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National Medical Cannabis Unity Conference
April 29, 2021, Online, USA
National Medical Cannabis Unity Conference
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Removing Barriers: Housing, Healthcare & Employmen
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About the talk

From facing eviction, to lack of health coverage, to losing a job, cannabis patients face a slew of barriers when it comes to housing, healthcare and employment. This panel of experts to explores ways lawmakers are protecting patients on the state level, and what is being done on the federal level to ensure patients are not at risk of losing essential services simply because of the medicine they use

.
This panel was recorded live at ASA's 9th Annual National Medical Cannabis Unity Conference on April 29, 2021 and features:
Rep. Chris Rabb and Andrew Brisbo with moderator Andrew Freedman.


00:30 Andrew Freedman introducing himself and today's topic

01:20 Rep. Chris Rabb introducing himself

02:05 Andrew Brisbo introduces himself.

04:00 Cannabis as medicine in the States

06:30 A policymaker and a patient

10:05 The State level efforts

12:45 The Cannabis Regulators Association and Michigan’s Marijuana Regulatory Agency

16:16 How policy should change

18:48 The administration or legislature

20:40 The overall supply of cannabis products in Michigan

21:50 The story about Thomas Jefferson employee

23:35 "Drug-free" zones such as hospitals, schools, and housing

25:13 Impact with the State's MMJ program

28:15 Closing thoughts

About speakers

Rep. Chris Rabb
Legislator at Pennsylvania House of Representatives
Andrew Brisbo
Executive Director at Marijuana Regulatory Agency
Andrew Freedman
Senior Vice President at Forbes Tate Partners

State Representative Chris Rabb, affectionately known as “RepRabb”, is a father, educator, author, consultant, and member of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives representing roughly 63,000 people across three neighborhoods in northwest Philadelphia. A former U.S. Senate legislative aide and staffer at the White House Conference on Small Business in the Clinton administration, RepRabb is also a former adjunct professor at Temple University’s Fox School of Business. While a visiting researcher at Princeton University in 2009-10, Rabb wrote the book, Invisible Capital: How Unseen Forces Shape Entrepreneurial Opportunity (2010) which addresses modern U.S. entrepreneurship through the lens of structural inequality. RepRabb serves on the board of the National Caucus of Environmental Legislators (NCEL), the executive committee of the National Black Caucus of State Legislators (NBCSL) and is a member of the National Conference of State Legislators’ Energy Supply Task Force. A graduate of Yale College and the University of Pennsylvania, Rep. Rabb is a native of Chicago and an avid family historian and genealogist.

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Andrew was appointed by Governor Whitmer to lead Michigan’s Marijuana Regulatory Agency (MRA) in April 2019. The agency oversees the commercial licensing under the Medical Marihuana Facilities Licensing Act and Michigan Regulation and Taxation of Marihuana Act as well as the medical marijuana registry card program under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act. MRA’s mission is to establish Michigan as the national model for a regulatory program that stimulates business growth while preserving safe consumer access to marijuana. Andrew has been in licensing and regulation with the State of Michigan since 2004, including experience with the Michigan Gaming Control Board, Department of State, and occupational and health professional licensing.

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Andrew brings vast experience from his three years as the State of Colorado’s first Director of Cannabis Coordination. During this time, he developed distinctive experience effectively implementing voter-mandated legalized adult-use and medical cannabis while protecting public health, maintaining public safety, and keeping cannabis out of the hands of children. Andrew’s role in developing a successful operating model for cannabis regulation and stakeholder collaboration was identified as one of the reasons for the State of Colorado’s success in implementing adult-use cannabis legalization by the Brookings Institution. Governor Hickenlooper has gone so far as to praise Andrew’s work while on national television, stating, “Andrew Freedman, who came in and helped us once it was passed . . . [has] done a remarkable job of creating a regulatory framework.” Andrew has received national recognition for his leadership. Men's Health Magazine named him one of the 30 most influential health influencers of the last 30 years. He was recognized as one of Fast Company’s “100 Most Creative People in Business” in 2016. He has been featured on 60 Minutes, NBC Nightly News, The Today Show, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, The Boston Globe, Governing Magazine, and dozens of local stories throughout the nation and internationally. Andrew holds a J.D. from Harvard Law School and a B.A. in philosophy and political science from Tufts University. ​

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Okay. Thing is, everybody is here. The technological Miracle. My my claim to fame was 14 when I do have legalized in Colorado locally. I was in a bizarre now work at the executive director or the Coalition for cannabis LLC education and regulation, a group devoted to getting legalization. Right on the federal level. I am joint Day by to unbelievably Walker, denchel individuals to talk through by. Removing barriers for housing, Healthcare employment. The topic of the day, I will have them introduce

themselves. Thank you so much, Andrew. I'm state representative, Chris Raab AKA reprap, and I represent three thousand souls in Northwest Philadelphia. This is my third term and I'm a proud advocate for a sound of cannabis policy. And I'm also a medical cannabis user here in the Commonwealth of PA. Okay. Sorry. I was getting interference. I'm sorry, Chris continue. Sorry. I was just saying that in addition to being a legislator in an advocate. I'm on this issue. I'm also a medical cannabis patient myself.

I'm so sorry to have interrupted and mr. Briscoe. Andrew Bristol, I'm the executive director of the marijuana regulatory agency in Michigan. So we are responsible for the patient. Caregiver registry in the states as well as our commercial licensing. Programs for medical facilities in establishments, and I'm also on the executive committee of State regulators. So medical cannabis has been perhaps the strangest political scientific and populist phenomenon in

modern American democracy. Essentially, a call from a number of people, a true Grassroots movement that started from the fact that cannabis was helping people legitimately. I, with all sorts of ailments and a reluctance in. In fact, it incomplete intransigence from the federal government to continue to move research or or science based on cannabis forward. And therefore, a Revolt from this growing population of people who wanted to see, not only for themselves, but for their loved ones

and for the community is the whole cannabis available as medicine as everybody. Here, knows that Groove 236 days having reform their laws to allow for My best to be used as a medicine for their patients, but that, that political mechanism that a way that way of accomplishing their goal has had some foreseen and unforeseen consequences,. And I think most pertinent to it is, all of the ways in which medicine is treated through a housing employment, health care for any. Other medicine is not the ways in

which cannabis, as a medicine on a state-level can be treated. And so are panels today are going to talk to you both on the state level. What can be done along with what should be the next steps on the, on the federal level. I think that the growing sentiment amongst a number of cannabis medical, cannabis users, and ones that I heard it when I was working for Colorado. And, and continue to hear is that they're tired of being treated like second-class citizens, not when it comes to medical cannabis use. So, the first question for both of you And maybe starting off

with director risbo. I'm curious to know your thoughts regarding absentee policy issues and State Medical programs. What efforts are your States making to address the sort of issues outlined? I think it's we see a shifting public sentiment in. And I think legalization for adult use in, Michigan has an interesting impact where it, it led to some level of D Sigma to destigmatize. A she proved public perception and political perception of the use of is we're trying to close. The gap is too. A lot of telemedicine to be used for for patient

certifications. We had been executive order that allowed at Michigan during the pandemic that was overturned by our Supreme Court. So so can cannabis patients who want to get supposition certification for medicinal use are essentially, it's the only mechanism patient-doctor interaction that cannot be done to tell Madison to Michigan right now. So we're trying to to fix that. But overall in Michigan, the laws were written in such a way that the protections if you will. When we look at things like housing and employment are on the side of employers, still being able to have zero

tolerance policies, even for medicinal, use for landlord. Still are prohibited the use of Cannabis used for medicinal purposes and certain you're starting mechanisms within rental properties. And for example, I had this, this comes up all the time. He sort of ochra see, if you will let staffing agency, where we issue cards and oversee. The program. Cannot be medicinal uses uses cannabis because we are a zero-tolerance employer, and it's a government. So that those are things that I think the policy needs to evolve to teach. You truly look at cannabis from a medical perspective.

Up your beer, in Lander. Reprobate in a policymaker, and impatient yourself. Where would where do you see this going? So it's, it's funny and end ironic and problematic about what you were saying before. I asked you, that, you know, that the staff can actually like the zero tolerance policy. Prohibits them from participating, right? So, this 300,000 medical cannabis users. I'm not going to say patience because you cannot be prescribed medical cannabis in our Commonwealth. So even though this is a patient card that's misleading. I cannot get a prescription in my, my

internist doesn't know anything about cannabis and is not really a fan, but the law requires her as a certified. Not provider Health Physician. She she's allowed to fill out. The paperwork to allow me to do it even though she gives me no information and it's not actually supportive of it. I have to go to. I can go to another doctor who can certify me over the phone. But if I want advice. That's not part of the process if I want an as a patient, I'm there's a disconnect there. I have to go see the pharmacist at the dispensary. I go to cuz every dispensary in Pennsylvania have to have

a full-time pharmacist. So the pharmacist on site is the best person I can get for this type of thing. If I don't know, any positions are there. None in network. I don't have health insurance. Who can actually talk to me about how cannabis could help me. I don't even know where to begin. And so and I am rather connected, middle-class State Legislature East speaks English as a first language with good health care and I feel like it is hard to process myself and a lot of this is politics. So because I'm state legislator I can say this

The policy is corrupted by politicians and I make that to make that distinction between public service, right? If you're doing this for the, if you're following the sign you doing this for public health. If you doing this for personal choice, to join us to have a informed that evidence-based kind of approach to how this could help and provide options for folks. Then we need to remove a lot of these barriers and reduce the bureaucracy and have meaningful conversations to improve these laws and expand them to adult use cannabis. But right now that the

program is is deeply flawed and also it's not affordable right at again. I'm middle class and it's expensive and I represent working class in porfa and they do everything, right, jump through all these hoops. They get to buy medical cannabis that they can barely afford and you know, I have 300,000 fellow pencil. Who have medical cannabis cards who just because they ingested weeks prior could get pulled over and get it at cannabis-related. Do you I which is deeply problematic and most of the folks. I believe. I don't know

for certain, but I believe are probably middle class senior citizen. So, as you as you, I mean, you was almost a parade of horribles there, a representative as you look at that Parade, Where where are you looking to kind of start or maybe, you know, where should at the state level efforts? From people who may be watching today's webinar, other people's from a essay. Where should they start digging in first in order to kind of, figure out how best to square. This round Peg, around the square peg, her or

however, the saying goes, I have a crystal ball. It's invisible is right here. This crystal ball is looking into the future to say, how we can pass laws to make cannabis policy, more Humane more accessible, all of those things in this Crystal Ball. The fulcrum will be when people who are in the majority, who, who run Harrisburg AR state capital, which presently a Republicans in both the house and the Senate, when one or more of their family members gets pulled over for DUI, even though they weren't

in impaired or one of their loved ones will be fired for admitting that. They use medical cannabis in a zero-tolerance workplace, or their attendance, and they're not allowed to, to, to use legally because the landlord says, or a family or first, or maybe a, a big donor is trying to put up a medical cannabis dispensary. And the the property owner says, no, we have a policy. No cannabis. And that brings in a lot of money, these are very, you know, profitable

entities and once it hits them at home in their district with a major donor, you know, campaign finance apps in Pennsylvania. So, that could be a really big donor, when it happens to someone who's in their Mist. It'll be a priority and that's very cynical. But that's what my crystal ball says. And we seen that and other issues, like lgbtq issues when you are, when you discriminate against my daughter. Oh, well, then that's an issue. Right? But if it's somebody else's from a bad neighborhood, it's not an issue, but you mess with my daughter has lost practically speaking. This was going to

happen. Almost almost a positive outcome of in your backyard and Andrew Andrew from the regulator standpoint in in in kind of the regulatory way of progressing policy through. About this organization, the Cannabis Regulators, Association, or camera, both what it is and in how you might see a group like this, interacting with camera and what kind of outcomes, they should be looking for to influence state policy. I think our group is is it's it's Unique in its in its construction it as we

are a group of State Regulators who have done something and it in a way that there was no no no basis and knowledge to figure out how to do and you are experiencing this Andrew doing in Colorado likes it. So the only people we had to learn from if they started with each other and we formalizing this group really helps to advance state-level policies in states that are coming on board now, because they have us as a resource to say, we've been there. We've done that years with work years with didn't and it's very easy, you know, if I could steal our rabbits crystal ball, like we

know what's going to happen in your state. Because it happened here. It's always the same Progressive the progression of issues, but it's new States. Come on board. They go to that progression. Much more quickly than states that if they're more mature, Come Aboard to bring that resource other states, I think. Gives them an opportunity to approach state-level policy with a better base of knowledge as to how to go about it. Then if you were trying to do it in a vacuum, and I think our organization is is open to collaboration with with anyone, that, that could be used as a stakeholder in a

state-level policy of, jiggly National policy. And in, what are the things that we do talk about, you know, they're few hot-button issues that are always up there. We talk. So it's like what even talks to stay in the bility and a lot of what we talked about as well as is patient access in a growing adult-use Market. How do you ensure that those who are you to focus on medicinal cannabis? Use? What are the how do you ensure they still have access? As we see that shift? What else can be done? You know, this tangentially related things, like opening up opportunities for research and easing

some of the DEA restrictions on where product can be source for research purposes. Are we open up? It's something I'm keenly interested in a Michigan. How do we open a pathway to the colleges and universities that want to have degree programs? And you know, how can we train those who are in health related sectors? The nurses and doctors to have cannabis as part of their curriculum. So that they have a better understanding feel more comfortable in that role is as rough of it, so that they can give guidance to their patients on on what to do with a similar approach in Michigan. Right now where

our physician certification is an egg knowledge, mint, that a patient has a qualifying condition. But then you're on your own, you'll figure it out. Yes, you can, you can have the card to use medicinal cannabis that prevents you from being arrested or prosecuted, but does not give you any guidance. As you would normally expect from your health practitioner is to what products to use. How much when and why to treat the condition for which you're seeking a cannabis as the therapeutic remedy? So pretty, I think what you guys are doing over at camera,

may end up being kind of the biggest source of change over the coming years. You know, I think there's a lot of excitement on the federal level but we all know the federal government can act at a glacial Pace. I'm going to ask first whether we know pencil Pennsylvania is planning on getting involved. Before I do, we are 3 minutes away from Q&A. So, please please leave questions that you have for this group so that we can dive in a two-part question for you first. Do you think that you guys will be involved in in the camera

organization going for it? And second on the federal level? I know that their calls, especially for a essay for changes to screenings hopper for housing to 1010 requirements. Do you think both to a camera and to the federal government? The first asks should be about health policy should change. That is that is a great question. And I guess I should I should push back and say, who is the? We are we referring to. The executive branch we talking about war for the legislative branch or, you know, I'm on Forest and committees Finance, Commerce,

Judiciary, and Agriculture. And they all relate to cannabis policy in very different and complimentary way and none of them are dealing with them, substantiv lie, and there's not a real political will collectively to address this in ways that are meaningful. Because I think folks, punted and said, okay, we're going to do medical cannabis. We're going to leave it alone. Cuz anything else would be too, radical leaders, not the political appetite for the people in power to do any of this at present. But like I said, it's probably going to be folks back home.

Who say, listen. I'm a conservative and icing for cannabis and that's probably going to be the Tipping Point where it transcends political ideology. Cuz right now it appears to be more partisan than it really is. And it's not, there are people all across the political Spectrum. Who want to have this choice and to make decisions as consenting adults? So I'm not exactly sure what the what the tip of the spear will be for us in Pennsylvania. But I do know the Grassroots mobilizing works. And people need to be informed and we should give people the benefit of

the doubt. If they've never had this conversation that never thought about issues regarding, you know, residency, DUIs, all of these things that are impacting folks, in rural urban and Suburban areas across the state that they're going to have to think about those things and organizations, like Americans for safe access and others can really play an important role in. Anderson. Same question to you on, on the federal government side. Where do you think groups? Like a essay should be looking for change. Where would you be looking for change for the federal government for the

administration or or or the legislature depending on how policy reform is approaching the federal level? I'd say either, would happen in some big holistic, sweet of decriminalization legalization or is he going to happen in pieces? And I I would guess it probably more happens in pieces. And I think there's a targeted areas that I think are most important. It is opening up the doors for more robust research, freeing up. Bring up the hours for research that are provided by the federal government. Freeing up State legalized programs to provide researchers with cannabis is actually used in

both the medicinal values markets for the purposes of that research and I think the education sector as well. That there could be something analogous to the Cole memo for colleges and universities in agreement of no action by the Department of Education. So the school can offer degree programs. I can support Losing federal student aid and giving them more flexibility to build it into their program. So, those are a couple of areas that I think would it would really help free things up and normalize things at the state level. And then overall, when it comes to federal policy and I think our

organization stand for what we want to be at the table have that stage regulator approach. Help with beds, learn from what we already know. Having done it and not try and do a federal takeover. You know, Leslie markets are working continue to work but provide some of that Federal infrastructure. For the support of these programs already have infrastructure that we need to leverage when it comes to standards for for testing and and your research dollars and and the lights and standardization for those critical public health issues that we all face in the southern state by state basis.

We've seen some great questions from the audience that we want to move to right now, how has the phasing of caregiver products at dispensaries affected, the overall supply of cannabis products in Michigan. And I would imagine a few days out of the infusion of caregiver product into the regulated space. That that was an issue where we were stuck with her the chicken-and-egg situation and then ultimately signal that we were going to phase that out. And we saw a dramatic increase in regulator production as a result of that. And you

know, and I think to the benefits of consumers and impatience in particular that increase in supply has led to a significant decrease in the price will just go. So, we've been over the last year, without a 22% decrease in the retail price of medical cannabis products in a 46%, decrease in adult-use cannabis products. So I think we're starting to see as the market matures more. Stability with the market. You think we do understand these mute buttons after a while? One of these questionnaires. I saw the story about the Thomas Jefferson employee. Who was

fired for testing positive while being a registered patient in Pennsylvania. I don't know if you've seen that story and if you have any thoughts on it, I haven't seen the story to me and I said, hey put that employee in touch with me. So if you can put that in the, if you can put the link in there, I'd like to read the story, but I was approached and I think it's awful and this is This is a bitter irony of the kind of puritanical nature of policy shaping on this issue

and it needs to be addressed in meaningful ways. In once we tell people stories about all the pernicious ways, which people are doing everything right? Are being punished in ways that are very deleterious to the professions to their health. And so on. I think we'll be able to chip away at the skepticism. And again, when it happens to someone you care about in your position of power, you're going to start to speak up. We seen it time and time again, I believe that's what's going to happen about the one I say you for the record. I want to introduce

a bill that does, what does Nicole memo for state university colleges and universities? That's brilliant met. Its own, is already done it. I will credit them and I will use that as model legislation in Pennsylvania. That is a great idea. And I'm glad I'm on this panel, if for no other Another area that has great value. So thank you. Thank you. Michigan. Last question. I think, unless this is a shorter answer than I expected. But how do we do away with Drug Free Zone, such as hospitals, schools and housing.

World Market, my short answer to that is. We need to elect legislators who are not stuck in the eighties and nineties. How about that? We consider in? We actually look at the research to show what works and what has it. If you believe in feeding the prison industrial complex at the expense of what's best for public health and Community safety, then double down on that. But if you actually care about what the facts show and you also consider the evolving cannabis policy ecology, then this is exactly

something we need to talk about, but ultimately, you know, elections have consequences. And we need to have the right proportion of folks, on both sides of the aisle that will do the right thing because this is not doing what people claim it does. It's not keeping a safer. It is putting people at In Harm's risk, who are doing everything that you're supposed to do, but, because Caught up in very kind of arcane. Criminal offences and approaches to to the carceral system. This is what is produced.

Give me a few minutes left, but it's a great last question, from, from Demi, Debbie Wimberly. How can a patient can this patient advocate, make an impact with their states? MMJ program to ensure they are working for the patient? Chat with you executive director, please. I want to hear this. One of the things that I think it's been incredibly impactful is advocating directly to legislators and then I can be applied cuz there's there's so many of them and change their

perception of what's happening. I think many policymakers their, their Mind's Eye for what they do, as, you know patient access and commercialization of the marijuana industry. It is not what it really is and they need to do to get into facilities. See grow operations. See provisioning centers retailers as we call them here in Michigan, talk to patients directly and I don't think they're going to be proactive about that. There are very few where a cannabis is at the top of their policy agenda. One of the hardest things that that that we face when we

when it comes to policy is getting the attention of legislators. Number one and everyone's agenda more than likely and there are a million other policy issues that are brought to the doorstep of legislators every day. So you have to make a little noise. Do you have to get on their agenda? Let's talk to them about what their needs are. It is preferable of the two pulling back, the curtain on how politics really works, right? You have to you and Isaac and you have to let them know that this is impactful within their their jurisdiction. And it's going to, you know, it's going to be a

positive influence when it comes to you getting. I agree wholeheartedly and I want to add to that. There is a there's a right argument for everybody. You have to find what that is. You have to find that you got to reach people where they are. So I'm I'm working on a bill to introduce the bill, to repeal the death penalty. My Approach is a racial Justice approach. That's what brought me into another colleague, who's helping you with this, who's a conservative ultra-conservative devout Catholic. It's

about faith for him. These things can coexist. If you know, what triggers, that individual good or bad. That's how you have to focus your advocacy as a citizen. Lobbyist. Everyone who was a part of this conference is a de facto citizen. Lobbyist. You have to do the due diligence to see who you need to talk to, and for me to go to the Judiciary Committee, which means there's twenty-five of us were on this committee. Democrats, 15, Republican, figure out. What is the the linchpin for each of those, folks with stakeholders like me and other folks and your respective State

and figure out what that compelling argument is and key. Bottom key, bottom, and eventually we can wear folks down here, not already on the right side of History. We are here at a closing thought or two. I will give mine in that started with the theme that there's been frustration that cannabis patients have been treated as a second-class citizen. I will I will give the reverse of that which is a positive note. I think more than ever. The wind is at the back for these Grassroots movements to have a very real impact on every level of government, local state and federal.

So, at least for my part, I had I think that the payoff has been coming the payoff is as good as come in many ways. I know that it's not always us exactly where it needs to be, but there's great progress and I think potential for even more great progress. So, closing thoughts. I am 2 seconds or less from, from, from both groups. Representative. It's not a matter of if it's just a matter of when and how I'm more concerned that cannabis policy overall is just and Humane is based on science and whatever. We're talkin about, what we talked about the seismic changes.

We have to look at these things through an equity lens. No matter what, that should be the norm that should be the default not as an afterthought as a set aside or something like that. It has to be baked into the very Foundation of these very critical policies. That impact, every spear Society. An executive director. I think I did you mention the right word and your progress in and you know celebrate celebrate the progress and then appreciate the progress that's being made against play back against that sort of laissez-faire attitude, that I hear a lot about an hour. It's, it's been

legalized now. Just just go away now that you have policy in place. It needs to continue to be refined and into focus on the issues that are most critical. But, you know, I appreciate the progress is being made in the Navy exercise. A little bit of patience because these are challenging issues but I think your point the tide is turning in terms of how I'll send him into the shipping and politically I think everybody for your time. I thought this was a great discovery.

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Rep. Chris Rabb
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