The Art of Listening

Welcome back to deal book. We are just kind of fun are the co-hosts of armchair expert, Dax Shepard and Monica padman to podcast. They launched in 2018, that became a sensation in its first year, on Jax group, became those download a new podcast and iTunes. When the duo move their series entire archive over to Spotify the company. They're so now is one of the most listened to in the world. The dedicated fanbase calls themselves on cherries and their guests run. The gamut Prince Harry. The Duke of Sussex. When is Paltrow Carmelo Anthony, Michael Palin. Bill

Gates? Barack Obama and some of the others and I listened to it, religiously. I'm thrilled to welcome them both to deal with. I to tell you guys, I put my sneakers on. I've been wearing Fancy Shoes, all day with the Secretary of State here, but I figured for you guys, we should just have some fun. So forgive my wardrobe and we just have to acknowledge that. We're so giddy to join you and feels like when the Clampetts would get invited over to their neighbors, The

Beverly Hillbillies. So thanks for having us were incredibly flattered to be joining this group of people. I'm excited to have you guys because I wanted to talk to you about. You guys are tapped into something in a remarkable way since your religious late, there's obviously the whole story to shift of just podcasting more generally, but specifically what you guys have done. I think over the past couple years has just been Remarkable to see and how it's sort of changing culture and changing. By the way. We've been doing interviews here, the art of the interview. And, and in many ways,

that's what I wanted to start talking to you. About our good friend, Adam Grant's had this to say about you guys and I think it it's, it's really true. You said they said rather he said rather you have inverse Charisma you make while I was interviewing them, but yes, we're aware of it cuz I think he dropped it on the wonders of you. You make every guest you bring on more interesting and likeable and I wanted to just understand where you think this whole thing comes from and how you

got. And we think that we've, we've got some pretty interesting Gaston in past couple days when you get some really interesting, yes, but you get them to say things, they would never say anywhere else happens. But we're so unlikable that whoever comes in automatically, but it seems. So like for real, what I would say to that is first and foremost. I think we have something for whatever reason, you can't really cast. We started arguing in my kitchen, seven years ago about

a podcast serial, and we just have this insatiable desire to one-up one another and invest each other in a debate. So that's like the more of it. But I think Just me being an AA for 17 years and being just very used to sharing my story and often my failures. Most often my failures as a route of connecting with one another. I think, because we applied that same kind of formula to the show, which at times is nauseating, cuz that is a house. I'm talking way more than once, but it is an

effort to First own my own failures and regrets and in hopes that the people will meet me there and I just from being in that program for so long. I personally learn so much more from people blowing it and people standing on a stage with a trophy. I don't have much to learn from that but I certainly have a lot to learn from people who have to redefine your identity when they get a career bomb. When they've got to Pivot and in in the mix or something else, you know, all these things, I can learn a lot going on here. Podcasting. Not just

the medium itself, but it's actually change the message. I do, I think, you know, and I think all of us are pretty aware of what the hundred and forty character communication did to us. And I think that we would all acknowledge things have gotten really buying Aerie, black, or they're white, and I think we're all crazy nuance. And I think the long form of a podcast is the exact place to have a ball that. Do you want some? I think all of us for this, like a headline or a 140-character opinion,

New Groove No, I was going to add that. I think that's across the board. Now. It's all types of media streaming and Mass Appeal is going away, which is great. I think people can still connect it but I will also add when we started this, we didn't know much about anything and we definitely didn't do it because Todd cast popular and we didn't do it because we knew there was any Financial anything, like we just did it. Because why not? And now because because These are proven to work out in this arena for a lot of people. I do think I'm a little

interested to see where podcasting those or other people cuz they are, what do you think? And by the way, now do you have to do with Spotify? Has it changed anything about how you do with? You looks like you up the frequency. Like you have to do with more dates. Is that changed the dynamic? No, in fact, we promised them less than what we had delivered here. So, we promised them to a week and said, you know, will often do a third when it's when we are interested in something, we have to ask you because I'm sure Dad

would just be gravy from their perspective, in the deal in it and hasn't anything what exchange does because they do Dynamic ads and we did not do dynamic as we could bake in. Have we actually work Less on the part? We didn't love. Doing and we focus way more. Now on just the creative aspect of it so far. It's been nothing but a joke. Member One Bank. All of it is fractured and the business and not to stand with a fractured that the media is now fractured. And but in podcast to are much more narrow for specific groups week, you have a massive Keel podcast and

I'm curious. How do you think I happened? And whether you think it's possible today, is it a function of the fact that it started when it started? Best part of it. And I don't know, I think they think being early on the 1st, but early, what is definitely a benefit to us both? Probably imagined if we launched today, it would be much much harder. I'm not just anyone, we launch there was still 800,000 the podcast. Now there's three million million, but all of our peers are now

also doing. So everyone's got some cachet in the space and some built-in audience, but I but I do think And I'm not I have does not an accusation against anyone. But I can feel the difference between people who are pursuing this as a business and people who just couldn't help but find a way to do this. We just happen to be in that latter group. I think it again with zero fantasies of monetizing the irony that it was the most successful things where either of us that we've ever been apart of us

about it in the green green dollar more than anybody out there and you're out most of your questions. Seem to come literally from the answer and I went to go. See how much preparation goes into this. What are you doing? How do you do it? Well, I do research prior. I always do it day of because inevitably, when I'm reading about somebody, a few things, stand out your kaloba. How do I say it? Call of all my troops a little bit. I was born with it. It's called a cold on. My eyes are fine. By the way. Just finished. Make care

immediately had to find out what was going on. I want to know like how did that impact your childhood? Have you use stories about what you can get this cuz that and inform me that you're just your novel. I'm so attracted, anything novel or unique and a guy I could stare at you at dinner. If you could be a terrible conversations, I could get through it because of that thing, but thank you. Thank you. Actually is relevant that I think is a beautiful way of looking at life. I don't know that. I

agree. But he believes that you can fall in love with your on an island with any human on earth. You can choose to fall in love with them. And I think that approach is brought into this addict, like, fall in love with the people here. Even people, we think, or I think Monica, is much better than me and everything. She's going to kind of liking them. The research thing. I just want to say, I have to do a day off cuz I'm in general. I find at least a couple nuggets in my research that I'm really intrigued by and, and that has a half-life. So, if I do

research today before, by the next morning, it's minutes pipe. What are some percentage? So I want to do my research and walk directly into talk to you cuz I'm most curious about you. And but I also was we were given great advice by Chris Hardwick at the beginning. You said, you know, please feel free to get away from your research, has your research and evidently starts charging out the whole conversation. And then when people are playing their part going, where you hope they would go, you're not learning anything as you're just checking it off your list and invite. And I, we

took that to heart and in we always have the research is always there, but it is a safety net, some of our best interviews like Hillary Clinton. The Highlight for us is like, learning it that bill collect DVDs, like every old man does, like that's not in my notes to find. That makes her. So humans us that her stupid to the way you do it is, is that not the cabin? I'll tell you what. When I do an interview with you guys, I think to myself up nice, like a plane ride. I know I

got to start at JFK. I know. I got to land at LAX. I probably going to stop at O'Hare and I maybe Dallas and Denver. The weather may change up there along the way, so I may have to, I might have to move around and change change the order. And hopefully, by the way, we might have pushed down to Atlanta by accident. I didn't even know it. But, but that I did that, there's like an agenda that sounds terrible, but it's okay. I'll just lose has been. Active is generally, he'll eat them Mondays and Thursdays as experts their professors, their

lawyers. The doctors are saying, it's a different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But a Monday, I guess the overall questions always. Okay, you're rich and famous. Did it solve all of your internal issues? And it's been my experience that it didn't, it's all mine. And then you're kind of back to the drawing board. So I'm very curious for people how they be navigated realizing a fantasy, and what the reality of the fantasy is in there. And how did they have to adjust based on the fact that none of us living in actual famous? What do you do when it's not working?

Tom. I used to I tell you I start telling it's unenforceable and a handful of times where it is, what it is. It's time for me to dust off some old embarrassing stories about myself. Going off. The person is to focus on that on hitting their marks are like, oh, I got to say this but they're in their hat. And so I think the smartest thing to do in that case. It's like totally take a left turn and hat and that's yet talked about like, biting causing this and then that opens up it just

like, we'll leave the expectation of anything normal. I stand up, like, let them get their talking points out. So, they feel like they did their job. And then I almost want this conversation to take such a detour that they think it's not going to are like chatting. What do you do with the talking points? But you added the talking plant part out? We have to go on the show. Like, hey, we let me know. Whatever they want because we're not trying to break story. Still like if someone's regrets

being too vulnerable to open that night. We cut it out. That's quite often with usually our favorite bar. But we do that, we really do. Try to give people a moment to come. Get what they want to hang out of the Xperia. What do you make a VIP? Do you consider it news or do you consider it entertainment? Definitely not new. I don't think it's a boy. It is entertainment. I mean, yes, objectively. It's entertainment. Of course. I feel like it has something more. I

think, boys, I grew up as a boy. I think I inherited a lot of insane stuff socially that I've been trying to shake my whole life. And I, I, I do hope that younger men listen to it. And I somehow, and somebody is an example of being wild and vulnerable to all these things. Like, for me, if there is a mission to it, but I'm not that lock. Yes, entertained. How often do you are there? Other guests that you want to go? But soon, as you get gas, that are in the middle of it when I call a news cycle. And so the reason I asked that is other people that something happens. You say, man. I want to talk

to him or man. I want to talk to her right now or I mean, I don't know what you want to go. Would you want to talk to you like, you know, Aaron Rodgers right now? I would love to, you know, who I wanted to talk to you, more than anybody at the time of the crisis was was Roseanne Barr because I, I am I defensive. That is because that's what everyone's going to ask them. But you should come here to hear something that you're not going to hear on the normal news cycle. Like that's actually we haven't popped

out by not asking that question, is that you were going to hear the end of them. Aside from the warrant kind of racial aspect was Here is a woman who self-destructive publicly twice and I he dying to know what's broken inside that she would Manifest this out. Come over and over again. And I I actually have a genuine perhaps to cashion. Despite how a horn her baby wasn't just someone that would not believe they were worthy of something over and over and over again, you know, I'm interested in that.

I want to find out what's really happening. We have a question from the audience that's about listening. And the question is in all of the lessons. You learned about listening on this show. Have you been able to apply to these learning to your personal life? Do you think? Yeah, I mean, I think I can get away from just the mechanics of practice that we do several times a week and I do think things have happened that are unintended positive outcomes. Are you if your brain is sharper sharper, now doing the podcast, they were previously, you know, we'll have Eric Lander

on but you know who runs the brode Institute relearn closest to me on Wednesday for talking on Thursday like so that's out their sharpness. And I also think that we can have a conversation at the drop of a hat with just about anybody in it and just knowing everyone has something. Or even the people who are are slow to open up or were like nervous before we start any people. In fact, for you before you guys came on. I did an interview with Darren Woods, Lucile's, Exxon Mobil and I forgot we got thousands of thousands

of letters from people saying you got to cancel that interview, you know, this guy is going to activate climate activist who said you can't even engage with him and some other people that you said yourself. I don't want to talk to Tell mama, can I give her on this? Which is great. I think it's why this shows works. I'm so we have different takes on the absolutely reject the notion of platforming. I I think that anytime you ruled out this course. I just, I think there's a fundamental believe I have that, that violates. I, I don't believe. Never talking to your enemy. Never talked to

your opponent, is a good idea. I want to interview Putin more than any person on the planet. I want to talk to Vladimir Putin. I would interview Trump. I'm a liberal. I would love to interview. I would love, I would love to anybody, I find interest. I don't think there should be rules on who you're allowed to talk to. I think people's bad ideas are best because that's when you find out how bad their ideas are there more powerful when you're silence. But what about people who are in

trouble? And, you know, I have, I met you, by the way, like Aaron Rodgers, would you want to talk to an Aaron Rodgers? Going to bring me up to speed as he, he, he was, he's a football player who said that he was immunized. You really wasn't, he's now not playing this weekend and it created a bit of a stir around the country. Yes. I would love to talk to him about that because we've, we've drilled them this issue non-stop, since I started Monica, made a much different positions on it. Being much different childhood. I am always

suspicious of authority. I'm cynical. I don't believe I think everyone's got an intention. I did all the right things throughout all of my. Quarantine. I wore masks, I got vaccinated, but my instinct was opposite, so I would love to know why Aaron Rodgers Truly has his position more than what he might claim as his position, right? As you started this, by saying people come off very sympathetic, they do because we're having very human conversations and everyone can come

up to the fear that we could talk to someone who is doing something, truly bad, and we're making them sound good. I don't know. I don't know what that does. People have falsely. I have a paradigm where to be compassionate with Ben mean, you're not going to be punitive in anyway, and I don't agree with that. I think you can be very, very compassionate of criminals and also send them to jail when they do something wrong. I don't think it's and either or maybe a toughie because you guys work for the same company. Okay,

so go, I'll let Monica star. I have a ton of respect for him. I have a lot of admiration for what he has done in this face. I think he's incredibly intelligent and I don't agree with a lot of the things he says, but I think as a person I totally dig him and I don't agree with him sometime here. Do you think this could ever be a TV show of you guys ever talk about that? Yeah, people have expressed a desire to press. Put this on some kind of a platform but my hunch is and again, I might change your mind but something happens without cameras pointed at you. When all you have his headphones on,

you enter a Zone. The second you think about being, you'd think that the level of honor building that we seem to be getting pretty consistently, would go away under Bright Lights, people doing your makeup cameras pointed at you. It's also like the listener being distracted by my new tattoo and your kaloba and everybody should see it. There you go. It was okay. It was okay, but it's a crow with a charm. Cherry a cherry in its mouth. Wow. We have another question from the audience in this one.

From somebody who clearly listens to the program. Oh my God. What it's done. No, I got to get closer. The camera is far away from me, so I can get the screen. Is, it's, it's not that you have a screen that's close to. I'm not that close. I'm trying to come up with something here. Question from the audience. How has your relapse shaped your current, priorities with your personal and public life? And can you talk about the day, 7 episode? yeah, I mean, this is a big one and it's an interesting experience because There's no way I couldn't have

admitted to that. I unto known on the show for being having been sober for 60 years old out of people looked up to me and I can pass. A lot of people message me. If it was really, really important to me and I'm not going to be responsible for us. So when we discuss that, that's its own thing. We have control over that situation and then we'll record it. We have control over that thing. And then we even get to pick like, what days is coming out? What are we going to Taylors all these moments of control, but then, when it was out, it certainly became a different experience for me, which is

like, oh, wow. Now it's now it's completely out of my control. Like I said, that's all left. That the horse has left the barn but ultimately it's been. Really just positive there hasn't been no one's really tried to. I mean, some people who hate me some some anti-vaxxers, you know, they went to town on me, but in general I think it was more helpful than it was a disappointing. Start run over people who know how hard it is. Everything reminded everyone to

me has shifted over time or at least it seems like that. I don't, I don't know. I will say when it when this first started I thought and I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I thought there was like a Howard. Robin situation going on, but I think it's actually changed. Especially like in the last year-and-a-half you feel that? Big time. I mean by the way, that Howard Robinson, wish it was like, yeah, let's have Outlets have an extra voice there. And then I guess I've just gotten Robert

Robert, Robert Robin 2.0 and Matt Monica doesn't generally s when I'm staying back to her. She seems to be out in me when I'm wrong, you know, her, it's her job to keep me. She's the opposite of a US person but what else AAA is? People often write me, like letting her anema. If you think I'm making the decisions from Monica, you don't know. Monica that she's in the chair. She wants to be and likewise. I always wanted Monica. He's one of my favorite ones of me to hear from then. I just think

Monica, who's been in the public eye now for three years and not 20 years of building confidence. People were coming in, know her as guests arrive. Now that might have listened to the show that they love Monica's. They want to interact with their like just many things that coalesced to make it more even-handed. And I imagine it'll continue to get more and more 50/50 has to go on a of a convention here, favorite guest. Rick Rihanna couple that we have to do. Sorry, my mom, Dog. The Bounty Hunter for me.

We always will come back to Bill Gate. That's the one where we just couldn't believe you're talking to him. And he was so adorable. And what is there? Is there a guess that didn't work for you? I thought we are we've only had maybe three guests who ultimately were like I just would wish she don't even release it and we said fine just cuz they may be felt like it was to exposing what is comical. I'll say is that on the far, or on the 5th the graph of how exposing they were. All three of these people were like a to So

it's just sitting there. No relationship that I actually how much. I like the daily. Good answer. You are. That's good. I lead the daily as well. I really like revisionist history. A lot Malcolm's. I love Radiolab. We Love This American Life. Oh, I love. I'm more. Perfect... Federal. Winds of Change, that's a good one. Thank you. Thank you. Both this going to ball. I hope we get to do this again. Hopefully, in person next time. Maybe in our ears will see. Thanks everybody,

preciate it see you soon. We're back in the moment.