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Preparing for Post Cookie Advertising
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About the talk

As the future of advertising is changing, all digital advertising players will have to reengineer their advertising and data strategies to function without third-party cookies. This panel will discuss not only the changes that need to be made but also the advertising opportunities that lie ahead.

About speakers

Jason Wagenheim
President & Chief Revenue Officer at Bustle Digital Group
Nancy Hall
EVP, Eastern Region & Head of Outcome Based Marketing at Matterkind
John Gentry
CEO at OpenX
Michelle Zatlyn
Co-founder and COO at Cloudflare

Seasoned media and marketing executive with more than 20 years experience in management functions for some of the industry’s most notable media brands. Proven track record for delivering high-impact, integrated media opportunities for advertisers, industry buzz and innovation, and a reputation for leading sales organizations to record-breaking profitability and success. Well-rounded sales & operations background—overseeing functions like sales, marketing, client service, creative, video, fundraising, M&A and integrations, revenue operations, product innovation and important company culture and team development initiatives.

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I am a Senior Leader within the digital marketing space who has experience on the AdTech, Publisher and Agency sides of the industry. I have built Programmatic strategy and Trading teams, Search, Social and Commerce teams, Sales organizations, Client services teams, Tech services teams and New business teams. I am skilled at developing new revenue streams, building businesses, change management, leading large organizations, growing billings and revenue and consultative solution selling. I am a strategic thinker and have excellent tactical execution skills. I have experience in Digital Media, Programmatic, Addressable, Big Data and Audience Activation/Targeting, Branding and Performance, Cross Device matching and methodology, Display, Mobile, Video, Audio, DOOH advertising programs and more. My vast experience Includes (but is not limited to): commercial modeling, managing P&Ls, operations, CRM data strategy, Addressable programs, consulting and building Retail Media Networks, Behavioral and Contextual Targeting, Look Alike Modeling, Predictive Modeling, Data Syndication, Cross Device/Cross Environment Marketing and Tracking, Personalization, Video/ATV/CTV, R&F Analysis, Closed Loop Attribution, Tracking and Tagging, Optimization, Incrementality Testing, Brand Lift, CRM, Lead Generation and Social Solutions. My vertical experience is varied and includes; Pharma, OTC, CPG, Energy, Government, Retail, Travel, Financial, Telco, QSR, Automotive, Entertainment.

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Michelle Zatlyn is co-founder and COO of Cloudflare, an Internet performance and security company running one of the world’s largest networks. Michelle has been named a Young Global Leader by the World Economic Forum and to Fortune’s 40 Under 40 list.

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All right. So first question softball, introduce yourself and tell everybody like what's the one thing you're most excited to learn or share over the next couple days. Okay. I think I get my name and title, right? I'm Jason, wagenheim Chief Revenue, officer and president of bustle digital group. I think what I would love to pick up over the next couple days, it's more of a challenge that I put out to the audience. I'm challenged every day 85% of our Revenue comes from branded content could all the upper funnel stuff and I've got it now. Move people down the funnel and actually

start converting on my platform with the work. I'm doing for the top brands that I'm working with. So it's a regular challenge, a mask all the time. We've tried a bunch of shit and nothing's work yet. So I'd love to talk to you if you have an idea for me. Great. I'm John Gentry seat with openx. What's been on my mind? A lot recently, as how do we protect the future of the open web. I think it really matters. We've been doing some research with Harris really soon, but that's that's top of mine for me. Michelle's outline of the co-founder and CEO of a company called cloudflare. I'm a

technology company over there are. Definitely some big changes going on in. So sure that we're going to go to town today that I have some people leave feeling inspired that there's actually an opportunity here for new business is going forward. I'm nasty how I'm the SVP of programmatic at kadrian, where programmatic agency about what I want to leave you. In this conference with a community garden has an actual Garden where we all dance together and see if we can actually have a dress ability across both and measure a crossbow.

That's a whole panel is preparing for post cookie advertising. So I guess. Question, number one, easy. There's been rumors that you're going back. At least we were you surprised at the timing and and why or why not? Definitely not surprised at the timing. I mean the cookie has talked about the cookie crumble and for years, the demise of the cookie was going to come. They have expedited it along with apple and Firefox, but I believe that it is the right thing to do. The cookies flawed. I believe it is the right thing to do and it gives us an opportunity an opportunity to

create something better. Other not surprised we got to learn before this and while they spoke about it in different ways. It was very clear that I think that they needed to make this action. Yeah, I know surprise for us either. I think it's been a house of cards to eat at gdpr CCPA. You know, now that I think there's a fractured trust with some of the big platforms and consumers as of late. It's it's bound to happen, you know, our opportunity really on the digital lifestyle Publishers is

really that of contextual targeting. I think that's really where it where it exists for us. Not surprised. I think some things are changed would help explain the context. What's going on is just been a lot of consolidation or centralization of power for on the internet and that's kind of different things. Some consumer people woken up and said, wait, what are you doing with my data? Which is why it's not surprising. I do think it's give me a rocky path forward and these conversations are just getting started. And as we look at Lucy's in privacy balancing. Okay, how do we use text

for good versus making versus making sure? People still feel like they can control their data is going to be a lot topic for the next five. 10 years is not going away. And so I think we're very early Innings and understanding the past forward. And so just had to leave apple and Firefox out of the conversation today. That's 30% of the ecosystem. And, you know, for all the right reasons were focused on Google. That's some of the opportunity, like your son dancing from. This is how we can get a better that

also reflects somebody upset. We can get relative to where we are today is to make that segment of the traffic work better as well. So, one other question, the kind of shape the discussion and this will be a little bit of purple, but let's say that each of the four of us are going to Vegas. You have to bet your life savings over under Google said two years. Are you taking the over or under? I'm taking you over there going to be longer than 2 years. Yeah. Right under

gdpr. I mean we it's here and we have to come up with a solution. Now I take the under just because who the hell knows what's going to happen between now? And the next 2 years, 24 months. I mean, what's the on-time as expected? I'm not really allowed to add content, but I will add one, which I had a conversation with someone from Google in the ad Platte division last week. And I don't think this is going to happen to think that the doj is going to change this decision or Google's going to reverse the

two years. We said up to two years. So I thought I would tell you but I'm curious. How is this changing your tactics and and Anthony start with you because you manage so much spend I mean Change of the movie MASH supply and demand. So it will impact and it will impact my business to. But today, we already have a lot of our Channel mix in a TV and Ott CTV even in digital out-of-home. So Cookie list environment. We are already testing CRM data layer, on the pub side. Season pmt's, we even are already doing some

attribution working as beta house. So we are we are ready. We are testing different salute. It's not going to change people based marketing for me. It's not going to change the fact that I have to measure across channels, but it will change my process in the way I go about doing it. So that we're not just makes zero money from advertising, so I don't change anything. But what I am seeing from some other ad-tech companies, is people are coming to our technology company and and and what I've seen from different ad-tech companies, who sang. Hey, how can

we use technology solution that can actually operate in a in a world where third-party cookies are not allowed? And so, they're saying, how do I re platform eye solution to build to operate in a world where third-party cookies aren't allowed to the technology industry or say. Okay. How do we do that? How do we do this in a, in to build a good business case? And I think those were the big winners over the next few weeks years. Yeah, I think for us it's a two-pronged approach. Are they want, is the obvious which is to make sure we understand what we're going to

do with privacy sandbox. And how I think that's the Baseline in terms of how they do free would operate. It at the same time to everything people say a we're deeply invested working with Publishers to go past that. Right? And I think this is an inflection point for the industry, which is either we're going to really come out with a much better enablement of people based more. Can you please open web and we've had in the past or not? We're going to fall backwards more towards contextual strongly or we can come out with a better solution with the good thing about Google. Making the call

at 2 years. Is it sends a signal but it doesn't send us all about. How do we want to barge that for overtime? So we're deeply invested work on what they can do all those Partnerships, but how did they navigate and move for the world when they can label People based marketing and not rely on the Privacy sandbox of the browser. As much as we have in the past. I'm coming at it from a different standpoint, you know, only 10% of my business is programmatic. It's actually nice to be at a conference for a change with 2,000 people and I only know, like, four of them. I don't think

Intex Pools taking a step backwards. I think that's why we've been building our entire, the entire thesis for our company on is that premium content? Great up, premium, content Publishers, whether that's old-school Conde Nast for Meredith for new guys, like us in popsugar. Advice and Refinery, we can be successful by producing a ton of content delivering it to audiences and engaging them its scale and helping accomplish against some of those up for funnel. Funnel thing, you know, the pieces for bustle is that we can be a successful digital media business these days, even though that's hard to

imagine by having a portfolio of brands at all can exist, independently, answer, vertical, Niche audiences, but also operate his collections across broader audiences deliver scale. So, I'm excited. Cuz I think what this will do is put some downward pressure on the, on the open market. It will put up word pressure on the pnp's and programmatic county jails. I think you'll start to weed out some of the Bad actors like we were talking about. But I'm all about context content is King, but I think at the same time, OK, Google Facebook or taking 65% spend with

35% of the Facebook's data. So I don't disagree. Some companies can do can cats grow really well, but I think that this is also an opportunity for us to figure out how to do context. Go really well, but I think if you open web doesn't matter managed to go out and attack what Facebook is doing an offer us, you know, similar solution of markers at the Bible that dichotomy and spend is going to persist. And so there's no one answer. I think what we're talking about as a series of solutions, but that's just what

is better than untargeted. But addressable contextual is better than just an extra one of a handful of vertical. So are your your your area is premium and and so your focus as if it were to go, but in general contextual yields lower cpn's than the dress will for publisher and it's not the best consumer experience. I don't think if it's not addressable and it is straight contextual. So I just agreeing and I believe the ultimate is addressable contextual but I believe that addressable is king. Sorry. What you going to do with those cookies. I think

that's a big question, Nancy. Like, you know, we have we have a ton of tmp's turned on the pad. Rounded is an example and we either get, you know, a little bit of money or a lot of money, but most of it, most of the stuff is coming through. The pipes isn't necessarily, you know, enough Revenue. So I'm wondering like in an in a cookie list. World were all talking about having this identifier, something to replace the cookie. How, how do, how does Google and have the big trading desks like Hatchery on reward, premium, Publishers for delivering? Like I said that the future is

what I text when I'm testing today what I believe the future is and this is my personal opinion is going to be layering the data on the publisher side and in. So doing guaranteeing scale and reach to my advertisers and ensuring that we have a partnership that today we may not have but a stronger 121 partnership. So that's my brand CRM data can match your first-party data and then back and then be run in a PG or in a PMP of our tribe believe that I believe that this business will go more towards that, then the open exchange and the

volume that's in the open exchange today. All these ads back from the server-side and and in a world where their surveillance technology where you can run that coat out of the edge. You don't have the performance tax anymore. And so I think it's it's it's more third-party cookies. It's the world is going to go back to the Publishers, serving the cookies, from their own server, using this new technology of server list. And actually, I think you're going to get a long way there to help bridge the gap. One of every publisher has a different identity graph

and their hundreds of those that exist. Then I don't have a way to control for frequency across everybody within my thought and that's not tenable. The advertisers. The brands are not going to want to spend the budgets if they can control for frequency of consumers. It's not a good experience like an opportunity to have to figure out how to resolve identity on their side. I think there's been a lot of discussion about a Publisher's ability to capture an email, and it's been a lot of time in the conversations about this. And if you're a large

publisher, like CVS Publishers, we're looking at different. Chelation is got to be. This is where I think there's some real areas for growth and ideas, which is, is it something like what net idea to do it in Germany, where you got to log in Alliance, where they're working together across? I firmly. Believe this, as we're at the inflection. Point resolving, who, that individual is for the publisher, who's the only other point of consumer contact. The browsers are stepping back some, except all the way back to

Publishers, need to step forward into that. And really find a way to resolve without user is and then protect that user as needed in partnership with others, so that we can resolve it for the I think, I think you're raised a really important point in something that's been keeping us up at night, and we think a lot about it. We've been working really hard to help. Our first party ride primarily through emails. That's, that's the obvious place for us to go. I think the more questions you ask that you start to sacrifice scale, you know, I don't know if you consider us larger or mid-tier, but

we're sixty million uniques across our our planet. What would you consider the letter? A Metal art, Publishers Lake us. We are we sat? We would sacrifice scale and I think a lot of what the value proposition for pup, sugar. Refinery Vice BuzzFeed bustle. Digital group is that we can reach a ton of people very quickly with the hundreds of articles that were publishing every single week that are very contextually relevant for any given vertical. You know, how do we, how do we maintain that scale and also up the first party.

The whole concept of a lightweight user registration, get it warm or Publishers are embracing that, but going back to Nancy's comment. Well, that's kind of chaotic. If every single publisher has their own lightweight reg process cuz she needs to frequency cap across the entire open left. I mean, this is this going to be a problem. You're dealing with right now is the million dollar question is, are we work together? Right? I think that's the most fundamental question to Facebook, and I think if I can work together

and start to look at a way to unify that idea, cross Publishers. I think we're all connected. Think about, from the perspective of a consumer has control of your ID. I don't want to go to CVS in decide. I don't want them to have my ID anymore. I don't want to go to the bustle and say please take my Adida. I want to build a think about that and more centralized way. I think this is Republic. Need to find a recognized that if they Do work together, the benefits in terms of scale, the benefits in terms of regular navigating regulatory the benefits in terms of proposition to Nancy really

start to get outstanding but it's, it doesn't seem to be in the historical Nature Republic to do that. The IAB should take charge of this. Somebody needs to just Wrangle us all together. I am off for collaboration. I think we need to do it were competing or not. You're 100% right? And I think it's a perfect project for it for the email or hash phone. Number does not work. You could argue that cookies are more picture of a privacy. Standpoint been, hashed owner has to email but I agree that the IV

and industry has decreed that industry standard. Haha, I want to cry, please everybody. They have the ability to take that. Take that idea, that that personal ID, Protect it, and basically put it in my DL for you. You can pass through the Manti safely. So I think there's no solution. You guys are talking about, you're talking about this. Well, we've got a solution in market today. That is addressing this. I do think that it's in a work early days. We got to keep stealing it up, but there's no question, which part of how does a

publisher take in an idea on their site and safely activating transact on it? Cuz the first part is get it. I think there's another part, which is make sure that you think about regular, or you can send another issues in terms of controlling it. And then there's the activation layer, which is, how do we take it across the market, to the buy side of the Safeway, they can be can be brought against Past emails are not the answer and a long tale of thousands of authentication events that causes Nancy to lose her mind. Also not the answer. Either. One of those

is is scalable or safe. So I'm just curious. Like if you could tell the folks out here, like 123 kind of must go dues after hearing this discussion to go solve this problem. What would they be? I mean for my side of your publisher in the room, all three of you. What kind of bagel flies a plain bagel It Go from from my side. It's about just you know your content and make sure you're tagging it appropriately with, you know, with Watson and and LU apis were able to tag with 144

different, you know, keywords are our content and it's done automatically with our editors. If they put something up on lipstick there might be seven or eight content tags on that to make sure that we can then, you know, put contextual targeting content. That's the biggest thing for us right now. Making sure we have a handle on our content. Mine is the immediate care publisher into the actual go to an audit of all the third party cookies that show up on your properties.

You just want to be prepared like, what are all the third party cookies and then you figure out what to do about them to start with at least having one list of what? What it all is and then you can go basically turn on in a private browsing to see you how you're safe and then go start to work with. You are those those those third-party cookies companies to find out? Are they coming out with a different solution or knowing where you stand? Having an audit actually is a really good. Actual thing everyone can do, I'm going to stay

for the brand sides brands that have faces of known users and attributes about them and have relationships with those consumers are in a fantastic position, but protect those relationships and protect that day too. And be careful what you do with it brands that don't immediately start to build out a database of known users with attributes of appended to those profiles. And in order to gather that you need to explain, the value is changed to a consumer. What are they going to get in return for giving you their

information? Because we all know that it is a good experience for the consumer. When you have that information and then find a data lake or some kind of a database, all of the different groups within your organization can house and put that data and where that. Syndicated out of platforms and where data can come in the ingested so that you can further of him those profiles and know more about those known consumers. Mine would be if your publisher and Gage and gets part about the stuff really fast. I think that the there's been a tendency when you're one of many

to sit back sometimes I think there's a real need here. I read with privacy sandbox is how they how they are setting that up and then dig in on the ID side, realize it while the bags change for 19, might not be super clear today. There's ideas a lot of creative ideas. I think a lot of people like, I think if you're a platform Like Us in the middle, if you're not thinking about how to participate in the future vision and thinking about how to add a partner with Publishers on the by-side to, to really work on the activation side of this, you're, you're, you're missing the game and I think on the

buy side, with just had to get a lot of folks in a room from by Static and say, please be willing to experiment with your budgets. I know it's easy. I know Facebook makes it really easy to do to the people side. There's a lot of companies like ourselves. Jason. What does we start figure this out? We've got two years to figure out a better way, but to do that, we need to put spend through the ecosystem against very targeted. Our activities experiments that I would say. Please be open and leave for to help us get a better answer. We won't have it right away. We will have it over time, but

I would really prefer is an ass, but you guys did that. So those are good. Go dues for the vast majority of the audience included, our folks, from the walled Gardens themselves. So, if you could have one asked of them, short of reversing the decision or, or Safari reversing, their their actions, what would it be? What would you like to see them? Do let us end. We've been working very closely with Facebook and Instagram on big campaign for major advertisers like Macy's or likes before I like Alta and that when we

are able to work with them and how we distribute, the content that were created from you. If they can stay in their Lane in and just be you don't have the recent they have and let us have a great mechanism to distribute our content. Our world would be a better place. El Salvador coronavirus. I think to whatever you're going to do, what? You please, give us some time to work against it. I think it's been great to get two years of notice. But if we can lock down, what you're going to do with enough lead time, that would be great for

Apple. I would say, please pause or give us give us notice on the demise of the IDF a what's a lot of people are talking about could potentially happen and please be open to partnering, maybe not so much with Google. But maybe with Publishers on thinking about, is there a way you can work with the publishing Community to address identity. And what do you feel good? If it would respect your consumers with your browser, but at the same time protecting allow the open web to continue to flourish in and get the span of the open web could have so that the content keeps growing. And

then meet Lee thing thing came to mind, was don't be, don't be evil. And I think they were at a Crossroads where Google give me a really amazing partner in this and help her. Leader and holding a new format emergence. Going to be better and better for Publishers like to hear versus a worst world. So I think that's that cuz I absolutely agree like the internet. That's free. And open is way better than if everything goes behind World. Carter's, it drives entrepreneurship and creativity. And so many people

Apple economically. Like, there's so many good things there. Be a shame if that one away, my ass would be of Google. I love Google as a consumer, Anna marketer, but I would ask that if it's going to be aggregate. Cheapest aggregate for the whole industry. Including yourselves. Don't take granular, level data for yourself and only give everyone else aggregate Level. Playing Field nearing the end of our time. So I'm going to Ask one last question. We have a reunions, all five of us and three years and we look back on this discussion

and think about what, what is transpired, who are the winners for the losers? I'm going to say the winners are the Publishers that have a lot of first-party data and good relationships with their consumers and the losers. This is just my personal opinion, dmg's, and third-party data brokers. The weather is are the companies that exists like in between of all this, whose use this changing environment to say. Hey, I'm going to Cowboys it likely than others were going to say, let's solve this problem and let's make it better. The winners will be the Publishers that that, that that

the continued to create great content that people around the world. And I actually think consumers, will be one or two, because I think it's going to be better off where they're going to still be great content, but they're going to feel more in control of their privacy and I actually think that's a good thing. I was I think that consumers will be the ultimate winner is if we do this driveway and that really matters, I think the second thing is Publishers, the Publishers that lean in and it really embracing your reality and take control of their relation of the consumer or

going to be winners. And I think the folks are probably going to be the biggest losers are going to be everybody's the ad Tech ecosystem to sit between the buy-side and sell-side and don't figure out how to play for. Tractive high-integrity, role in this process. I think the losers of the Bad actors, which is what you're sort of alluding to. And I think the winners of the other losers in this equation. Are these small here, Publishers, who are relying exclusively on branded content don't have first-party data and are there, they're just knock and I think you're going to continue to see a

consolidation within my side of the business and a small guy. So either get caught with a go-away. Awesome! Jason John, Michelle. Fancy. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with you.

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Jason Wagenheim
Nancy Hall
John Gentry
Michelle Zatlyn