Oxford Real Estate Society 2021 Conference - Day 1 Session 5

So my name is akhil. I'm on the outside real estate Society can help to organize the conference. And this panel is to discuss affordable, housing and specifically that can the government aims and objectives be match. And we're going to use that as a starting point. And I were joined by loss of super experienced people from within the sector and hopefully, we can discuss a lot around that topic and then leave a bit of time for the Q&A at the end as well. So the format will be a quick introduction of the panelists from myself at will then hand

over to the panelists, to talk about one particular area within affordable housing at 4 or 5 minutes each. And then we'll have a discussion at the end. So if you do have any questions as we go through, please use cumin a function to send them, send them through, and then I'll pick them up and make sure we discuss them. So. Just to get started with joined today by 4:30 distinguished individuals. So thank you very much to you old fool. The joining us. Mary Parsons is the Regeneration and Partnerships director at level

at Mary has over 25 years. Experience in the sector has been involved in some of the largest housing ledge regeneration program. In the UK, which was supposed to private and Housing Association, sectors, prior to marriage control at Lobo that she was a group executive director at places for people. Marry Willow Circle Mission afford government building better beautiful commission and among the other roles has a trustee and chair of the Town and Country Planning Association, Trustee of witches. Magic a tional charity established by George clock, Innovation and housing.

We're also joined by DJ energize who is fund manager of UK affordable housing at CBRE Global Investors. Also, very experienced with every 20 years in the sector establishing public strategies and delivering Investment Portfolio, working both the private and public sector DJ's been involved in the delivery delivery of a 5000 housing units across multiple Housing Development and regeneration programs at CBRE Global Investors. No more recently established a UK social impact fund investing in affordable housing for the global client

base. And prior to see if you already DJ stuff with English Partnerships, which is now comes England that way funded and development schemes, focus on National Housing and regeneration programs such as the first time buyers Mischief surface Publix at the Landing instead and was also involved in Community Land Trust. It will say Tom bloxham with us today at who is Chairman and founder of Evan Splash, which is an award-winning regeneration company has whenever 420 awards for architecture regeneration design and business. The company was started,

in 1993. Just semen in the sheds, working on the first project which was an unlocked building in the pool and it's now the concert Square mixed-use scheme. And since then I've created thousands of new homes and jobs investing in a billion pounds into regeneration projects across the country from Manchester to Liverpool Birmingham Sheffield, bristol-plymouth. Another's recently received a deals at 90 million transaction, which store Japan's. Biggest house.

Build a house on Holmes, England, become shareholders in the company. And the provision of affordable. Homes has been a cool pillow historically, and an ongoing developments across the country. These include and messy side in her at North Star in Cambridgeshire Campbell Park in Milton Keynes and a project with the National Trust in Cumbria and also Urban Splash as a fund management business which are both in, which is increasingly, looking at affordable homes, as effective to enter. And last but certainly not least

been dancing is the chief executive of Lakeland general affordable homes private to joining legal &, General Ben was at Sulphur Housing Association, which is the sixth largest Housing Association in the UK and whilst they delivered the development programme of 1300 times a year, but not a budget of around the quarter of a billion islands of the 30 years of experience across the residential housing, and real estate sector, including as chair of Westminster community homes. And Deputy chair of Thames, Valley, Housing Association.

Answer with those brief intros. I'm sure,. Listen. Can we talk a lot more about their experience than? And I've been able to summarize that but Mary, if it's okay, would you take his off with a bit of a discussion around the supply of affordable housing? Currently, why it's so important and needs? And are we doing? What's needed? Yeah, I'm going to do a very quick. So it seems that's the reason why it has such an important role to play. I think we are at the highest level in a house for a long time

is 12 billion, * 2 *. England has a 7.4 billion from its train, ankle 21 in March 2026 * 130000, new affordable, homes, outside of London by the five billion within the authority said that the potential to stop think about new Council housing as well. And if we look at the site during the 12 months to March 2020 that was 57 * + 2, * 68, * and sausage. That was upside down the day before and the 250,000 * 23% * real. A really positive rental the completions and I

forgot to take recent Trends in 2015, 3/4 of old, they were foldable rented. If we look back to 2011-12 social run, what your classes are. Russian, social housing was the most common 10 yet. It was replaced by a full for a link to Market runs and local housing, allowance on social rent. Aqua switching over 300 programs for old Century section 106 is in a roundhouse delivered through section. 106 is if you look at the statistics very few local authorities. Should I achieve that policy position?

So everything sounds really post it, but we still have a master builder supply on the shortage doesn't seem to be improving despite the all of the investment into it. Look back at the Kohl's is why I suppose the turning point was when right to buy was introduced in 1990. That was just shy of two million Council. Had him sold off a weight loss, Twilight 4 million of those. Isn't that lost to the fact that. Turn off the right to buy homes. It's estimated that over 40% of them. All right. She's not in the ownership of private, landlords. I'm quite often rented people. I'm high as a

benefit. So there's been a government subsidy. But it sounds at night time. The last year, the estimate of how many people on the social housing waiting list in this country, was over two million people, so you can be affordable. I'm 90,000. People, is the access behind him off at the car. If your income and you can stay in Opa-locka. What will work in some way? Such a small access suitable. Accommodation and I think they recently said that we are increasing unaffordability aspiration and not just need to

know. But we all know I'm looking at things like Shadow and ship. You can have an income of a. She's nice sometimes. Nice. Sometimes household income in London with the housing market. You've still got a breach house. Prices is 7, *, median, incomes. You going to London, Bridge of 1227 and 1/2. * / jinko. So it was well as increase in Supply and how he invested in this challenge. You know, that Robbie, can social impacts of an affordable housing on how it was seen as an aspirational Tanya for working.

Unless it was a step up. It wasn't the ten-year-old Last Resort. Why you ended up? If you didn't have a choice, if you roll. Do, you know? Phone bill. So tight. You have the philanthropist actually had to work a place to buy the family's. Well, he'll say which is property at the Northwest Cambridge apartments and homes for people that work at the University. Because stop disconnect between the housing market. Opportunity will really holds a lot of areas

in post covid economic recovery because it is such a Thanks very much. Memory does a really helpful introduction into into the sector. I've got it down a couple of things, which we can come back to, but I think it would be great. If you could tell us a little bit more about the delivery of affordable housing, and we have a short video to play just before you get started. So if we could magically make that a fit, that would be great. Over to you, tell him, thank you, a kill. That was great, and thank you for inviting me. It's great to be here in Oxford.

I wanted to tell you a story about 1/4 of a houses interest to us is probably develop and what we are doing to build more affordable, housing and construction Emoji. The payload is a big part of it for us and you saw on the film at. But if I do a factory and the reason we doing that is to fold one is to increase production of Housing. And we all know about the schedule shortage and I just passed into Market house, actually built with 40,000 homes, a year as more Homes at

UK hospital is the most of those in factories, but we also believe using industrialized processes to bring down the cost of housing. If you do come most products like your telephones or your computers that you're on this television television, is that the bigger better and cheaper than the last one you got yet. Our houses are more expensive. No cheaper and arguably worse. So we think MMC can help reduce the cost of housing in a long time and I'm passionate about making all homes mobile portable. For more more people than one way to do. That is the

actual through the satellite station. The other way we do, that is by working with Lando to a sympathetic tomorrow housing. So we're working partnership with many homeowners like, UK government to whom the England, like local authorities and down the country. I like chili cheese like my costume with a shaft changing positions. Will also really interested in different ways of financial modeling in different areas, and we work with a lot of Housing search. Asians like white faces and places for people, but we'll also interested in developing new 10-year types.

We have Shadow on the shift, a social housing, affordable housing in. What's interesting in the UK is in the housing. You tend to have for sale homes in one part of the affordable housing, social housing used all the way tracks of p r s in a separate side. You can pay that can sense because if you buy a car but you know, if you by the cash, you know working person you get on contact my old ladies may be unlucky enough to be disabled and the state thinks you deserve something to you get disability will you end up in the same car? And so we're really interested in different models where

we can have multi Tanya and in place making like a place you saw in the video and I firmly believe the place is better weather next 10 years. So we're working hard at getting Terraces of houses. Like you see the scheme behind me and some for sale some food and some Chad ownership. And plus that makes better places. And it's also not just about the housing bust by the place making and where we live on the quality of our life is Mary saying before the close of the house, makes a huge difference or too often in these sorts of conferences, people to not making more more units for the public

sector. The private sector only have to have a quality. Those homes have a fundamental aspect of people's lifestyle Chauncey's. So we're passionate about making a great places. We only do that in partnership with no surprise. The most was on the plan of the woods together, using a few different types of computer butts together. They really is for us or the partnership working between the public sector during the private sector and the boiling temperature of small really high quality housing and thank you very much.

Thank you. Tom. Brady, interesting. So it had to have been out to DJ to talk a little bit. Now. We set this evening times of the need for affordable housing, how it can be delivered, who pays for it. So deep that he would be great to hear a little bit. Your perspective on attracting Global Investors into the UK affordable Market. Thank you Kaylin. Thank you for inviting me to this panel discussion. I would spend the next 5 minutes. Just looking at how the private sector Capital has been coming into an investing in the delivery of

Housing and that is just not a new phenomenon or a new way of investing and delivering a digital housing. Just lost three years. If I look back, residential was not the topic for many of the investment houses, but what we have seen today, two years later it alongside. Industrial tends to be the Pope's active investment for most of the private sector, institutional real estate Capital. What we here today is that this nearly forty billion old of capital available

to invest in the resistance. Will check the altogether of three years ago. There was only a couple of billion. People named Gene to student housing and somewhat retirement, living the latest away that I'm saying, one of them suggested the capital that was previously looking to go into the private rented sector. I see half of the capital is looking to invest, it's an acquired assets in the foldable housing sector. So what we have seen is a tremendous interest and delivery of Social and affordable housing and this number keeps on going on a quarter by quarter

basis. Let me go back to slide into the history of social housing and how it was delivered. Could just come to the 500 anniversary of the oldest social housing estate in Continental Europe. It's in Augsburg. It was built by a private family. If you live there and managed to get a unit of the program. You still paying less than 1 euro. Are you? Investing in hug thing. That's why it's both quirky complex and interesting in recent history. If I come back to the UK private sector, will celebrate housing in the UK. Are you the two of you? It's all started in the late. 19th century.

Some work in the form of garden City's, it was housing Built For the Working classes and then it sort of transform into establishing or the establishment of a number of model building companies in the early part of the twentieth century. What I found very interesting between 10 and 100 years later. After delivering, good quality, better housing for the working classes today. The international Capital, the domestic Capital still want the same level of income housing. I'll let you two talk back one at this point in time. See

that. And I think it's very easy to deduct out of the history of Housing and housing investment that this renewed interest and delivering certain affordable housing is nothing there. It is really bringing Equity back to. What is the single largest real estate sector? It was an Institutional asset class. It is again, becoming an Institutional asset class, and many reasons for this capital is looking to invest in an affordable. Housing one. I believe it is to

do that the other benefits from intergenerational occupied. I mix because it leads to higher occupancy and better than collection. Rates. Demond has substantially outweighed Supply and each passing year as we deliver less, and less affordable housing against the Devon Target. Open up. You need after this latest recession. I think that will be a greater need for affordable housing as those household who are in the lowest income quartile are the most racist. The other Klosterman Street, very clear characteristics of delivering

stable income distribution with a level of protection against both inflation on the site and inflation on the down side. So it is worth a long-term. Investor is looking for it. Provides an ability to match penchant for liabilities as it does match the commitments and the liabilities of insurance companies. So little surprised that the private sector capital is looking to come to the UK, which is one of the most confident Market from a policy perspective and invest in the sector.

Other site do that at the same time as that traditionally over the last 30 to 40 years searching and affordable housing was being delivered by the register providers. It was at the back of government funding for the last five years. Government funding has to go down. So they let the capital the level of debt in the sector has risen as registered. Providers went out to the capital markets today is dead. But more importantly, what's happened in the last 24 months? Is that the focus today for working with Captain was available

has been on delivering homes to the Future home standard. Decarbonization Target and they're building safety policies to be mad. And bought that done. Is that the capital which has previously in radius housing provider for the business plans. Are you business plan is now channel to its capital expenditure rather than delivery of new housing. Finish up with this. But I've been involved and looking at some early modeling on a second location and institutional

investors. You look at how much of your Capital should you be exposed to a certain asset class or an emerging after class, and some of the initial result suggests that 5% allocation to improve returns in a mix-up airport for you, without taking a test a little rest. Now that is strong and pretty good evidence of global Capital seeking to invest in the UK for the housing sector. And what we have found is over the last three years, that there is significant capital and greater number of conversations to be had with a large number of Tri wire

interested in coming to the sector. So, in my view, This opportunity to invest in Housing Development regeneration, modern methods of construction, and Technology, to the needs of people is going to be the next big hot exhaust with a real estate within the next 10 to 20 years, and thank you. Thank you very much DJ and just a pass on them to tabano. I think, one of the areas that you've been focused on quite heavily, yet affordable, having chest pain on the experience. Once

people are in the homes and the technology that you're using to to manage those. So, you know, I can provide it. Could you tell us a little bit about the experience of living there and somehow that's involved and how you go about it. Text Galen, it's going to be here this afternoon, and we are an institution register provider. So we will crash in the marketplace which is, which is generally populated by housing affordable housing providers. But where I want to go to small group, a grind group of organizations

that are developed, right, affordable housing, and I guess, one of the concerns of institutional funding came into effect about 10-12 years ago. And Zen grow a carrot for 4 or institutions to be operating in the affordable health inspection with his place. As AJ said, it was, it was, it was, it was populated by philanthropists in the public sector and that's one of the questions to the marketplace, has highlighted the Ralston the Rasam headwinds affecting

her today with five safety and cleaning up the stock which, which means being delivered. Concerning issues that starts that we have is a question of whether we'll talk about distribution organizations, on housing management. Customer service. Until it stops today. Look at the purse by Jay. It's what about a date. Contemplated setting up an affordable housing business. The most important thing for the great ball was yesterday organization that we cannot ever do. Anything that comes to mind is the trust and confidence of the customer in the

allergy Grande grow as quickly as we thought it was all about. How will we going to build and operate a really successful business successful in the sense that we deliver right levels of customer satisfaction. So, right from the beginning, the requirements deliver really good levels of customer satisfaction. When we look at the set. So, you know, what was the customer experience in the section, containing government's the awful events at the lack of trust and confidence, between between residences customers at my landlords, and the need to improve customer experience

in the sector, will be doing a service from from the landlord, in seeing a net promoter score of something between between - -15 + 7, depending on the last and the last year and a hundred Every single one of your customers gave you 10 out of 10, you will get a hundred times. You start get into neutral or the Tractor Service of the whole you're getting really, really papa Travis. In the marketplace is is quite poor and quite challenging. And I guess we're in a

customer if they don't have the information about to be able to address the issue. The second point is, is Alexa Alexa visibility through the supply chain. And of course, it says that you can say it. What is Wassabi? What's, what's, how how do we create a business that we thought a great a great culture of ensuring that we're constantly looking at? When a customer is not a hundred percent happy, how can we work in a way to type that sister faction up to up to satisfaction. So what we're

seeking to do is build a business where we tied together the people. But technology, the processes within with, with, with great quality, beta a frictionless of operational platform and affect the supply chain partners, and another, the manager and say we're on a journey to get to where we, we, we need to get to the really interesting challenge. Is it that stuff is going to allow it? Sasa in the business of the right time, it becomes generally between between

I'm just passing contacts First Direct in the last two. It's a crazy thing between 77 and 88 in the talk. It puts it in the top. Luffy speaking in in the in the top 5 to 10 Poseidon, but I'm told it's about maintaining consistently. Undermines us go at the moment and actually quality of high winds and the delivery of more like like the weather at Holdens highlighted is really, really essential for our business because it takes customer satisfaction rating.

Thank you very much been. So I just have a few questions based on some of the comments that kind of list of just made. If anyone else has any other questions, please feel free to send them through as well. Marry. One of the, the point you were discussing was the level of of Supply in the need for affordable to be 30% of of an individual's income. And I guess, one question that I already came to hear your opinion on this, that definition of affordable and perishable do the time because I think

one of the two points did DJ talked about, was that Evolution and and the history of the sector, but do you think that's affordable ways to find in planning requirements? In in targets? Is writing, is effective will, or should it be a bit more subjective. More localized. I mean, I think it has to be based on a local understanding of its allies in my pocket. Where are for Jenkins and so on. I think they wind up to find affordable housing, to Richard Lee in a sense of ends up, not being affordable. If you look at it. I mean, if he

mentioned back, rental books, things like issues, currently down to 10%. You have to question. So I think it just need to be more locally responsive, and I also think it needs to link more closely related with the economics of employment offer. I come see you in a number of areas where if you just pull, if you like traditional section 106 affordable, housing, it will go see people talk of the house. You need to register. If you're trying to attract employers said, they need to see where that work is going to live. They know that they're not going to going to do that. So

there's an awful lot of people currently on the call malka. And so when we we just costs and attached to turn you to a hundred rather than actually looking at how it individual access is not higher than the rest. Portable wife. And and you clearly word for the number of of developers and deliverance of affordable housing. And do you think that for the typical developer house Builder that this sort of stuff is is on the agenda as well or is actually the fact that a section 106 and quite easy to understand affordable? Requirement means that it's easier for them to get all my schemes

and you not deliver more houses than they, otherwise with you. I think it's interesting with the proposed planning reforms at Cheyenne and how they look at things like my ability test and so on. As you can hold you by saying about looking at. Maybe they'll sign manufacturing. I see it. Now. I've moved from a Housing Association / 2 holes. We always aim to deliver the section 106. So if you paid or can all rest in peace. Play when things like outside manufacturing and see if delivery and you're not just relying on unlocking styles to do it. So I think increasingly a

lot plc's as well. I looking at it and think it's more balanced view. So you moving into most secure environments markets and I think it enables you to play a lot more small cat always in pots in on it. I thank you, Anna. And I think the questions just come through that. I'd like to ask you about DJ, but just before I do falling on from what Mary said, Tom, the provision of affordable housing developers have told him, but also a long-term interest in the community is being developed through the fund management business. And

the fact that this game is typically Progresso for a number of years. Is there a benefit to developers of providing more than the section 106? Or is it the kind of in a dish? Is the requirement? That's what should be delivered. And then progressively more schemes, or should you be doing more in that particular scheme? That is just legally required. It's a good question to kill. And for every affordable house you provide, typically you make less than every house. She so cool cars. So then you can all make it with margins being typed, the Regeneration areas,. So I go to

stop at work and then I have, I do believe there's some real long-term benefits to having mixed communities and to provide a mix of uses in the particular area. We also think that's increasingly investors customers colleagues to come to work a more more interested in company social credentials and ESG, the sake of a better word would that do in the world. And so for us is about establishing. Our reputation is more than just the bottom line about how to make a difference in our communities, how would

changing the world a little bit and we would hope that we can show a good return. No, always eventual. Fondue to love is not enough food with housing from the such most of the people in that are paying your twenty, 25% of the salaries of the 30% on the 4:30 Mark. I put the average wage but always so we're trying to show each other and still do it. Turns up 10% and achieving not in the past couple years. So I do believe fundamentally could actually doing the right thing. Can also give good financial terms. I think Mary's

examples of the crates and I'm so pissed. A lot of sunlight are great examples of a century century, 21st century. We can try to emulate those by creating great communities. I don't associate with $7 shareholders. And I think that that that question about the returns to shareholders, that was really interesting and one that hopefully DJ and Ben can help us with one of the questions from the audience is, there's a strong desire by some developers to embed yesterday and sustainability into that business model and make themselves and their

affordable housing, projects position does impact investment to say that investors might not be interested because you do the lower. Can you discuss how this is being managed in the UK? And secondly, what are the average yield for sustainable projects today traditional open market affordable. So, I don't know DJ, if you want to dance of investor perspective. I could give the short answer and I'll let Penelope, right? I always think and I think this is one of those

maxims you learn as a designer that good design does not need to cost any more than a bad design. It is the same for ESPN top 10 ability. You need to be conscious of what you're wanting to deliver what you intend to deliver and how you deliver it. And it's not a matter of you being Keener or less. Oh, it is more about the desire and then pack you want to bring that bag that would lead to the outcomes of the first to go into a radius of 10 ability in the

season. Supposed PSG w e s c a r starting on the way from 2009 to 2010. So we have bad history of Daniel. When we launched a social impact wrestling 2017-18. It was one of the first ones of history of experience. At CVS. You just need to set up. The objective you're looking to deliver and then find the means to do so and I think this tremendous support from the investment community and the investors to deliver greater and higher standards, which I'm sure Ben

will be able to reserve a table at Jen are doing about it. Yes, I said it's an interesting question. I mean, the so so expect to get him a joke about a story for Poseidon and then suddenly the, what the world expects there, to try and see returns of 3 and 1/2 and both you. And I between 4 and 1/2, + 4 and 1/2 to send the original funding one thing to come into the space because it could affect me the cash. But I was generating dexilant which ones, which is exactly what you

wanted. If you thought pension from cashing, a trying to match your liabilities, so they were all business, most of all businesses from Dish Society, father into Pension funds money. Allergy index and index links with her as an e, s g business for the purpose of saying it is a nasty business, but we are passionate about to pay for us. How can we get to being in that and that's a road call. But business a note gration, by by being annexed. How do I how do I accelerate sell jewelry tools that they were talking about program or

5800 time in face, and I will leave PCB So we just think and say we all right, because we accelerate working at space because it's possible and necessary as well. So I guess you really radio. Just died at Webber sector can be so that the rest of the sector will hopefully coffee and accelerate and will accelerate the pace of change right across the sector. And it seems like there is definitely been institutional appetite for not just the affordable sector in the UK, but also to do it in the right way and not just cracking up Supply. But also mindful of Quality Inn and environmental impact that I

suppose. My question given also that a number of analysts have had experience both in the private sector, but also with a publico Housing Association, how tall is that? Anything that the government could do in order to? And I wouldn't say it's a trickle but 210 institutional investment in the sector from a trickle to a chore into a really open up the floodgates and accelerate the provision massively. Are there any initiatives that you can think of? That would be helpful to channel funding but that's the way it is possible.

What is the barriers to access to become a registered provider, which is not. The regular, was never really set up to contemplate from operating in this place. So, so, so very funny thing is, is the changes. The government needs to make weeks rather than fundamental changes to the states. And in San Clemente this week set that exist for the prophet pliers to put in place with institutional plastic wheel price on the same Level Playing Field as organizations that it would be a lot more straightforward. We

still have to pay. Insights is not is not expecting any of those things to be removed. Like a leaf, I might be just remind me and busted. I'm developing the big institutions and if you look at the balance sheets off the lodge, all pays on a high Vantage resource. I'm not cost too fine on time for a long time. So I sent, you know, that wall of money. It's finding its way it in different ways. It's generation, whether it's through are accessing bombs or whether it's through direct me to the front as

well. I'm so I think it's looking out of it. It it's looking at it and there's been a big deal with in the Housing Association sex. I'm about to be into the sector, which has always been so you can do it, but seems like the treatment of historic run on has associations filing, Chase. That's just been a long debate about whether you could pray a lot more capacity today. I think his best friend says that there's some very small scale tweaks. It could to remove some of the incentives for new entrants to the market. I will still keep in a very strong regulation

within the sector, which is essential. Thanks very much and tell him you've been you've been picked on here a little bit. So the importance of mixed mixed communities and the houses behind you, in the ones we saw in the video all look great and really appealing but they also will look very similar. Have you explored any options to increase the light kind of level of diversity, in the neighborhood by looking at what you can do with the facades and construction types. Yummy Pho. Good questionnaire for Michael and is chewed up to MMC, to be efficient. You do

need a lot of repetition and is watching car factories to call Factory. Doesn't build the laundry room week in the middle of next week and Rovers will minis. Unlock wise with all I'm housing Factory. We want to go to the same store. Cool. What time is it in college? So we can cut these in a slight sand, wood and brick are in metal. In any material, you like to argue the point that I thought you got petition, doesn't necessarily Depot design an example. I

would use it was the ubiquitous Georgian townhouse, which we see in all our towns and cities. Your double front to Georgian. Brick symmetrical. Town house is beautiful. We love it is in. London, is in Monsters, in Bristow is in Liverpool, and some of the most highly desired streets. I like that. Behind me is make a reinvention of the Victorian Terrace and it gave me CDs and velocities and very successful in the lost. And how busy is different with a little bit of a balcony, or

different color with different finish to me. That's not important. What's the mental desire design, soap, Winston's August. You know, how it is? It, is it me out rules? And I can see how you arranged to the house. We have high ceilings much higher than the big Windows. Susie's fundamental things about high ceilings, big windows in the flexibility that I think is really important and I think in many ways will create a much better streetscape that I see is about, people is about, pedestrians about giving back something to the streetscape row of an endless, variety of you

build housing in cul-de-sacs, which are called donated. So, the money is more, Replace make egg on the style onion Home Design. Robin SS over the garage. Thank you very much. And we have one final question, which it would be great to just get some brief bullets on. And then we can, maybe leave in a couple of minutes early, so that people have time to get where they, they want a whole quickly break before. The next one is institutional investment in affordable. Housing has emerged relatively recently. How have you felt comfortable with the potential long-term capital

expenditure exposure? And how do you want to write an exit in the long-term? So more focus on bending and DJ? Shower quick outside. So I think it's a really interesting question because being a bit of what life cycle costs call Stone on Long Island, save to enter in in the acquisition of what is really interesting will need to be where the pasta recipe for chicken to be greater than the long-term allowance in terms of electrical circuit a Worx Electric electrical activity. Why is it that the

value is have not yet? I'm clocked on to the fact that the home that is is is is a PCA or has backed away from that same exact. Text. Sammy p c b o s e ho interesting question. Will, you know, either way. Better decision-making, education, affordable, housing sector institutions to retrofit cost nation in the crisis, really, really interesting area that has to be moving stuff into Washington scored. Most of what I would have responded to on this one. I suppose the key. As always understanding

your rate of depreciation on any asset and started drawing from understanding your boy at a point in time because what it does. Drawing, your uncle maintenance cyclical, maintenance and long-term maintenance, and then you factor that in your own, the writing, the sector has, it's fine. That is the capital that has relatively new in terms of investing in affordable, housing, affordable, housing, sector, and its own Droid has got a vast set of information point that one could pro-pain

so but it takes a bit. I mean that's why it's somewhat. I need sector to invest in and I'll pray then What? It is hiding under a table and What needs to go in with eyes open and effectively, understand the level of depreciation and the return, the bone. Great. Thank you. Very hopeful answer. So I think that's what was about time for work. But thank you very much to all about my list. I found that extremely interesting. The attendees didn't always a good sign and thank you for joining us at this. Don't trust conference. Hope that you can join us

again next year. I'm never number sessions on tomorrow as well. So will you find those interesting storm, Mary DJ in Bend?