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The Multicoin Summit 2021
December 1, 2021, Online
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Creator Monetization
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About the talk

In this conversation, our partner Matt Shapiro interviews Roniel Rumburg, the co-founder and CEO of Audius. With a background in computer science and venture capital and a genuine passion for music, he is at the forefront of the creator economy movement. With Audius, he is pioneering a new set of tools that will unlock a new generation of creators to connect more intimately and directly with fans. This conversation covers a wide range of topics ranging from the current media distribution, to social tokens and NFTs, to creator monetization models.

About speakers

Matthew Shapiro
Partner at Multicoin Capital
Roneil Rumburg
Co-founder & CEO at Audius

I'm currently a Partner at Multicoin Capital where I work closely with limited partners, generate investment ideas, and manage daily responsibilities of due diligence, strategy and negotiations as a senior member of the investment team. Previously, I was a Vice President in the investment banking group at Teneo, specializing in raising institutional capital around specific investment theses, management teams and assets across a range of industries. While at Teneo, I focused on constructing transactions that aligned the interests of disparate parties while maximizing returns for all stakeholders. My experience around incentive structures attracted me to the underlying mechanics of cryptoassets and how they enable various parties to trustlessly engage in diverse and complex transactions. I am based in New York City and hold a degree in Finance and International Business from the University of Maryland.

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Everyone, good morning. Great to see you all on Matt Shapiro. I'm a partner at multicoin, Capital thrilled to be joining here by roneil rumberg who is the co-founder and CEO of adios. Adios is one of the most used applications in crypto today about. You should all sign up for it, if you haven't already and he's really at the Forefront, I think of bringing crypto to the main screen. So thanks for joining us. Bruneel. You have an interesting background on an operator. Would love to hear more about your background time. I got my start as a software engineer. That's

kind of what I studied in school how I worked my way through school and supported myself and made beer money in and what not through school, but I am through research work in distributed systems within your my coursework and what not naturally. Long to Bitcoin in 2012 or so. And that was when I started to get really excited about the possibilities for these decentralized Network ecosystems worked in and around that area. I work on some failed projects through college and

then after college, and then over to Kleiner Perkins adventure for me and a few others started is there, and I was covering crypto within that. So it's been a lot of time looking at different things in the space, did the seed for lightning Labs, the lightning on bitcoin company and a couple of others and then I kind of miss building stuff. So I left and that led to body has several Investments including audience with Rob. It's very excited about this. Kyle had mentioned in his, in his presentation. Career economy is a pretty broad term. To you and like, why are you excited

about it? Yes. Oh wait, I think the set the stage a little bit too. It's, it's worth thinking about it and talking about like, how media distribution and distribution for Creative Works work today. If you do buy it by category, but Tech enable distribution of media at least, tens to follow a model of no platform company, that's independent of the creators themselves. And then the creators are basically uploading the media. They produce weathers music video, Etc, on to things like YouTube, SoundCloud places like that. If there are

more at the kind of amateur end of the spectrum, and then for the very professional, folks are going to Netflix and Hulu and Spotify, Apple music and in places like this, right? So the relationship there is, the creator is kind of depending upon it and working with these Centralized companies that control access to communities with the Creator economy Trend. More broadly is, is speaking to, is this idea that our creator and creative types, more generally are increasingly finding ways to vertically integrate, their

distribution, do everything, from some stack, being able to give writers the opportunity to speak directly to their audiences. On two of my body is giving musicians, the opportunity to speak directly to their fans and so on and so forth, right? So this idea that the Creator should own relationship with her fans and be able to use that for what they see fit and Port that between different product experience this potentially, right? Like if a if a writer wants to leave some stack they can take their email list and bring us somewhere else. Where as if a

YouTube Creator wants to leave YouTube your kind of Hose right? Like if your fans are there. Drivers, were there. You have no choice but to stay. The vertical integration is actually really interesting. What are some of the enabling factors that you think are feeding into the Creator economy? Right timing is 60 top with technological trends. Like what is happening? Like what are the unique enabling features today that you didn't see five years ago or even Tori? And two years ago. I actually think the biggest the cost of producing content. In many of these areas

at a level of professionalism and quality of what like, you know, a big budget thing could be. That cost has declined precipitously over the last 10 to 15 years, especially in in music. We've seen this where the someone in their bedroom producing content. I can get it mastered and produced, at a level of quality. That's pretty close to indistinguishable from from from content made by professional, sound engineers and and producers in the studio. And that kind of democratization of the

means of creation has naturally led to a massive increase in the number of people that are participating in in making creative stuff, right? If it doesn't cost, $100,000 to make a track on an album of their lot more people that can try and do that. But similarly, I think as that cost of production has gone down. So too has opened an opportunity for A middle-class of creative Outlet to exist, right? If you can make it on 1015, $20,000 a month from your fan base. That's actually enough to have a really good living as a Creator today. But when it cost, you

$100,000 to make every track and it cost a lot of money to stay physically produced records and and put them in the stores or I can go print books and get them distributed to book shelves that you know, that naturally meant that, that became a game of scale. Right? There was only a fixed number of a kind of, you know, individuals are bands or authors or or whatever. It may be. That could really reach breakout trajectory. If that does a production, declining has had a really interesting effects across the ecosystem of crypto playing to this. Like how does crypto

change or a name? The relationship between Fannin, Creator ear. Is that? What crypto enable for the first time and opportunity for creators to be in French? I stay in and have ownership of their means of distribution, right? So, they're kind of like, I see this as being a few phases. So, like, reading on the internet was like, you know, give give the rights to everything. You make, you know, whether you're writing things, producing video, Whatever to these platforms are beholding to, and, you know,

hope that you can build up enough fans and and you know, whatever scraps are are left for you. After both take their Cuts along the way if you know her or enough to to live on. That was kind of like Phase 1, Phase 2. That's started to get to play out. I think over the last seven eight years or so. Is this the kind of Creator economy a friend that we were describing where folks now I have better tools that they Can use to reach pants, but they don't have any ownership of or control of those tools in those tools are not composable. Right? So so still step in the right direction,

but there's some some issues there with respect to like for example, with the writer leaves cuz I said you're saying okay. I have to take my mailing list and bring it somewhere in that all that up and do everything with it is. It's not possible to you know, like compose different tools on top of each other. They're baked in composability within the audience Community. People build really cool things without ever talking to our team or to anyone else in the community and fantastic right

there. Even artists and artist teams that are building their own in a customer experiences around, Distributing content that, that run on the Audience Network. And That's great. Right, but similarly, all of the data that users build up within these networks is now portable or accessible across other experiences, right? So if I'm a developer and I want to build like a cool new way to like, listen to music. I can now access the same catalog and engage with it in the same way that like the client, that our team

puts out the reference implementation of a body as he's able to do. You have really composability and that. I know, enfranchisement in the ownership right, where artists and creators of all kinds for the first time, get a say in an in the opportunity to control the direction that these tool for distribution take. There's lots of different types of A sculptor A Painter today at 6 doctor write. I mean, there's there's all these different types of craters. You chosen specifically, focus on the

music industry. What is it about that industry that you think makes it sort of ripe for disruption for this model. I never formally defined, what audience is and what we do. So I'll start there a Digital streaming service that connects fans directly with artists and exclusive new music that has direct engagement. And direct interaction is is really where we see the key differentiator being here. And like you said, I think that kind of a shift towards direct engagement and and giving creative the ownership of that ability to directly engage

in control of the relationship really is, is what kind of been been the enabling Factor here, but we're really excited about music. My my co-founder and I just because we're big fans. Yeah, it was a drummer in a past life long ago, but my parents rightfully, I think pointed out somewhere along the way that I didn't have the god-given talent to like, make it go at, that is something that could be a career, but fortunately, I also really like playing with computers and doing stuff around that. So, I ended up finding my way there. This really

was, I think a eight opportunity of my co-founder and I being at a place as music fans, where we saw a lot of our favor creators, feeling disenfranchised in their existing means of distribution and then specifically layers. There's kind of a, like a turning point in 2015 or so where so many of our friends who were music producers and especially in the dance, music Community were, you know, actively deciding to leave. Existing platforms because they felt that they were being mistreated on them.

Right? And, and that was where this initial Genesis for the idea of obvious came from was in in 2015 or so, basically, seeing seeing this trend play out and seeing SoundCloud, and, in particular, kind of lose that the network of fact that they once had within the community, due to a series of decisions that they made without consulting or or engaging with the community and co-creator choosing to leave and end the camp as a result of that. Let us the idea of what if artist could actually own and operate their tooling for distribution,

like, what if you could create this kind of streaming Co-op of sorts, right? And we quickly realized that time to text didn't exist to, to do what we had in bacon. And, and wanted to know, if she'll be idea and a few years. Co-founder Forest. I started a company that I ended up selling to a company called Avi networks that was absorbed by VMware after that. So, so things in that night in late 2017. I left Kleiner to get back to building stuff for a similarly was I think feeling

a little bit interested in his work at the time and and decided to leave to, you know, think about new projects. So we came together and we're like, oh, I wonder if that actually work today. And, and the two things that changed in that time were, but they're young. Now existed in 2017 at 11. Will, that was usable right? In 2015, homesteaded come out in in South, but I don't know if you ever tried to to use it at that time, that it was not is not particularly pretty excited to say the least and I was the

Enabling Factor. So, those two bass Technologies gave us the confidence, at least, to say, hey and actually, is possible to to do this, right? It just would have been too hard without without those. So I guess play. 22, really pointedly? Answer your question. It wasn't like we had this kind of premonition of everything that the audience would become more or would be a was really just that by co-founder. And I were were in a in the right place to recognize a a problem. I think before you know that the broader World maybe could see it and you don't want to do something about it. So I

think we're all really glad that your parents pushed you away, but I'm sure but I think you're doing really well. So, I'm glad that ended up as a result. The distribution concept is really interesting from an artist's perspective. How is it, different ready? For today artist, you know, they have this whole process to get all these record label is, you've got Spotify and apple, right? Like how is using body is different? Like, what is that? It's like yeah, so so I think it's important to you. No signal as well. Like it. I actually, we don't see obvious like,

displacing the players that exist today. I think it's kind of reorienting, the the modes of Engagement and in this is already been happening across the music industry, but I think the audience is starting to perpetuate that a bit. So I guess it today and if you do break down your question of it, there are certainly different types and classes of of artists and and depending on what kind of the both the tier that they operate in, in the type of music. They produce their different, kind of structures that they engage with, but will start with ten of the bedroom producer, right? Like this is,

you know, what, I would be right now, if I had probably continued and in trying to make music without without really having any talent for, it would be sitting in your room. Music. What what that person is looking for, is a chance to break out to get this cupboard to find fans and into engage with them with with that kind of Engagement mode. Entirely self-serving user can sign up upload stuff that they want to like, literally dragging and dropping files

in go. It goes, they have links, they can share with their Community. Now, they also have some opportunities to get to see rated into playlist that our community members, Ron in, and things like that. So you're the job that audiences is solving for them, is this opportunity for discovered, right to find fans and hopefully to build up a fan base, the next kind of, hero of producers creators or folks that y'all are still Independent. Maybe have a small team around that Maybe not,

maybe it's just some cells, but they're actually supporting and in living off of the music that they make. And for those folks, similar kind of the usage model of similar. It just might not be the artists themselves actually going and uploading these things, right? It would be maybe their manager, maybe someone on on their extended team and end this would fit into a kind of their broader digital strategy as an opportunity to build a web three native audience that they can start to use in in other ways to write. So we've seen folks, for example, you know,

used engagement on audience and a fan base to build up to go later. Execute successful and a few sales in and things like that because they now have a base of fans than actually understand how to engage with these things. Right. And they're, they're six and a half million. 4 or so here that they can reach that all have Wallace, whether they know it or not. And that's, that's something to talk about later. I think that the user experience around these things, but all these users are able to engage in a crypto native fashionwear. Otherwise that the burden. On board would be very, very

difficult right now. I like that. The Top Gear artist you can think of, right? This is where some of the other players that you mentioned started to come into place. So you could be signed to a label and then house publishing and other distribution deals in place. I think actually fits pretty nicely in concert with those other mechanisms and then tool. So the major music labels like he mentioned in his talk is actually been really great to work with from our perspective so far, right? And

I think they What's been really interesting to see kind of happened in? In the label side of the equation, is how it if you think about how many times the primary mode of music distribution has changed in the last forty or fifty years like every 10 years, right? We went from LPS to cassettes to CDs to online distribution through like iTunes paper song than screaming yelling and on that kind of cycle. We're, we're due for for another, you know, another potential

Jacob here in, in the next little bit. But, you know, the one thing that has a very consistent through all of that, it's at the labels have continually reinvented, how they work, and how they provide value to their artists, to to engage there and we seen that similarly, in in our work right now, actually, think the, the cool thing about audio Firm in sizes that this is an opportunity to build a direct relationship with fans and have control of that relationship. Those value of crops, apply equally to the very large

artists and labels and, and label teams are as they do to, you know, the bedroom producers said her up and coming, right. So the engagement model, they're actually really doesn't change much from Hell artist engaged today with their distribution channels. Audience is another place. They can distribute music that has some unique qualities. And that's what actually leaves too many artists choosing to upload content exclusively here in a lot of cases because there's the modes of Engagement with an audience in the

social features around. Audius lend themselves to different types of content, right? We've even seen many artists who were producing sort of separate content for their Talk Pages, for example, back on 10 also tends to do quite well on audio straight and the end up quite different from the content that, you know, they're making two to go on to their Big Marketing push, professional release, 44 scholar, fireplaces like that. It was super high level analogy in a throttle. I close out. This answer is to see if you think about the way video distribution is broken

down today YouTube and Netflix exist at opposite ends of the spectrum of a kind of amateur to professional and that they host in the types of content that subscribers expect to be able to engage with in music. We have Spotify Apple music, Amazon music. Stop in a broad like there's so many options of that kind of professional end of the spectrum and in SoundCloud was at one time, you know, the predominant option for Got more amateur end of the spectrum. That doesn't that doesn't

two days time. Serve the purpose that it, once it has been playing and where the artists that are using the tools that audience provides in in that manner or getting the most value engagement back in return. That's so interesting because if you said you said, the music industry has been just subject is so much technological change over the last two decades, really interesting Lee. They've also been of all of the groups of all the industries in the world that have been subject to change that they've

probably been on with the right most eloquent way to bring. This is I guess just understand about new technology in control and access How do they think about audius? Yeah, so, you know it with respect to the kind of you know, the history of antagonism there. Like I wasn't I wasn't around at that time, so I didn't see it firsthand, but I only have read enough books and and try to understand that time. At least today. And in our engagement, we've seen absolutely the opposite. Honestly, I think

they are trying to do what's best for their artists and for us as things are right. Now, it's obvious that the broader trends of decentralization have a lot of opportunity to create value for for artists and that's why they're excited to engage in and hang out. I think the the deer point though, like it's it's been a really fascinating kind of evolution to see play out where the business model of the label has been remade like a number of times in the last 45. They've always found a

way to get to bounce back and then to come back and I think that's in in the web for ecosystem as well. The very largest artist still have kind of a, a, they still have like a, a, a good reason, and a place for for the label to exist. But I think even calling them labels today. I think it's not necessarily reflective of a vehicle work that they're doing on behalf of artists. And in the way engage it, it almost looks more and more, like camping agency model

is, as things are right now, where I think, if you're like a break or or a very large artist, there's a level of professionalism, in your marketing efforts, your distribution efforts on all of all of these things. That Having like fifty hundred people dedicated to, you know, doing that on your behalf like Chris, a lot of value. I do think with the means of of It kind of creation of a Content being being more, broadly accessible. And as I said earlier, if impossible for someone to have a functional

business model with a much smaller number of fans, it's not it it doesn't make sense for an artist of that size to be engaging with a label. Right? So I actually think that's that's really where Webb trees opportunities. Lie ahead is in that kind of creating this middle-class of artisan in creators right where you can earn a living from from your music and do so. With this being a bully and have an opportunity to potentially to to break out and get recognized and get noticed in in in a bigger contacts. Like that's I think we're

The Sweet Spot for these tools will be and and overtime the opportunities, to kind of like grow upwards. If if you will towards that upper upper tier of artists. I mean, if it's been amazing to see the attraction and the acceptance of all this, and this and this model, I mean nothing comes clear more, then a big funding round and it's like a, who's who of Top Gear artist. I mean, Katy Perry and Nas and Jason Derulo The Chainsmokers. I mean, I can literally spend the next thirty minutes reading, like,

names off the list. It's like, unbelievable. This is just so new and interesting like, what why are those guys so excited about about audience and what you guys can do men really amazing? 44 audience has been like because we've been around for quite a while. We had touchpoints with virtually. Every every artist you could probably Think of it one time or another as the broader web3 Trend, like gain Traction in, in the last year. So, we were often the first call that people made, right? Because they're like, we need to figure

this out, like help us figure it out and we were more than happy to to get to engage in that way. I think about a year ago, it just began with you do. If people don't know what to do here and and they're looking for for both to help guide them. Leave them. I think obvious naturally lends itself well to that kind of position in the market, because the barrier to, you know, being able to use the audience is so low, right? As a user. You don't need to know anything about crypto. You can like, you can sign up. Like I, you would on any other normal web

product web to product that is but still get the value props and benefits that decentralisation provides to you through that. Direct engagement that we described butt. Ferrier 22 entry being so low. I think has has really allowed us to assume this position of like the gateway to to broader web3 for focusing music, right? So it's just so simple to get started here. Upload a few track start to engage with your fan, you know, this isn't Gary is not like different from the modes of Engagement that

people used to and that that works really well. As things have a bald fellow over the last year or so. We've been kind of Blown Away to see the level of creativity that that folks have both have been able to kind of be expressed through that direct engagement model old. Folks like Mike Shinoda, for example, who was the lead folks in Lincoln Park. Financing, he does side beat making twitch streams where he'll go on twitch livestream, like his side Dawn,

create a, create a beat with his fans watching, providing feedback along the way. He uses audius to upload the artifacts from that, like the beat at the end of the twitch stream, as well. As all of the stems and in constituent pieces of the track to say, hey, like anyone wants to remix this go for it. It is a remix to this track on, listen to it. That's really cool. Right? It is not possible to to engage with, with fans in that manner or anywhere else. That was kind of a, you know, that that like

remix competition use case was was something that like emerge from within our community. There was an artist a couple of years ago that basically, you know, did this by uploading like Different tracks. The audience and marking them is downloadable. Then he tweeted out to his community like a Girl remix. It's cracked Agate with hashtag. You know, Lido remix, Salida Woods was the artist. And you know, all I do like an Instagram live and listen to Simon and react and when our community saw that they were like, why is this not a

feature? Right? And I responded. Similarly, within our team, we are like, yeah, there should be a future in the coolest thing about being Community Latin in this way. Is that like, you know, the best ideas don't have to be. Alright Diaz, write the best ideas can emerging and break through the noise from our community. And in not always just like that right now that that folks can create Great Value. Find Value here and build a fan base. Yeah, that. I mean, just the way that people can engage in a more open

platform is pretty amazing. And the way that crypto can just track and reconcile. Everything is amazing. I really think engagement. Is it going to change materially, especially in music but like, let's talk about my water broke and I mean, the music industry generates on an annual basis in revenue and only 12% actually goes to the artist like that, that is shocking, especially given just to share cultural significance of of music. I mean, it is ubiquitous in our

daily lives. I like found that hard to believe. How do you fix that? How do you on break that? That break that cycle? Those statistics are are absolutely right. They come from a report that Citigroup put out a few years ago. Kind of studying the the broader economic some of the music industry in. 2 things about that. Very shocking methods total revenue in, in music was only forty-three million dollars a year, which as he sat, in, in proportion to their cultural significance. That music to operate kind of assumed within all of our heads face and and the amount of time that many of

us, spend listening to music on a recurring basis, pretty wild. But it's it's so small compared to many, many other Industries, but not the kind of problem. Number one, problem. Number two here. Is that the distribution of Value Inn in the space today is If somewhat uneven and unequal, I think we would argue in that 12% of total music industry revenue is is going to the actual artist who at the end of the value chain, are creating the value here, right up and draw our

players in the NBA in the NFL. Sample will learn about 50% of the revenue that the broader League generates, right? Similarly, talent-driven Industries, but the crazy thing there too is, you know, this is across like a large team of players right versus a single artist or a small number of, of are the economics here are pretty shocking, right? When you, when you look at it. I think you know, it says we picked it apart and and kind of understood what was driving this. It was, it's like layers and layers of layers of

intermediaries. That's it in between the artist and the Creator. Like I kind of like to talk to the folks through like the the Journey of a stream, right? When you listen to your favorite artist on, A network like Spotify. And then let's just, you know, what is Soom for the sake of the example that this is an independent Artist Artist is giving their content to wait for M. Like distrokid or tunecore others who is done placing it into Spotify. Let's say, I listen to that artist content today on December

2nd rate, end of 2021 at the end of the quarter so early, January sometime, if I would do their reconciliation to look at like, okay. So here's how many streams happened during the last time. Do some accounting, figure out how to distribute payments. Those payments, you know, depending on where you were based as an artist, which so-called collection societies, and right societies your paw. And otherwise get basically paid out to either your distributor and some you know, some portions other portions to the so-called rights societies

complexity there between the different sides of a music copyright. And then that ultimately makes it back to you. Once those various groups have done some Accounting in and things. So long story short at the end of that value chain, as as the independent Creator, you know, you're, you're getting a check in the mail or maybe like 10 checks in the mail from the 10 different groups that that collect on your behalf and do various things. You don't really have a sense of how that money was generated, where it came from, where people were listening. The fact that

like I was The Listener to generate that and all of that. I'm assuming that this has been American, right? So if I were in the UK or you know, God forbid somewhere in in Asia where you know things are, you know, even even more slow to like make their way back. I just heard stories of artist getting paid 10 years plus later for plays on radio. That happened in in international territories that, you know, didn't have robust reporting in place. Right? And without

knowing, where was that song, played? Who played it at what time like, there's not a is is it's, it's crazy. So, I also want to be clear. I don't think audiosoulz all of those problems, but we are trying to do is give artist for the first time the opportunity to build a channel that's direct with their fans are rather than relying on these various networks of intermediaries that stick between the actual fan, sitting at the, at the other side of the radio in their car, listening to something. And the payment that, you know, this way through this Byzantine structure But

that miserable like that sounds absolutely miserable. I can't believe like the entire Industries, like a structure, that way my smart contracts, like that, like natively solves. A lot of that is streamline something today or just sounds laughably inefficient, but I think, if you think about monetization, like, what is crypto allow you to do is create a new screens of of economic value that you couldn't get through the screen door distribution channels that we had in the past. I've been thinking a lot about, you know, what are the interesting areas of the market. And

I think there are a bunch of different categories that are all distinct. But interrelated and I and I think it's it's at like the Creator economy. And if T's new favorite word and social tokens, those three things are a really fun designs base and like I think something really big is going to happen there. I think audius is really well position. Capture of that opportunity and how do you think about those components? So, I drew this analogy earlier to, to audience being kind of dislike

Gateway, or entry point for for many artists into web3. We see that similarly, on the fan side where we see artist wanting to kind of coalesced the relationships. They have with fans with an audience because they get access to all the data. Those fans are generating. They get the ability to push information to them in ways that other channels don't give them is the different medium for for engaging these folks in in different ways with respect to social tokens. I'm all of these Thief broader Trends within web 3 and direct engagement audience is the motive

distribution. For those things. We've already seen artist and and others. Experiment with things like are dropping. And if he is to their fans on audience because you can actually generate a list of like, what are all the wallets of all the people that are following me on audience. Right? All of that. The ice is there for four? They're picking and they're taking and similarly on the sofa a social Tok inside audio. We see being the conduit through which social tokens can reach fan and social tokens Can Have utility rate where you can actually a

gate access to content based on holding up a token, but also create and mechanisms remaining social tokens, right? We talked a lot about your plate and within audio, cease engagement engagement, mining mechanics workbook ownership, in the network, through the engagement, that they drive within the network. Similarly, as an artist. What if you could say, hey, if you're like the first thousand people to listen to, Bike rack, you get to earn one of my social token for free, right by your action of listening to that content. As a fan. You're actually

making that content more valuable. If you think about an end to Pi of value around that, could be grown up through minting and distributing social tokens to the folks that are engaging that way. And if he similarly, so we're super excited to see all of the great tools that other folks in. In the crypto, ecosystem are building for minting these things and giving them different unique characteristics. Qualities audience is the means of getting them into hands of of fans. And you'll, because we have the largest user base

among these web free products and the data access did, I mention four, posted be able to mind that. We've, we've very naturally assumes that role of a kind of a big conduit. Distribution of Bob of these, these novel Assets in the same way that we helped distribute content. So so yeah, we're super excited about all these things. And I think there's there's so much more coming down the pipe from the community that your where, where were yah, it's excitement for for all this

as you can, as you can probably tell. It's we're on the cusp of some really, really incredible things and obvious as the means of distribution, that's owned and operated by the the artist. And the fans that make it double. We are very excited about the position that we operate in the space right now. So, This is huge design space the social tokens native keys and like interesting things, right? If you're the first to listen to a stream or enhance the rights depending on who you are or how

much how big of a fan you are. Education has been a big challenge in crypto. I think it's probably been the biggest barrier to entry for most people. I don't know what the overlap is between people. Listen to music, but you're basically everyone, I people understand crypto. But like it's a, it's a fraction of what it will be. I think in the future, but my body is, today in Oakbrook. Do like, what was that look like for me? Yeah. It's so if, if you're on audience today, you don't need to know anything about crypto, right? When surveying or our users. These are crude estimates as the

sample. But I like eighty to ninety percent of our users didn't know that there was any crypto in audience. They came because they were finding cool music that they weren't finding elsewhere through the superfans of, you know, someone like a Mike Shinoda. I like I mentioned, you know, those super fans are hungry and excited to find all the content that that artist produces they can just sign up and start to use audius, you know, like any other web to product that they might be used to. The neat thing here is that As those users engage further and further

and stumble upon no difference different mechanisms within obvious. There's kind of a natural progression for them till I go deeper in and learn more about how to engage in these, what three contacts on the outside. They don't need to know anything about crypto, but I think we see the level of awareness of crypto on the artist side being being quite a bit higher than the fans. Awesome. So let's look to the future or let's say this is correct. In this pit, the convergence of crypto in the Creator economy, social tokens and sees all

these things work. I mean, what did the world look like in 5 years? I just look like in that scenario composability of all these tools in the opportunities to like combine them together and novel and and unique. And new ways will lead to artist of all shapes and sizes being How to say, hey like this is, I think this is you don't, this is where my fans are. This is how I'd like to to be able to engage them being able to assemble these things and in various ways to

allow them to go, do things like the fans that they know and have access to an audience, can be pushed, you know, opportunities to buy concert tickets in and do things like that. I think these relationships between artists and fans will be portable and usable across many different user experiences. But the vision for kind of the the economy around music that we see existing in the future as one of direct engagement between artists and fans that scales in a way, that's not been possible with with the tools that

exist today and and very excited to help manifest are part of that future. Are there nearly 100 applications now built on and around the audience ecosystem, you know, the the the bread and butter of all those new modes of Engagement are going to be coming from the community just like that remix competition high and my co-founder and unlike our our small team or not to be sitting in a room here coming up with all the all the different ways that that people can engage. Your tools are out there.

They're open source. They're open to everyone and and we're already seeing amazing creativity. Come out from folks wanting to wanting to build cool stuff and get it in front of people. I love it. I think that's an amazing world, and I'm super excited. We're super excited and proud of you for that. So, thank you for all your time and, and you're inside sand without, you know, we'll open it up for a couple minutes here for a Q&A questions.

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