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TOKEN2049 London 2021
October 8, 2021, Online, London, UK
TOKEN2049 London 2021
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The Internet of Money
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About the talk


About speakers

Itamar Lesuisse
Co-founder at Argent
Alex Mashinsky
CEO at Celsius Network
Bill Barhydt
Founder and CEO at Abra
Nimrod Lehavi
Co-Founder & CEO at Simplex

London-based entrepreneurial and international senior manager with strong experience developing blockchain, eCommerce, web and mobile services with extensive strategic background.

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Alex Mashinsky is an entrepreneur who has founded several notable technology firms in the United States. He founded Arbinet in 1996 as a commodity exchange for telecommunication companies to trade unused long-distance minutes. Mashinsky's other company, VoiceSmart, was one of the first firms to offer telecommunications switches to handle ordinary voice as well as Voice over IP call routing. Mashinsky later founded GroundLink in 2004 as a service to book an on-demand limousine and car services from a computer or smartphone. He was also the founder of Q-Wireless, which later became part of Transit Wireless. From 2014 to 2015, Mashinsky served as CEO of Novatel. He currently serves as CEO of the Celsius Network which is a CeFi lending platform operated by use of blockchain technologies. Mashinsky lives in New York City with his wife Krissy Mashinsky and 6 children.

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Serial entrepreneur, hacker, maker, geek, crypto head and utterly unfamiliar with the concept of “impossible”. Kicking off his entrepreneurial career in the 90’s as a self taught software developer, Nimrod transformed over the years to an experienced leader. A hacker at his core, Nimrod finds solutions to any new and unique challenge. After 15 years solving technical / business / product challenges for an extensive range of different and complex businesses and industries, Nimrod accidently stumbled upon the bitcoin white paper, and everything changed. Nimrod began looking for a safe and simple way to purchase bitcoin on his credit card, but no solution existed. So he decided to build it and in 2013 Simplex was born. As the founder and CEO of Simplex, Nimrod leads hundreds of employees throughout the world. Simplex continues to massively expand and evolve to enable the entire crypto ecosystem in growing to its potential. Nimrod is one of the industry OGs and is a board member of the Israeli Bitcoin Association, since its inception. Nimrod is a thought-leader and regular speaker at leading industry conferences, as well as an advisor to well-selected industry startups.

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Hi everyone. I was like he's going to start dancing in shopping bitconnect. But you know, so how everyone super excited to murder a police panel know, these two guys for a very long time, new acquaintances as well. You want to start with the introduction. Microprint directions dinner. My name is the founder and CEO at Avril been intact investing, Capital markets, crypto. Now, all together, probably for about 30 years, a well-known popular, crypto banking service operates in well, over 100 countries managing my

pictures. Now of assets, we provide trading high-yield accounts as well as lending for both retail and institutions. And we also run an incisional business, providing the same Services as well. It's America, founder of Argent. I'm busy here in London and Arjun. We with the other two years ago realizing people in creepy. Only in Clip 2. It was actually a very stressful experience that you could wake up in the morning with all your friend's wife from your wallet. And so we wanted to build, a

non-custodial experience would be highly secure that could work with that scale. Super simple for billions of users to use someday. We have hundreds of men on the line wallet in the shape of an iPhone and Android app and web users with 10K and two largest walleye. 12500 million-dollar so very secure form, small or large wallet. Great to be in London after two and a half years. So great to be here. And I hope everybody's loving this in person experience. Again versus Zoom Alex, mashinsky Celsius Network.

We I think we invented this thing of yield ride. The whole idea of paying yield and 28 billion under management, 1.1 million customers with cranking it up, right? Then going to a billion billion users, right? So that's what this is all about. Fantastic story. Alaska is stupid question, but I'm getting everybody's interested. What do you think about the price for? I leave right now, but where is it coming from? I know it's a stupid question, but Yeah, it look at me. We we actually were I'll give you the

technicals and the fundamental rights inside. I do both for a technical perspective. You can actually look at the charts is very simple McDonald's consolidation pattern looks like a Penance that's very standard extremely bullish phase when especially crypto which is a little bit different but basically what it says is you got this tension between profit-taking and strong hands coming in and we just came out of that multi-week actually multi-month in a kind of pennant flag pattern. This week. The crypto fundamentals are obviously everything, buy Bitcoin, right now, still 21 million

Bitcoin and we run in what we call a massive Supply shock in terms of fundamentals, which means that the amount of Bitcoin which has been leaving. The exchanges has pretty with the exception of a small time frame in late May early. June has more or less continued unabated since last summer meeting summer of 20, and there's just not enough it going to go around. And I think that the stock For model that everybody's looking at. It's going to break down next year and it's knocking it. We're not going to have given the same pullbacks like we did before and it's going to be a very different time

going forward for at least the top two or three cryptocurrencies. See what the ShakeOut looks like for the rest, but it's going to be super exciting. Still expect a lot of volatility because of all the leverage but it's going to be a super exciting few months for crypto. For sure. I like The Optimist, let's get this is that you need is to buy anything. A lot of Japan's out there to buy and that means we need to buy lottery today. Alex. Vale sings just a few weeks ago to remind, everybody. We were at twenty-nine thousand and there were a bunch of pundits, some different stages think telling you

they're going, we going to 15,000 and leave, maybe even ten thousand. So just shows you how quickly and now everybody's like, always going to a hundred thousand or $300. So I think the market already priced in ETFs and the market already priced in settlements organic layer and everything else going to cleaning out by it, by the end of October, and that's just a little bit irrational, exuberance. Right? So, I think, and I'll be tweeting about that about us. We visiting 29,000, some few months ago, and I got a lot of hate that Twitter without

ice ice. I think I said 29056, we hit 29,000 to 56. That was the low. Right. Now, we are going to stay in this level 55 to 63011 resistance there. A lot of people who bought coins at these prices. We're going to be selling them because they feel that this is their chance to recoup their money back, right? So so I think we're going to see if we can break it on high volume. We going to senior High's, we're going to hit a hundred thousand before the end of the

year, but then I would say it's fifty-fifty for going higher or if we going lower his dad, this amazing panel that we have no idea. Okay, great. I said we going to be a few weeks and we going to test if it's if you have high volume, if the watch the volume, not the price. If the volume is high, that means you're going higher, if the volume is low. Can you go to 63000 and you seem low volume? We're not going to stay there. We're going to break down. Okay, and I'll

do you guys as I don't know, if I think we should have been unbelievably cute newborn in the second row, right there who's been watching intently, since we got on stage. I think we should ask her because we may get a clear answer by the way. I'm 25 years of doing conferences. I have never seen that. It is well done. Seriously. So, what's the word? Where do you think it's going swimming? We're all up to me is because everybody here is if anything, otherwise, we would have

chosen a different vertical to work in. Where do you think it's going in terms of the the yielded the platforms are able to to Performance you compared to the regular Market Alex. Let's start with you this time. So we paid 860 million dollars in eel. Okay? To look at Barclays or Lloyds. They didn't pay that much money to their customers this year. Okay, so Celsius little Celsius is paying more yield than some of the largest banks. He's not because we're so good. It's because they don't pay any healed, right? So so so how many

people in the world are going to say? Yep. I want more yield, right? Busy every person on the planet. If they have any sense in their head, they're going to say, you know, what, we're going to take 10% of 20% of my money and move it over. Right? So the first kill app store of value b, b going, if they're still in value s killer app yield. That's eight billion. People that want to ride. The question is, how long is it going to take for us to create enough trust deposits? Trust deposit money deposit setup Comes First, Trust deposit. First, then money deposit. S

The Guild itself. Like we're paying 8.8% on stablecoin has nothing to do with whatever whatever you think you'll be cuz you create that deal 8.8% tells you how much money is missing in defy. See fine. So on right if it was 4% that means half of that as much money as much money is missing. Rights of the yield indicates the demand for stablecoin or the demand for Bitcoin and you should watch that very carefully, right? UCS lowering yield that tells you the demand for stablecoins going down or the missing amounts of stablecoin is going down. You

see you're going up that tells you that Bitcoin is going up because in most cases, people are boring, USB c, u s, d t to buy more Bitcoin, so all these things are actually leading indicators into what's happening. And again, we have a community of at 1.1 million people. I'm not telling you what's happening. The community's telling you what's happening. I'm just the mouthpiece choking on their behalf. So beautiful, you compare, the billions using the regular banking systems and the millions were using the these platforms are getting these skills. Do you

think if we refer to all that without it's just that the least a huge interest or you that you were able to pay really reflects this gap between millions and billions of users. Where do you say to going our world independent of the fact that Alex has done a great job paying more yield in the bank's? Our world is around of error, in terms of the number of people involved. That's the big problem. Right? So, if we get a billion people in the banking system, or the banks, basically start using, write our shared lending, practices to dinner, a deal with the other going to come down just

common sense. And so our advantage I think our shared advantages. We're still going to probably pay more of it back to the consumers than the banks will but of the backend we're doing the lending write the demand is not going to go up. Commensurate with the amount of money coming in so that remains to be seen in my opinion. What happens when the banking system comes in? But just because of the regulatory overhang, you know, the questions of, you know, what the security, what's not a security etcetera etcetera, but it's the last

Bastion the internet that hasn't been disrupted by, you know, the inner self write is is is banking and money and at some point the banks will either die or do it. Some of them will actually die. Some of them will try to buy their way in. I actually projectors companies in our space that will start by back. So I think I forget the opposite will happen. You'll probably see exchanges. Start looking to get permission to buy Banks. Maybe not in the US where The Regulators won't allow it, but in other countries for sure. How do you see them in your mortal is like a different? You're not actually

lending the money out, right? Ear connected to different mechanisms in their system. How do you how do you say it evolving from your side of the business? And if you want to, maybe I'll ever ate a bit more about the difference. It's really full access to defy. And so we meet with Mark tonight is for users what we observe now because you said Supermarket, so it's actually use on that people are seeking so we had ways of a lot of volume in the past and protocol a car Vehicle Impound. Right. Now, what we see is that it's taking so we could give you the wrong

site for sun. If you got more complex, if I project you could have been get to 78 per cent stake. King is the mechanic guy has more volume. They need to decrease. Exactly like you mentioned Fallon, D spiritual take more time. You can have a lot more validators. Because before I decree this, and then hire, Gilded of an unsubsidized. So and if I have all these protocols at lunch subsidized, so you'll farming, whatever you call it a long time, actually, because this notion of launching a new product, called a new product giving on their ship to the community of that

project means that you your boots from your product and there would be many more in the coming year. So I think it's, it's artificial in some way we could just sit, but they will always be in your project for this Saturday night. They're, they're already gross. Just interested to see you in the crowd. How many of you use them for me or are interacting with it? Alright, pretty impressive. How many of you are using? You know, you'll dabs like in Celsius? Okay. So for a minute, how many of you were doing both?

Nothing. I have one more question. How many of you planning to use the bank through their store will buy you or store your Bitcoin or for stablecoins? Wow, so many why why would you have security take them out? So what's your plans right now? What's your thinking about the recent evolution in the US? Evolution Wellness, like the recent events in the US Mass psychosis one-way ticket to London. So, I look, I'm sure yet. Alex has a strong opinion on this to Alex. Always think

that there's a lot more clarity in the US than people think there is in most areas, right? If you're holding crypto on behalf of someone else, a consumer in particular, that is a licensed requiring activity in almost every US state, the big exception being California. And in most cases that's regulated via money transmission laws. If you are doing derivatives, On on cryptocurrencies that are considered Commodities United States. That is a licensed requiring activity. You generally by the cftc, which is the sister organization to the SEC and we all know what the equations

are if you're doing things like security token. So so it's not like there's a huge surprise. I think the biggest question right now in most people's minds are, is there any there's areas where people aren't sure if something's a security or not, but that's been a question for a lot of businesses over the decades and some cases, The Regulators have decided in some cases, the courts have decided and we'll see if you know certain certain other companies lending practices. We actually do an issue with a few Tavern account through a Bank Trust. So I think we operate differently, but I think

there's no, there's no overhang in that area of what's what's a security? But other than that, there is a lot of clarity out. There's particularly in the US and more than more than I think most people, especially the media, or constantly asking me this question, actually. Don't know why. I never do my weird. We are overseen by 65 Regulators in the United States alone us in our our, our bank near partners, of course, but but that's that's that's a lot of regulators. You do a Lucy 2 setting each with all your platform. I mean, you're not actually in whole in possession of anyone. The funds. You

can tell we're in the right place at the right now. So if you look at your carry galatian, we are just the stuff to accompany you and give you an app you deal with it. We have no way to tell regulator on a regulatory impact overall. I would say better 12:30 on regulation. Even if it's a perfect, then gray area where every year, while waiting for the newspaper to see on your non-custodial wallet in it. I think we have a few years. I had, I don't know how they will ever figure out that way to to regulate, non custodial Services. It's very tricky fan, technical perspective.

And so, we have a few years and we're really enjoy being We could eat the business. So, so Alex, how do you see the Devolution of the segment of the market with with evolution of the market or in Layman words? Where can I, when can I start taking my test? And so, I think I wasn't joking. That was a 24th. I think in Hong Kong, right? We were talking about died in 2018 and we filed with the SEC voluntarily in 2018. I think we were the first crypto company to do that. Everybody else was going on when she is

so crazy. You going to wake up the bear? Why you filing with the SEC? Well, we haven't received any letters from the sentence, right? Because Regulators want to know what you doing. How are you doing and why you doing it? And so on? So the more communication you have with them the better same thing in the u.k. Right. Same thing with fincen and all the other agencies the bill was talking about. So Look, I don't think there is enough Clarity. There's some clarity but there's not enough Clarity. And everybody around the world is waiting for the associate to wake up and tell us what

the rules are right, though. I don't think that since he's trying to squash crypto or slow down crypto or anything like that. I think they were not collecting a lot of information from a lot of companies. They want to show who are The Bad actors that telling you very clearly. We swing these guys between these guys and they're going to show you who are the good actors, right? So and when those two are clearly determined all the companies, all the crypto companies doesn't matter. If you are calling yourself, D, file sephi, or any five you going to have to choose which Camp you going to be a

long ride because uniswap didn't think you just walked out there just a software company and I got a subpoena from the SEC right saying, hey, Come over here. And I don't know if you can get a subpoena from the SEC. You're not really defy because I have somewhere to send us a peanut. I understand. The point is a regulated, doesn't care what you call yourself. So completely. I don't have an address. That's not the point. The point is, is it what I'm trying to say is that there's no conflict between being full?

And I think you're saying the same thing. There's no conflict between being fully compliant, and being a crystal company. And if you guys are planning to their project or anything else, don't try to pretend like the laws, don't apply to you. Or you going to put yourself in some jurisdictions that have coconuts and because of that, not nobody can come after you. So don't get it gonna snow on Big Mouth, coconut know. It's you know, I'm talking about a specific company. They thought that that was a winning strategy, you know. Back to my question

is for jpegs. When when the when the industry always moves faster than Regulators. Can we start using the value? That is kind of stuck. In the end of these are their lending platforms that will let you use in a teas as collateral. Now. The question is just look up. Prime, broker will traditionally take a yacht a mansion with the cartoon. I own a villa, a mansion that a yacht, they'll take all of those things as collateral today. They want a crypto which is more liquid than any of those. Any of them doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But that's the equivalent is already happening with entities,

their sights. Now that I've figured out how to price certain cryptocurrencies. Start certain amenities. And as a result, I'm guessing the all TVs are pretty low. I have really gone into detail with the lift. If it's not the crazy, but they will take them as collateral for loans and it's coming, we would love to do it. If we could figure out how to accurately price the price it because we don't know what the risk is yet. And a lot of the nfc's. It's actually the opposite of what you said before. It's not like any of these are creating demand for aetherium as the price goes up. People perceive

funny money to spend and a lot of the overhang right now is going to end if he's just like it went to ico's five years ago. Our collectors into crypto right. Now. These are crypto people getting two are collecting. Lots of disposable Krypton come by. I would say these are crypto. People practicing flipping. They're not collecting the duration of holding on NF thesis, decrease not increased over the last few weeks. I think look wait. We are you know, it's the opposite of what we

were come in, right? So our strategy from day, one is being. If you a long-term thing carry, you know, you thinking these coins are going to go out, then don't spend them. Don't buy anything with them borrow against them right in the yield on it. Cuz anyone, anyone here happy with any Bitcoins of ever spent on anything, anyone here anyone here would like to reverse all those transactions, and just bore against the opposite, right? So, so these are really simple assumption. If you really in this room and you believe in Bitcoin or you believe in the serum, then why you

spending it? It's that simple. So all in a particular all interested buyers are not slippers. I mean your but the same way that's a lot of relative to bitcoin, right. To some things that you can actually measure how many people here have like. And if you don't like two bucks in it, he's okay, not so many. Okay. And then, did you bite with the other crypto with crypto? Okay. So this very hard to buy whiskey at the corner. Of course, it's look again. It's a two and a half trillion

dollar house of class. It's not about and if these kind of things is like the slideshow, the next 2 trillion dollars are going to be mostly the top 10 or 15 coins, right? That's where the increasing Valley is going to come from. So, so today a lot of people thinking, you know, I'm going to jump from this bus to this Buzz because this bud's goes a little bit faster and then I'm going to jump back on the other train because that's the name of traits list stuff. When you calculate how many fees Coinbase,

the tiny coinbase compared to naz Naz that can the New York Stock Exchange makes more money than the NASDAQ and the New York Stock Exchange put together and it's because all of you guys are feeding them doing transaction back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Now, if your heart, hold all of that money would still be coins in your wallet. More coins. Take a loan Dollar Loan, spend the dollars. Don't spell the coin. Don't trade everybody. Thought they were smart. Mean, we're both coming over or not. When I'm free Levin percent, you woke up. How'd you feel that morning when a

scent like a genius or like an idiot? So that's what I'm talkin about. Just stopped trading bottle. Do short. People huddled there any steel 50/50? Amazing. I love it. So. Looking even more into the future into the metaverse that has recently, you know, became something more of a topic to discuss. How do you say it evolving into that end? And again, as easy as you said, you liked that the actual problem with any of these is, how do you price the met? Anybody here may be working on

pricing and if he's like, all right thing, that's interesting to me that is pricing. And if these on the independent data sources or just like, yeah, just like a chain link, and the problem is that, I know a lot of people, cuz I've seen this with too many pawns that sell the same thing to each other, just to move up the price and they hope that some idiot is going to come and give them their East for a price. That is five times the real price. So we don't wonder why we want. We want the market that is real Market. That represents True Value stability, right? I

think it's good for all of us and and when people get burned, all we do is we sending One more customer back to the banking system every time we born a customer because the over leverage or we sold them at Sheetz, mine or or they overpaid for a punk. All we doing is losing another customer in this revolution out. If you think that Krista already won the war, let me tell you tryna right now that did show you on has more customers than all of you put together about 12% of all Chinese. People already have a digital wallet using digital you want and they have embedded

1.4 billion customers. So just because on the internet era, we won with the open-source, the platform doesn't mean this time. It's going to happen again. If we keep losing customers to keep losing followers. We going to lose all of our coins are going to be worth nothing. That's what it's take. It's not like a little thing. So instead of everybody's trying to make money a little bit of money on somebody else. Let's bring the next billion people into crypto. That's what that's what the targets will be for all of us. The making money in. The long term is

really going to matter that much. I mean, obviously it's great today and I agree that you have a yield has become a killer app for crypto. But look, this is the fastest growing technology adoption in human history.. Nothing from a macro perspective. I I was traveling 50 countries, my Netscape days building at 1.00 didn't sleep. The more the more I didn't sleep the more money we made it was directed before. So that's how crazy was. This is going faster and you're going to see the tokenization of everything. You know what, we're calling the metaverse right

now. We barely know what we're talking about, and it's going to involve to integrate the next generation of a R & N. V R & N, N gaming, and banking. Not to mention institutions in a way that we haven't even figured out yet. You know, that MIT Engineers are are working on now. And so the next 10 years is going to be the application layer on top of a lot of these protocols that we just haven't even seen yet. And it's just in case I agree. It's not about trading, it's going to be about you know, basically making right? These protocols work for us as if we'll ever try to picture

of the division of how do you say before in my from now? How old would then the next billion people join? I mean, it's it's it's me at everything from games to the new type of banks, you know, which is, which is what we're building to digital media collections, to me has a big load of game. That's how I look at it. Right? It's just a game that doctor who uses the something that has real tangible fungible value than what the price. It is. Just an example of where this is all going to entertainment is going to be integrated into this world, right? I wouldn't be

surprised if we have kind of token base pay per view, kind of applications that go into developing markets, that can't pay a $10 subscription to to Netflix, right? But in the aggregate that made me more money. So, we took money from Foxconn. A few years ago. I was in the board out of Julian's here again doing Hardee's on the chairman of our, the New Foundation that that we're partnered with. He ran a company that was basically providing the solar lanterns into homes in Africa, which had cellular connectivity and they use in peso to pay for the lights. And the, you make the payment be in

peso your lights. Go on. You don't do this. Now is used in millions of homes in in in rural Africa and in some cases, the first electricity they've ever had. So the reason is worth in Kenya and the surrounding countries was, was they had that pain of Jekyll there's places all over the world where they want to do this, but they can't because there's no way to pay. Right? And I think that the internet of money is that for the two billion people that aren't reaping the benefits of this new economy today and that's what's exciting to me. That's when I think of the future of banking and

tokenization of these things, getting them access entertainment, the game. Schooling tube to the basics of what are electricity and having the ability to pay so that it's not the government's doing this for budding entrepreneurs, which I would definitely trust more than local corrupt. Governments is super exciting to me, do I owe? So I would you mention, I think 10 years, I think things are getting much closer than any. I think, three years ago. I would have said it might take 10, 20 years. If you look at what's missing at the end of first, let me know. If you see, we are leaving. This is the

story of the web all over again. He's a new layer on the web. So it's all about being open and duration. Last. I knew you would have way more Innovation on the permission as Network. Then you would have on the permission Network and that's why you need while at the tunnel pistol jail. So people can access any service they want and not have a gatekeeper who can decide. But today the past two years. I would have told any new user is going to come basil or going to tell Sia to you cannot Crystal. You find yourself and that's why. I mean they will never be a future where we have a

good body found in Chelsea. We're a billion people or more at some kind of secret were there to pass receipt phrase and if I have your secret about your money, and if you lost your secret, sorry, you lost all your savings that won't happen. And that's really what we were upset about for the past two years at Elgin, but no, the next phase of the problem is okay. With something secure simple, and it cost $50 to take any action. So again, we're back to we should use celsius. I believe it's pretty. You don't have gas for you. That everything is smooth, but that take the technology is coming.

Now in the room people like stock where I roll up to the ocean on top of a pyramid out there today, and they are they would have called in the next six to nine months to be the full Flex solution, but suddenly you have experienced, that can be super take care of what you have to take peanuts in a non-custodial that you would have with your bank. I was just pissed at the end. You have no super Loca and scale. I'm not sure. We'll be able to get a billion during the next year. A billion people in next year, but We are getting there and then you information less than the Innovation

is coming. And so any anyone with a phone in any sitting in the village, can tell me I have access to that same same Financial system so I can give it to you or to the definition and be there. Then we need to be there. I hope that that's when we're going to happen. But I did voice over IP, right 30 years, 30 years, almost done, the varsity, in the in a few months just over half of the population is using voice over IP. What's a b a s for free? Why wouldn't a billion people? Use it? 30 years just over 50%. Here. We talked about all the money in

the world, right? So it listens not just about somebody opening a wallet. It's about somebody open your wallet and then moving all their money over just because I have a wallet with $100 in it, doesn't mean that I moved over. From the banking system. So my point is is going to take much longer than we think and because what the fight is over is all the money in the world and that's what's going to take a very long. Of time. So so we might have a billion wallets, but we may have only 1% of the total AUM and we're going to be fighting over again. Trust. The fight is over,

trust trust the security, trust for execution, trust for storage and so on so on that's good. Take a very long time. The banking system and seven hundred years Head Start against the 700 years since the medicis in Italy, right? So that's what we fighting over. So it will take time to have all the money of the world. But for me, the fight is over you making useful today. Crypto is not solving problems for many people. Do you think you can argue old? You can use the card for the people.

The new investment. They make a lot of money is great. We're not really in the lesbian tomorrow. We have an event on Saturday, come meet, the Celsius. Every one of them will tell you the story of how they change their life. Not just didn't solve the problem. It changed their lives because it can make life-changing money at the same way that people buy a Nifty and met with people with the name of 300,000 alarm this morning when you see a light at the end of the tunnel. When you know that you have a path toward Financial Independence when you know, you can

pay your bills cuz I might become a millionaire. It's about knowing that you have your past because most people today, this baby over there doesn't have that path because again, you, you can work two jobs and you're not going be able to afford a home and yell to 5% will not give you the path. Well, that's what is 8.8.? No. Bruce and you can, that's the whole point. And we know that in Bear Market would be 0.5 and one that was 12% during the bear market. So I literally just

meant, is this. Okay. So I'm telling you this for 4 years to offer, you still offering more than anybody else. Our rate started at 4 and a half percent went up all the way to 12. Now. It's a point eight. So my point is, everybody along the way, told me. How is it going to go down? Because well, now we have 25 million. Wait until you have a billion. Okay. We got a really this stupid to not have money to put in, Saving the average person, even in a country. Like, the you ask. Yes, that's because their credit cards are eating them alive. Charging people 24%. If you have to change

your behavior, you have to get rid of your debt, and then you have to start saving, you don't start saving while you paying 24% to your bank. That's lunacy. So let's get the question is has been said, how the hell do we bring the next billion people again? Should it be artists voice activation of what's happening in the west with developing markets, has been unbelievably successful test for us. We have almost 2 million registered users. Now, we have people with eight figures of dollars in there,

Abra accounts, and we have poor farmers in the Philippines, Guatemala Ecuador with $110 in their account. And I answer a lot of questions. My team does actually do it myself. Sometimes at night on the weekends from customers on Twitter and it's not the people with eight figures, sending me questions on Twitter. It's the people in the Philippines and like I said, India, you know, In Dubai using Abra to store money and then using stablecoins to send money to India. And then cashing out. There are cash teller networks. They're not using bank wire has like a wealthy users. It's

the same exact app. I've never seen any outside of the web itself and WhatsApp right for communications and information retrieval tools. I've never seen anything like it, and this is what drives me at. This point is, is that democratization of something in the financial system that the banks have no incentive none to work on their disincentivize, it cost so much money to onboard a consumer in the Philippines, in the banking system. They don't want a $5 deposit. It's it's, it's not like we can't afford to take it. They literally don't want it cuz if you call them they've

they've lost money on you. And and so I think that's how we get to a billion to answer. Your question is to keep pushing the envelope. On the little guy who is, is a gal, who is out of the financial system today, but sees that, you know, in This Global movement towards decentralisation, which is what we've been on, since the PC and internet in the smartphone that this is the phase of that where I can actually store money. I can put my money to work, I can send money and I don't have to trust the government in the bank's necessarily who didn't want me in the first

place. When we went, when we hit that $29,256 just over a million customers, a million people who were long on exchanges. Right, leverage long. Does liquidated? How many of those people do you think of stealing Crystal? So I agree with everything Bill. The saying, we need to get a new customers, but if you keep bleeding millions of people on the back and people keep falling off your bus, how you going to get there? So it, when we going to get there much faster if we stopped bleeding. So, the funny

thing is that, you know, who's shutting all that down The Regulators there, since he's, the one who forced FDX and coinbase to stop offering 100x leverage. It wasn't me or you write, we still consume those products for no reason. So sweet again. This goes back to have seen this movie with voice of Ivy. Bill is seeing it with, you know, all the stuff that he was working on doing the same. Of time, so, We telling you that this is not afraid of completely that we going to win automatically. Okay, and every one of us doesn't bring 10 people and educate

them about saving and educate them about not taking leverage and about yield in about how to be, just how to have good habits, right? And not bad habits. We just not going to get there. It's that simple. I know that you don't need something, you scared that will bring a billion. You can it's really a 1000. You scared. It's ringing a million. You can have still. Maybe you'll bring a hundred million of a good game. Usually 10 to 100 million, probably more than remittance another hundred million. That's all you'll get there.

And that's how we go to a billion. And how do you say in in that cuz 50% of it. But how do you say my Sprint? It's a bit more for Adventures. So Arjun started, as we want it to be able to eat without the bank. It was super simple. You could, you wouldn't see gas. You wouldn't see anything. No difference between staking out, getting your innards and then in a centralized space for my in Waverly and then what happened is gas started, increasing slightly and so we realized our user was $100. $500 would be pissed because it's $50 to remove your settings. And so we refocus so much

more advanced users. And that's why we have these wallet was million-plus. And that's why I became a smart and then know what's happening and we are running the town as we speak. In a few weeks will be like on there to west of the needles action. While reducing costs by 98 per cent to $0.20 instead of $5,200 for these transactions. Now we can go back to users, one run directly to their to. They can have yelled and he's unstable, and you'll be able to trade it's affordable. I need to get cheaper over time and now we can go back to hiding all that can fix it. It's not a technical challenge

anymore. I've been stalled. Now, we have to go back to the roots and really making it super simple for for users who want to take some questions from the audience. Anybody asks questions. Hello, as Alex said, security is perhaps the most important hurdle to pass and yesterday, Bill said that address is the safest way to earn the yield which implies suboptimal practices by others in the space. I'm curious what those are and and it's a follow-up question. Do you think the youth reflect the risks or is that a security are the trash that you see?

So when I feel that when I say that, we are the safest place to our deal today. It's it's relative to the fact that I know, we're doing everything possible from a risk management perspective that we can possibly think of, right? So, I think I'm the only person to space. It was a photographer for what I got large wheeler agency. And also ran a fixed-income portfolio at Goldman Sachs, as a client. And so, you'll be able to Deal with both worlds is very, very hard. And so we've, we really have spent a lot of time, money and testing building. I think I risk management business with,

within a bird that is, is fantastic in the best in the space. And so, you know, we we forgot on a lot of opportunities, right? When when everybody would end in in the yield space was chasing, the, the art play on the great race. Can, you know, that the degree guide I explicitly told my team. This is speculation, right? You're already taking speculative risk holding crypto. That's not the purpose of yield, right and end. So I think at least that's out. I'm not going to speak for everyone else in the space. But that's the perspective that we've had since before we even launched

the product and we spent a couple of years working with our thanks partner. We could have lunch the product much much sooner, right? Using our trading partners, on your money, transmission, licenses, and we explicitly chose not to do that and we delay the launch for quite a while, working with banking partners. Lawyers to basically work through the compliance processes for doing it that way, while we were also extending the risk management capabilities of the company. And there's a lot of people in our space. Don't know the questions to ask from a risk management perspective.

And you know, I like to see resumes all the time, you know, from from people in the space and when I dig in, they don't know. And I think it's going to take a concerted efforts. It is just my opinion. I don't work for all of the company. So, I don't know what the facts are. But that's going to take a concerted, concerted multi-year, effort to put the right Miss risk management practices across the entire industry. And we're trying our best to do our parts to be at, you know, that at least a single Steward of that. Alex thing, we have a question over there. So we have the

biggest Target on our back, right? 828 billion. I can tell you. Every hacker in the world is saying hello. Let me just go and pack Celsius, you know, they have the most money. If you get into our accounts, you're not going to find any coins there because our business is to lend them out. So the risk is not protecting. Of course, it's great to protect and have the most security. I can tell you. We have the safest wall. It's right. That everybody can just say that. The question is, how many times did you get hacked? And you still have all the coins and we're giving to you, right? So I can tell

you that we lend out. We have hundreds of thousands of loans, right? With institution. The risk is not, can you keep them safe in your wallet? The risk is are these institutions or changes or defy going to return those coins to the counterparty risk is the risk? Right and Celsius has zero in four years longer than anyone else. No one here has done this before years. 00, institutional basically situations where they either didn't return. The coins did not pay the interest or had any kind of default with thousands of

margin calls where they have to give us more money or give us more collateral but zero default write. And again, we show that we give it all that information. We have with no proof of community where you can go into the blocked in and verify everything I'm saying by yourself, even if you're not a Celsius customer, you can go in all the data is public and you can see all the transactions, not going to tell you who the counterparties are. You can see all the transaction verify everything I'm saying. So your bank is never going to give you that right? Try to call your bank and say, I want to

know what using my deposits for. I want to know who you letting them to did. They return the money and I want to know what the morning. I'm 1% of the pool. I want to know if I'm learning the same thing like Alex or somebody else, right? That's the transparency that we need to have in this industry. I know it's the way of the smallest Target on our backs. We cannot, we cannot take your money. We cannot freeze your money, a bad actor. Government cannot force us to freeze your fun while they can with most people on the stage. And it's, it's real through for us. That thing,

long-term users were probably not care, but it's Reese about corned beef versus, don't be evil. And that means, we can evade, we can move super fast. We're not sitting on billions of dollar money, where every, every actually it's all about the process Intel processors Intel resume in our case. The code is on the blockchain. Once it's there we can tamper with it. We can even upgrade your wallet and that's pretty, that's been no approach. Okay, we have 52nd. I don't think we can actually make it make a statement. 50/50. Thank you very much.

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