

diversity and inclusion. Talking about. How do you mean I have a positive impact on the business and gold for our Executives have reminders? Not I love that kind of money to it. That's that's brilliant, that's brilliant. Can Switching gears, you know, we talked about what we can company leadership do, but most of the people on the cob probably not near the CEOs. What Can employees do to engage their leadership team companies not doing enough. What I think is super cool about coming from an ostrich. The background is you know how to recognize another hospital Running

Man. Recognizes another section of the most part right now. I can I can connect with Darren because we got something that will allow yourself to be near like me. Oh, hell yeah. You know I'm going to be a lot of times like this. If you can get the engineer that's already in there. Talk to the hiring manager about to you. That's that's how it's going to work because because Is very similar to the music in the hardest part of getting in the music industry. That's not learning how to sing

and play guitar learning how to play a record for the right person or people outside. The music industry that are at record. Label just said, there's a bunch of town from people that are hired to do. What you got to do is find the people that are just like you and the facts are most jobs are offering to come to approve flying online. You're missing out on 80% of your internal be at a company that you know, I just got to the hiring manager and and let it be, let it work. I think another thing to do to is figure out, what are the technical things that you're hiring

manager, supposed to talk about that for talent and share that with the people that are trying to get hired so I can go to the projects that are relevant to them. Never got a job personally through the website or with my resume in Investment Banking. And if so, Fantastic. Right now is very specific ways to help people refer other people use their own, people networks to, to help a child with this. This type of issue and enter the length of remote works

when you lose these or when you don't have these well-formed people, that works because you are located next to each other. You have physical proximity next to the people that you work with your peers, it also disrupt your ability to I think help other people Advance their careers. And you know it's a stranger to create these really strong people networks when you are largely working on them in a quite a nice lady fashion. Until we need to be, you need to think about how we, how we do that better because humans you know, what is a

very social creatures. Like when the best things that we do is we create network and create some people like Recognize each other. We recognize the similarities and differences is very nice and we can use that to help benefit our peers. And so, we're looking at very specifically, is a lot of upside and using our personal networks to help helpful. When somebody challenges, you specifically some of the diversity inclusion challenges, you're being an advocate for our peer group, I'm meeting others, and recognizing other, like, us, and getting them in

front of the right people, like groomers in the shoes opportunity. There, I heard that makes sense. Why did most of the work that I've ever got? Got in my career, I thought you break you break something and then we got to do much, much more of that for each other and in do that intentionally with with our peers that we want to see him positions that that matter right in the place that we want to see the difference. Proactive in that real quick, if you are feeling as a employee as a teammate, that your company

is in addressing the diversity and inclusion in the ways that they should, which I'm not sure if that's what you were alluding to with your questions. All but I guess that's part of it. Coffee is already conversation going. I hope he's already a forum in which people have been talking about this. And so just be acting like, you definitely won't be active there. If you don't feel safe, you know, you trying to figure out who, who who, who can you, how do you find your safe space inside of of your organization to have these conversations is very important, be active and not be quiet about it. She

like, it's not happening happening. Well, and I think it's okay right now, I think we speak out, you know, to to find your power in this and be okay with it. You know, don't don't send me shed some of the the personal concerns about how this might look or I think you're in a time right now where is is wholly appropriate to be talking about how are we dressing this as a group as a as an organization? How are we looking at opportunities to help is wholly appropriate? In fact, it's on all of us. It's it's a fine doctor needs to do that. I think I look

at you and look at all the options and trying to find try to find your voice. And end in right now is your time to talk about this. It appears but also go to your managers go to go to focus and do you know who are in positions of power who have the ability to help with some of these things? Like I think I think you'll see that you'll be well-received right now too. If you are I should tell you a lot. You know what, date was how they really are personal things but they really care about what the real values are.

And you know, you might be that you do if you do something that's going to this one to you. Understand who you're working with, who you're working for, where their values are and La people being found out right now. So how do you conversations are tough? But but they're important and then going for a lot of reasons. What Darren said, it's really interesting like how we see our leadership and leaders. I think everyone here leadership, are we going to get through the business going to switch to remote

and if not, they, that leadership does not care about the person empathy and approach that this is still really important to us as are pushing through, so vile. So, I was the only approach you If you're in a new remote setup for officer swing by there could be through just like a water Community Farm. If your company has Town Hall, First episode Grace, with everybody, I do think it's time. It's time for us to have to find our boys in this as well and and things

for for everybody to figure out how to, you know, how to reconcile. But it's important we do. And so, you know, we do a lot of priorities, but this has to be taught. It's got to be it's it's it's our time and tell where it, you know how we're going to, ultimately, get to where we need to be in, but we can't we can't waste in a time like this. We can't waste moments like this. We've got. So we've got to get out really love her. The money for the best. We can I would also say to like, send all these companies have made pledges, like, big old plan, is to

help with the varsity. That a lot of people that have great hearts that want to do something, but they don't know what to do. And so if you do know what to do and you are on the proud of your unemployed and form them, whoever Dave put in charge, a lot of type of person that they place a charger. I'll give you the money for those in kind of a number of Special Value. Yeah, and yeah, one thing I'm seeing in the comments here is it is you do balancing balancing this, you know, wanting to speak out with the, with

the reality of how hard it is to get. A lot of people were unemployed today. And yeah, I was on a panel of the other day with a diversity inclusion person. And she said, like, make no mistake in the defeat of the diversity person. And speaking up is still not without risk. But yeah, we have, we have all these headwinds we have all these that these wind behind us. Now, right now, there is pressure coming from outside, the organization was powerful. But I think people are saying, you don't be cautious smile and, and do it in the right way. And a my Darren said earlier if

if you're hitting a brick wall, then you figure out a way to get to the leadership team. With that. That is far as you. Like if you do want to speak out to the powerful, I got like that already has a microphone that nobody would dare cross if you didn't stand there with you while you speaking and you make your voice hurt, then you have some protection. Not that you would all turn. All this meat that was good about myself like a little white girl that asked how she can help and something that you was working on a told her that she did. She did she couldn't do anything cuz I like The

Nightlife Cuba credits, his whole life. So like I lied too important for something to keep in mind and I really like what be before he came out called me, the picture that you start listen to. This is being in black and white like we got a lot of United. A lot, a lot of great points in terms of best practices and I think we really kind of went after the issue, so I just want to thank Darren, Michelle Rubin for being on this panel and sharing kind of your wisdom in your experience. I learned something. I bet you do the people who are watching this

one that thing as well. So thank you. All right.

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