On a Mission

Our first guests at this year's dealbook conference, on our 20-year anniversary is Tim Cook. The CEO of Apple, the second largest company in the world. We all try to make sense of this moment and the moment heightened scrutiny of Silicon Valley and it was Supply, chains, privacy, security, mental, health issues are competition. The shifting roll with CEOs and then employ activism climate change globalism. And, of course Innovation, there is no one I would want to talk to you more in Tim Cook. She took over from Steve Jobs, of course, it's a decade ago and under his leadership. Apple

now has more than a billion active iPhone users across the globe, company's value has increased from 348 billion dollars to a 2.5 trillion dollars. He is dare. I say one of the most consequential Business Leaders on the planet, and of our time. And tell him, I want to thank you for being here. To help us kick things off Sandra. And thanks for inviting me. I am looking forward to the conversation. I'm telling you know, you are marking your own anniversary in this job 10 years since the passing of Steve Jobs and I thought we could actually start there because in many ways you could

help set the table for the day. If it feels like we're at the start of unique inflection point, especially when it comes to technology, which is done. So many remarkable things for the planet, but we're also now having to Grapple with the impact of that technology. On the way. We live our lives in ways that perhaps for unforeseen before and it feels to me like you'd be very fascinating to me. Try to understand how you see this moment and really happy how your job has changed over the last decade. I'm still very optimistic Andrew and I I

look at technology and I think about all the things that we can do in the future if technology is used to serve humanity and not the other way around. And so, you know, whether it's 10 years or are longer. I always think about the user and or are we doing the right thing to the company to help improve their logs and Empower them to do things. They have it done before with my 10-year anniversary. I'm also thinking about 10 years without Steve and so it's a bit of a sad time to 4 for me thinking about that,

you know, from my point of view. He was the inventor of the entrepreneur of the decade, or at the century rather, and, and there's just nobody quite like him and I, I miss him every day. You don't need to talk about Apple being at the intersection of technology and humanity. And a boy, are we at that moment? Now in terms of some of these larger questions that have been raised around privacy and mental health in so many other things. What is he would think of this? I think she would be happy to see what apple is doing

and apples role in helping people and helping improve their lives in and still caring deeply about the products that we put out and how they are used. And so forth. I think in terms of the broader issues, I think she knew some of them were coming. I mean, he talked about privacy over a decade ago and the company decades are go to to, to fight for people's privacy, but you know, he, he said something very simple. He said that people should know what they're signing up for that. You should ask them repeatedly for their permission in

plain language and you look back and it's so simple, but you hadn't been so profound that that hasn't been the case many times. And so I think he had the vision to know that a lot of these issues were coming, you know. The number of a big boobs and changes in fact in terms of the operating system around the iPhone in the past year around privacy specifically to give users the access an option Audi effectively say no I don't want to be tracked. We're starting to learn the impact of that, not just on users themselves, but on some

of the companies and developers on your platform, collectively appears that they've been estimates that the companies like Facebook and Google and others have lost about ten billion dollars in Revenue, as a function of not being able to track users. Do you think that's a good thing? I don't know about the estimate to Android so I can't I can't testify to those kind of numbers but I think that privacy is a basic human, right? And that the people that oughta be deciding, whether the data shared is the person themselves.

And so what we've been All about is putting the power with a user. We're not making the decision. We're just simply prompting them to be asked if they want to be tracked across apps or not. And of course, many of them are deciding no and never wanted to be, it's just that they didn't have a choice before and in. So I feel really good and I'm getting great feedback from users about having the okay. So what do you do? Personally? And I will tell you. I also ate there sometimes where I'll say, you can track me while the app is open and times that they can track me

all the time. Very rare. Actually, that I take you tracked me all the time and a lot of time at all. I do a combination of those two and into to me. It depends on the trust of the developer. You know, dude, that's a great question. How do you know? I'm not sure you really know definitively, but you have a feel. And I think the companies that are more, trusted are likely getting very different results than those that are not trusted. That's fascinating in terms of, in terms of that trust. Obviously, one of the

companies that scum under a lot of fire for trust is Facebook. When you think about what we've seen over the last several months, in terms of use this, come out around mental health and the way teenagers use phones, but maybe more in particular, use apps. I'm curious what your reaction is Ben's. All of that will help is one of the most important topics of the time, and I think it's been taboo for for so long. It hasn't been out where people felt free to talk about it. And then I think it deserves great research and and

study and that all of us should care about making products that help people's mental health. Not not plays against them. Do you work on adding screen time and and all sorts of other features? But then they were apps on the platform that now all Raven questions, like Instagram like Facebook. We've heard, you know, Marc benioff say the Facebook is who could live with Tobacco Company. Does it make you rethink what apps are allowed on the platform? Think about the tools that were providing into to make sure that we're providing great tools for people? Ultimately. I think it's the

person's choice, but I knows it. When we implemented Springtime. I found that I was doing things. I didn't know I was doing and in. So I think having sort of a truth point where you can't deny that you're spending, you know, X hours a week on on things that you might not want to spend extra hours a week on or getting hundreds of notifications in the day. These kind of things. It's it's powerful what the data will do to your behavior. And I know that I changed my behavior. Based on on-screen

Todd, I think social media apps, represent terms of time, spent something like 40 or 50% of the amount of time on this Earth. Why do you think that's healthy? I think it depends on the person and really, I think, it depends on what you're doing. I think, if you're scrolling mindlessly or letting yourself be spun off on negativity. I think this is bad. I think it's bad for your mental health. I think it's bad for the people around you and inside, but I think the person that ultimately has to decide that is that is that person? And what we have to do is provide

the information for them to be able to do that. One of the big debates over this past year has been about the App Store itself and the role and power that the app store has. Obviously there's an ongoing lawsuit related to Epic. What there's larger questions about. Platforms and the power and influence of those platforms. And curious how you think about that. I wanted to mention you, let you know, just recently, Mark, Zuckerberg was talking about his new metaverse said, the disc. Has been humbling and you said, living under their rules. I think he

was referring to. Apple has profoundly changed my view on the tech industry. Bigfoot for the App Store. Andrew. We, we invented the App Store to give people the ability to customise their phones more, and to give developers the opportunity of a lifetime to bring their products to Market. And if you look at it, when we started in 2007, we can have an app store because we couldn't figure out how to achieve the security in the privacy of their customers would want from that. The following year. We open the app store and we did so with a human review and

rules. And if you now look at it, what that is done, is we've gone from 500 apps to over 2 million. And so there's been an explosion of innovation in the in the area that have been great for consumers and it's been an incredible business opportunity for developers as well. And so sort of everyone has one from from this end, but the only way it works is if you can have trust and confidence in that in that Commerce solution, as you know, the internet has become a dark place in too many spots and you

don't trust that you don't trust enough to put in your credit card data. You don't trust enough that sings Do What They report to do. And so having a place where that trust is built in has been really Chief Ross and and and key for developers and Kiefer users. And so that's what the App Store is all about. We got a couple questions up from from readers at the head of this conversation. And one of them actually relates to this issue of giving users, the option ality on the issue of privacy. And how do you think about that relative to

the optionality of what might be described as side loading or the App Store that is effectively. The question is, in one case. You're you're effectively providing access to make your own choice. And then the other you aren't and why that is a choice. You want to sideload, you can buy Android phone. You know, it's sad that that choice exists when you go into the carrier shop. If that's important to you. Then you should buy an Android phone from from our point of view. It would be like if I were an automobile manufacturer

of telling me telling me not to put airbags and seatbelts on a car, you just you would never think about doing this. And in today's time. It's just too risky to to do that and it so it wouldn't be an iPhone if it didn't maximize security and privacy. We were thinking about the issue of fees, because, of course, that's, that's Central to the debate around the power. If you will have having a store like this, obviously epic, his attitude over it people, like Barry Diller of called a criminal to charge 30%. I've made the argument, by the

way, if you, if you went from 30% to 20% in buried with people would say it's still not low enough and needs to get to 10% And if you got the 10% they say needs to go to 5, but is there a, is there a moment with you said yourself, your success is so great that the responsibility changes in some way. If you look at it Andrew 85% or so the apps on the store. The the commission is 0. Because there's not a decided to Commerce happening in the app. And so the vast majority are zero. And then if you look at the, the others of the vast majority of

developers like 98 99 cent pay 15% because we announced the small developer program back in the beginning of the year are back last year and it was effective at the beginning of the year and that lower commissions from 3215. We've also over the years change things like subscriptions in the second year and Beyond to 15%. And so the commission has only Fallen. They only go down and the way that I look at it is that the most important thing for us is to maintain the security and privacy of the iPhone.

That's the most important thing. Everything else can evolve. You know, we had the developers wanted to have more price points that they could sell the apps for and so we're allowing more price points. And so you'll see you seen many changes in the past and you'll see more changes in the future, but the most important thing sort of our our Northstar, if you will is about security and privacy, while we're on the issue of payment. I have to ask because we got a slew of questions about it. What's your thought on cryptocurrency right now and potentially accepting it through Apple

pay or otherwise? It's something that we're looking at. It's not sending. We have immediate plans to do, I wouldn't do like our cash balance. I wouldn't go invested in crypto, not because I wouldn't invest my own money and crypto, but because I don't think people buy an Apple stock to get exposure to crypto. And so if they want to do that, they can they can you know, in just to wreck lee in crypto or three other means it's I wouldn't do that and I'm not planning to an immediate future to take crypto for our products as it has a

mean of tender. But there are other things that we are definitely looking at like what like I wouldn't want to have anything till nails today. You might not do it personally. I think it's reasonable to us as a part of a diversified portfolio, and I'm not giving anybody. When when did you get interested in it for a while? And you know, been researching it and and, and so forth. And so I think a lot of people I don't know if you talked about this publicly

before people going to say that you're a Bitcoin bull. It's something that from a personal point of view. I'm and I'm interested in. Wallflower on the top of what it? What about nfts. That feels like the next level of this. I think it's also interesting. I think it will take a while to to play out in a way that is for the mainstream person, but I think it's interesting. A lot of people talk about vanities in the context of VR and AR we just heard from Facebook and Microsoft getting into the the metaverse. What did you, what did you think of those announcements in and how

did Apple think about it? Why would you want to talk about those announcements but in terms of the, we've always said that they are is a core technology and it's a technology. I get super excited about and I think it's profound and I think it's profound and turns of the things that you can do with it. And the enhancement of people's lives in the Improvement of people's lives. And but Humanity has to be at the center of it. It's like any other technology it has to be about humanity and in helping humanity and in so you can bet the the way that we

looked at it is like that. But it it's it's an area of great opportunity of a life. But do you think they'll be a day where we'll all wear, you know, VR goggles and and live in a Digital Universe. All is a big word, is a very big word and I think there has to be a advancements in technology that are beyond what is possible today, but I get back to AR today is the largest AR platform on on iPhone and you can do things today that you could imagine doing. Like if you're shopping for furniture. You can look at those new sofa in your

room if you're designing a home or designing a home for someone else. It's a great use of of AR. And so they're there are things that are possible today. And I think that that that just get becomes more and more exciting as as time goes on. I know you hate to Aunt as an answer questions about cars, but I am so curious. About your cars or about the expectation of cars. Is there anything you can tell us? No, try not to talk about the future too much cuz we

got so much going on in the current day that we try to be secretive about the future. And so I don't I don't have anything to share today. It wouldn't be us if we didn't keep something up our slaves. All right. Let me try out this then I think it's been a couple years ago. Now, as you know, you on Lost cuz he's in public about. It said that he tried to get a meeting with you to sell Tesla to you. In fact, because the company was actually struggling. Now course, the company has a trillion dollars market value. You apparently didn't take the meeting in retrospect. You wish you did. You

know, I've never spoken to Elon and and there are lots of companies out there that, that we could have bought a different times. Probably. And I've been, I feel really good about where we are today and trying to get to you. I don't remember it being like that, but I, but I, but he said that he did and so I assumed that that's correct. Ask about your role as a CEO, because you've been very outspoken on a lot of issues immigration voting rights. The abortion laws in in Texas is lgbtq issues. I think a lot of leaders and the public are are trying to understand the

role of the corporation should play today. When corporations, feel they can speak out and take, take take us out if you will, and when they can't. And how you think about that, I think about not waiting into politics, but sort of sticking to a line on policy. And apple is probably one of the very few medium or large companies. That doesn't even have a pact. And so we try to steer clear of the politics on something and then focus on policy. And if it's a policy that intersects with our

values or intersects with our company and some why the likelihood that we're going to speak up as is, right. If it doesn't intersect, if it's something that we would just be another voice out there and and not have a unique perspective to bring, then we don't say anything to take. Take immigration. As an example. We have 450 dreamers an eyeful. And so we are very focused. On. I getting them a pathway to citizenship and in so we're going to speak up on that and speak up for them. And there are there

other things like that. But but we're sticking to the policy elements about not the politics of it. But what happens when, of course, the policy intersects with the pallet intersects with the, the politics of it. All right. Well, I think sometimes that you can't prevent that in today's environment, but at least our hearts and minds are around the policy. Something important to you. You have a responsibility to to say something that you have been criticized for not speaking out on, for example, in

China and other come in other countries as well. This is something. I think a lot of companies that have been doing business and trying to struggle with a number of companies. As you know, I have a band in China. How do you think about that? I think that we have a responsibility as a business to do business with him in as many places as we can because I think business is this huge Catalyst. I I I believe what Tom Watson said is world, history World Trade. I have always believed that. And so I think we should be about not but, you know, not pulling up

the drawbridge but we should be about building the bridges. And so I think that's key for business, and in terms of what we speak up on, we speak up on some privately, we speak up on some publicly. We do it in different ways and you have to get your head around when you're operating outside, the US in any country in the world that they're different laws. And, and so, that's, that's part of the both of complexity and part of the beauty of the world is, every everybody has their Their own laws and customs

are there red lines for you? And in the reason I ask is, I absolutely agree that getting a seat at the table matters and it's very hard to have a seat at the table. If you're out there screaming from the sidelines at the same time, but trying to figure out the right balance, especially if you don't feel like your voice is being her inside the room. Well, I think being on the sidelines is never a great price. I at least for a business. I don't think it is because as you say, just becoming one of the people yelling and into the air, doesn't do anything. And I

feel that way about our country as well. You know, we we interface with every Administration with both political parties. We have always done that and we will always do that because we, we think engagement is the right approach you regardless and I feel that way internationally as well. Is it engagement is the is the right approach. Literally, as we speak is cop26 and there are a number of companies that have made some pledges around trying to to get to get the carbon zero or a carbon-neutral, or you can even go

negative if you will. You've been very outspoken and really ahead on so many of these flags. And frankly, commitments early on and I'm curious when you design a new product today and I know it has to be carbon neutral. But how how much of their how much is there is a trade-off to do any of that way, you know, we don't, we don't view it as a trade-off because it's so ingrained, in the way we think of things like the, the new iPad and iPad Mini have a hundred percent recycled aluminum in there as the enclosure, the antenna of the new iPhone 13

is made from upcycled plastic bottles. It's just the way they are process now works. It's so deeply embedded in the company. It's not a bolt on. And so we don't have, you know, engineering and then another group on the side that worries about environmental engineering worries, the environmental impact of the product and it it's it's not a burden that we feel to do that. It's not a trade-off. We feel to do that. It's just it's how we approach it at this point. I have eyes, you know, away, but I'm I'm one of

those people who always buys the next phone in the next phone and every time there's an upgrade cycle. But when our conversations in cop 26th, is this idea of these you do regular upgrade Cycles in and maybe the idea that we should be holding on to these devices for much longer? You think about what we do if we know that people are like new that we have some people like you that bought want to buy on every every cycle within. We love that. What we wanted you to do is to turn in our trade, in your existing product will refurbish it and send it out and sell it to somebody else.

You'll get a nice subsidy for your new iPhone and somebody else will pick up your iPhone. And then at the end of life of the phone, which happens years years from now, we've got we've developed robots that actually disassemble the iPhone into the, into the part so that we can recycle the parts and Take the watch that we just announced the series 7, watch. 99% of the rarest materials are recycled 99%. And and so, this, these things are great. And so we're really working on a closed loop system. Last question to him. So, you know, I'm a Morning Show person, but I think you're a Ted lasso

person. So, favorite line, what would I do say, he said coach last. I said something like, there's two buttons. I never want to push. Panic and snooze, and I love that. I love that. He has so many great great lines, and it has resonated with so many people around the world and inserted come out at exactly the right time with during the pandemic and has been a moment of positivity that all of us want and all of us need frankly, Tim Cook. Hopefully at nobody panicked or snoozed during this conversation. I'm grateful for it. Thank you for helping us kick things off today. Thanks.